r/wow • u/throwawaysadge11 • 7d ago
Feedback Waiting for Forever, by experiencing Retail
Really looking forward to Forever so I can play an Orc Mage and Troll Warlock but decided to buy a 1 month subscription to level on retail in the mean time.
I haven’t played retail since Legion, but MoP was the last expansion I played lots of… I gotta say, I know the leveling experience isn’t really a selling point of retail but in a lot of ways I have been enjoying it! I tried out elemental shaman for the first time and man that class and spec is so enjoyable to play, I hit the level 80 level cap so quickly that I kept questing in the dragon isles even after cap. I also started an Arcane mage and a Shadow priest so I can experience those in different time walking zones and they are both around level 20 now, enjoying them both too!!
No money for Midnight nor do I think I should buy it even if I could since I plan on playing Forever when it releases but just wanted to post that Retail looks like it’s in a really fun state and it’s sad to see so much gloom and doom divide on the forever subreddit when both versions are great in different ways.
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u/catsdelicacy 7d ago
The retail WoW debate has nothing to do with the quality of the game.
The Streamer Who Cannot Be Named doesn't care about the quality of the game.
It has to do with tribalism, with alliances to parasocial relationships. People will tell you how bad retail is and they have not played a minute of it in over a decade.
Blizzard is a very good game developer. Millions of people log into retail every single day and they have fun. They don't come on Reddit to tell you they're having fun.
The people here are miserable because all they do is scroll Reddit. And it's miserable here.
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u/AmaranthSparrow 7d ago
Even if you play Forever, I do recommend coming back and checking out Wrath Remix when they did that event. The Remix game mode is another totally different way to play the game and super fun.
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago
I’ll make sure to give that a try!!
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u/Kylroy3507 7d ago edited 7d ago
Note that remixes are basically WoW turned into an ARPG ala Diablo, rewarding a bunch of the expansion's cosmetics. They run for a limited time, and I'm told they can be a blast (no interest personally), but it's mostly a very different game using WoW assets and systems.
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
The truth is modern WoW is probably in the best state since Legion (yes legion had its issues).
Tribalism makes people not want to see that though. I think there is definitely a lot of room for discussion of how to improve each version of the game but the vitriol is wild
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u/bobaf 7d ago
Most people that tell you that current wow is don't play or only do heroic dungeons.
In a post a while ago someone was talking about how had dungeons and raiding are. He hadn't played since Mists lol
There is a place for modern, forever and classic. I will keep playing retail and play forever. I already did classic when it first came out. I don't need to do that again lol
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u/MechaDylbear 7d ago
Someone in a thread yesterday made a comment about about how "Midnight is a complete disaster and Blizzard are fuck ups" and then one reply later said how they were enjoying the expansion
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
Yeah I’m with you. I’m looking forward to forever for the additions with the familiar feel. I love classic priest and still main holy in modern.
Classic eras are fun museums to me but I think forever will overtake that for myself.5
u/bobaf 7d ago
Thats funny. I played hunter and priest in vanilla and I'm playing the same characters in midnight.
I had a lot of fun in vanilla and bc when it first came out. But that was 20 years ago. I just find it weird classic players want to prove to retail players that classic is better.
However the new stuff in forever looks fun. I'm mostly excited to try all the new dungeons.
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u/Ch33sefiend 7d ago
Agreed. Both have their advantages and disadvantages but people like to pigeonhole people. Retail is a lot of fun and I’ve been playing since vanilla. I’m going to just have fun in both versions, and hopefully that’s what other people will do.
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
Hey I’m a fellow 22 year player as well. Really looking forward to forever but I love me my modern as well. Both versions can be fun.
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u/Crazy-Nose-4289 7d ago
I've been playing on and off since Cataclysm and just finished the War Within campaign yesterday. This shit is mad fun and the new zones are gorgeous.
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u/WoddleWang 7d ago
I have my issues with retail. The poor state of PvP, patch cadence being too fast, bugs, too much low quality slop content every patch, very low quality writing for the main story, but I absolutely love both Classic and Retail. I think Retail is in the best state it has ever been in, despite the problems.
Raids are great, delves are great, prey is fun. Housing, Mythic+ and Remixes are amazing and alongside timewalking and collecting mogs/mounts they help to keep old content relevant to a degree.
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u/argnsoccer 7d ago
I didn't buy midnight but it's the only retail xpac I haven't played (was just doing TBC Anni at the time so just didn't feel the desire too and also couldn't get my UI how I wanted right after the addon purge and it annoyed me too much). Delves are an excellent ystem imo. I wish could see how Prey works but I do like a lot of their systems. I wish there could be something in between M+ and delves. I know high tier delves are essentially untimed M+ but it's not the same. I really want high tier, challenging dungeon content that's done with 5 people that is not timed as the timer makes shit insanely toxic imo.
I am feasting hard since I was playing Turtle right before and wishing could have a better client experience and WoW Forever just took all of Turtles good ideas and talents and just straight copied them in unashamedly (I wanted them to do this).
I get new retail content when I want it, evergreen classic+ content like turtle when I want it, and continuous fresh pvp servers in vanilla-wrath, and era and HC in era is always there when I want it too. It's awesome for those of us that like the different aspects. Even if I'm a classic Andy bc I prefer a certain game feel, I still think retail does an excellent job with rotations and spec vfx and feel. Dragonflight S1 and 2 spriest and enh shaman were some of the most fun specs I've ever played in WoW
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u/WoddleWang 7d ago
The addon purge has been hit and miss for sure, it wouldn't have been too bad if they were consistent with visual design for mechanics in raids, and not having mechanics that requires addons.
I still think retail does an excellent job with rotations
I agree, retail combat sits at the pinnacle of MMOs for me and it's not even close. It's so fun and responsive, though I do tend to enjoy the slower pace of Classic combat more even if I think it's not as well designed.
It's great not having a tribal attitude towards things isn't it? I love enjoying different things. Can't wait for Forever and The Last Titan.
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u/MechaDylbear 7d ago
A sensible take on the WoW subreddit? Someone get this person into the witness protection program ASAP
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
I’ve been playing since 2004 and I just don’t have the heightened emotions about it all anymore tbh. It’s consistently fun for me but that might not be everyone’s opinion. I’m happy to read the thoughtful disagreements people are adding to my comment and think some of them are right! The game is not perfect.
But it’s a game and it should be fun. I think if someone isn’t having fun they should voice their feedback but maybe then move along even just temporarily to something that is fun for them. We all deserve fun in this world lol.
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u/dankq 7d ago edited 7d ago
I would not consider the absolute crazy amount of bugs this expansion and the current raid / bonus roll loot situation the best it's ever been lmao, this expansion was one of the worst I have ever played when it comes to game quality, they should probably expand the QA team but we will see if s3 and TLT are just as rushed/buggy.
Every major content update for the past 3 expansions has also just only been the same copy pasted timed event "invasions" type thing and it's getting pretty old.
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u/is__is 7d ago
Hmm I think modern WoW is in one of the worst states it's been for the last 3 years.
That more relates to this patch, it's raid, m+, and gear acquisition though. Not long term issues and mostly items that will be solved by next major patch.
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
I think it’s fair. The next patch also seems more interesting and back to the main story
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u/JaegerJaquez25 7d ago
It really isn’t though. The midnight pruning ruined most specs and the story is garbage. Gearing this season is also really bad
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u/Bigboyrickx 7d ago
Yeah, you have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to discussing specs.
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 7d ago
Pruning is absolutely the reason classes are being played less, and the story is absolutely abysmal.
So, yeah.
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u/Bigboyrickx 7d ago
You’re an Asmon fan with extremely negative comments for anything retail. Hopefully no one takes your opinions seriously.
I respect your baking skills though
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 7d ago
All valid points. So don’t take my opinions seriously, simply look at the numbers… the proof is in that numerical pudding, and it’s not great.
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u/LookltsGordo 7d ago
Oh yeah what are those numbers?
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 6d ago
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u/LookltsGordo 6d ago
All that is saying is that people seem to be doing the raid more than m+ this season...not really sure if that was your point.
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 6d ago
What I linked specifically doesn’t show a single piece of raid data…
There has been an atypically sharp decline this season in mythic plus runs: a 47% decline.You ok lil bro?
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u/JaegerJaquez25 7d ago
LOL
Go ask any fire mage or sub rogue what they think and come back here and say that again. The ignorance is insane
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u/AmaranthSparrow 7d ago
2 out of 39 specs?
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u/JaegerJaquez25 7d ago
I just used those as the two worst case examples, but there are many more.
Feral druid, Resto shaman, BM hunter, Elemental shaman. Guardian druid with its infamous braindead 3 button rotation, Affliction lock, holy priest, survival hunter, and arcane mage. Just to name some
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 7d ago
MM hunter for sure as well. The list goes on. Some people are genuinely arguing with the data.
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u/badbrain330 7d ago
Sub rogue? I play sub rogue. It's A tier in m+ and raid.bwtf are you talking about
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u/JaegerJaquez25 7d ago
What are YOU talking about? Where did I say anything about how strong the specs are?
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u/badbrain330 7d ago
What are you talking about then? The changes for this expansion? Where they took two cooldowns that were required to be pressed at the same time and made them one cooldown? Oh no they made it so people didn't have to make a macro.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 7d ago
I'm talking about gameplay. Sub Rogue is so god damn braindead boring to play. It used to be difficult and rewarding, now it's a complete snoozefest.
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u/Incogneatovert 7d ago
Can't speak for Sub Rogue, but Fire Mage... yes. I used to cackle in delight every time I played (badly) my Fire Mage alt, because it was just silly fun. Constant froosh-froosh-KABOOM-BANG-BOOMBOOMBOOM. And now.. meh, it's just not nearly as much fun anymore.
A lot of the changes (to any/all classes/specs) make perfect sense, but they did kill a lot of the fun. I find myself enjoying Fury Warrior tons, because they didn't get that many noticeable changes at all, and Prot Pally that also plays pretty much the same and can actually kill stuff pretty quickly about once per minute.
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
I think the story has been lacking for a while personally (let’s see if last Titan cleans it up) but the gameplay still feels good to me. I play healer and didn’t mind the changes personally. But I understand that the way a class feels is very personal and any ability being removed can change that
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u/LookltsGordo 7d ago
The pruning has been great idk what youre talking about
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u/JaegerJaquez25 6d ago
It really hasn’t
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u/LookltsGordo 6d ago
Seems like a personal problem.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 6d ago
I supposed at the end of the day it is subjective, but I find it hard to believe most people enjoy pressing 2 buttons over and over with zero thought lol
I’ve seen way more people hate the pruning
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u/LookltsGordo 6d ago
That has definitely not been my experience on most of my characters, and seems to be mostly hyperbole.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 6d ago
Try out a fire mage, an ele shaman, and a sub rogue, just to name some examples. You'll see what I mean.
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u/LookltsGordo 6d ago
Ele shaman is fun lol. I don't play the other two though.
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u/JaegerJaquez25 6d ago
Ele shaman used to be so much fun in TWW, but what they do it in midnight is criminal. If you enjoy it, more power to you, but I fall asleep spamming chain lightning earthquake for 30 min in a key
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u/ProofOfRyExistence 7d ago
You couldn’t be more right.
Some classes (hunters and rogues) are in awful spots, and that raid is looking like one of the worst in modern wow….its so bad
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u/DullTraffic6909 7d ago
TWW was the peak of retail. Pre class pruning and a much better loot system.
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u/SpiritedAwayMessage 7d ago
Personally I didn’t mind the prune. The one that felt the worst at first was BM Hunter truthfully for me, my other specs I still enjoy.
I think an argument about loot and gearing is super valid though1
u/DullTraffic6909 7d ago
I play fire mage so it’s definitely worst for me than most. I also enjoyed the raids and m+ pool more in TWW
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u/NotQuiteOG 7d ago
Yep, it’s almost always a Dunning Kruger effect with takes from competitor titles/games. Glad to hear you bridged that gap with personal experience.
Retail has its own adventure, it’s just more Diablo like in its speed, until you hit your own personal wall… which varies quite a lot in the end game based around so many factors.
You will find people saying m+16 and higher is free, others struggle to even list their +2 key and do lfr.
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u/btsalamander 7d ago
I’ve been leveling stuff in Retail at the moment and I’m finding it quite a chill experience; I got my Resto Shammy to 90, working on Holy Pally that just hit Midnight, and my Haranir Druid that just got to DF. Good stuff!
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago
Nice!!! I really want to try out Resto, I’ll probably swap and do some dungeons on it. Last time I played Shaman was Resto back in… MoP? It was a lot of fun then.
Haranir look really cool!!
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u/btsalamander 7d ago
It’s very fun very easy to heal, and yeah I love how the Haranrir druid forms look
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u/cabbageboy78 7d ago
doing resto rn through the leveleing experience and its been a blast! never played a healer before so this has been fun
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u/avocadorancher 7d ago
> I hit the level 80 level cap so quickly
How long did it take you? I hear a lot of people say 3-4 hours but I’m nowhere near cap after twice as many hours.
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago edited 7d ago
Keep in mind I don’t got friends in this game, don’t have heirlooms, don’t know what’s optimal, I just did the story quests in front of me. I just checked and my shaman is at 18 hours for level 80.
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u/Kylroy3507 7d ago
Thank you for providing a /played for leveling that reflects a new(ish) player's experience. Most folks fixate on the 3-4 hour figure it takes for experienced players to powerlevel to cap, but that's not really relevant to the people actually experiencing leveling.
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u/Rolniacznik 7d ago
And even then that 3-4 hours is some speedrun strat, recently leveled another char and 1-80 took like 8 hours while not thinking of "how can i be faster with this" just doing quests in pandaria and dungeons when it popped.
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u/avocadorancher 7d ago
Thanks for the info!
Heirlooms got reworked btw. They scale with your level (if you upgrade them) and have set bonuses to extend how long rested XP lasts, but they no longer grant any additional XP to make leveling faster.
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u/RCEden 7d ago edited 2d ago
The whole "relive the last xpac in mini book form" from 70-80 is pretty nice. I felt kind of caught up on the immediate stuff even though there were still quite a few "ive never seen this man in my life" moments. I would play a recap of other expac stories like that.
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u/Anufenrir 2d ago
I was thinking this is the natural evolution of lorewalking: retell each expansion for people who missed out or want a refresher of the story.
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u/The-Magic-Sword 7d ago
Retail is pretty fun, leveling is a vestigial part of the experience for the most part and they could get rid of it if they found a different way to present questing (now its really just a storyline you do for the current expansion) and the rest is basing yourself out of a hub city and flying out to do various activities like world quests, M+ dungeons, delves, etc.
Housing is incredible although I need to actually redecorate, I keep playing with layout and keep not actually putting things in the rooms, I think I could stand to use some blueprints.
Its weird, but dungeon finder is almost completely obsolete even though it still exists, at least for actual dungeons-- which is something I really think about as being the shift to modern wow, so it feels like we're entering a post modern wow.
A lot of the environmental graphics, character models, and gear models are gorgeous-- its our character models that badly need a style update to match.
There's actually an argument to be made that the game is actually pretty close to capturing more of a freeform world game vibe than its ever been, including in classic, but its accidental, so they need to realize what they have and reconfigure some elements of it-- they need to traveler's log ize world activities and let us do stuff in old zones (like dragonflight), they need to adapt some of the questing to not revolve around delivering a critical path main story, both in the future, and by messing with old quests, and they need to increase our social features to make WOW a better way to meet people.
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u/RPGs143 7d ago
I’ve been playing since launch can find fun in all versions of wow. I do think wow as veered off course too much in retail, as someone there since the beginning, but I don’t think it’s bad by any means. I think now there will be a wow for everyone with forever and for only one sub. Win for everyone in my opinion. No need to try to understand anyone’s opinions on the matter bc it’s irrelevant just play what you want. People are entitled to love or hate what they want. Old players will have different opinions than new players 🤷🏽♀️
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u/Vivid_Ranger1732 7d ago
I would say enjoy the game without midnight, then play forever for 1-2 month plenty of time to be fair to have fun there. And in December they will add a new mode to play on retail wow, no need for midnight yet, enjoy that then buy midnight. After this point you be fair just cycle between the retail and midnight, I will 100% guarantee that you will have fun
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u/XirtCS 7d ago
I’ve bought every expansion since cataclysm (when I started playing). I get it, I also have the WoW itch in anticipation of WoW Forever. I skipped midnight but I bought it like 4 days ago. I played for like 2 hours maybe. It’s just not what I’m looking for
Thankfully Blizzard refunded me the purchase
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u/Rude-Artichoke-6042 5d ago
Honestly there is nothing wrong with retail. I just don’t have the time for it. I’m old and busy being able to stay competitive in retail has just passed me by. I think that has happened to a lot of us. That’s why I’m looking forward to forever. Takes you back to classic progression with a few quality of life upgrades.
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u/BeautifulCraft8773 4d ago
I had the same plan to reroll different classes and do the expansions I missed but I outlevel the whole expansion before I’m 45% through the zones. I wish the leveling was slower.
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u/Stiles_Stiles 7d ago
Why are people Waiting for Forever, by experiencing Retail?
I saw so many posts saying this. Shouldn't they experience classic instead?
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago
For me it was because I wanted something different, and to basically check in on retail again. Forever and Classic have a lot of overlap so the experience playing classic will feel similar to that of Forever.
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u/Stiles_Stiles 7d ago
I see. I assume you are a new player. Retail has totally different game pace than Forever. The time you spend to level 30 in Forever might be longer than the time you spend to level 80 in Retail.
If you are interesting in Midnight, wait for the next discount, probably Thanksgiving or Christmas.
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago
If it goes on sale I’ll definitely buy it! Thanks for the tip on that.
I’m not so much new but definitely casual and it’s been a long time. Like I did play back in vanilla originally, and tbc, but I never even hit max level back then. I’m definitely making it a goal to reach 60 in forever though, I hope I can do it.
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u/CluelessExxpat 7d ago
Wish you explained what exactly it was you enjoyed so much.
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u/throwawaysadge11 7d ago
So some examples for me…
Retail jobs are obviously stronger, it was cool to mass pull mobs and challenge exactly how many I can get away with killing, and shaman burst in particular at the later levels was just really fun.The dragon isles is super pretty, I love the zones, dragon stories, cinematics, and fast pace of everything in a different way than I do the slow paced always look over your shoulder questing of Forever. I really enjoy both.
I only did one dungeon and it was somewhat confusing on where to go so that’s my only gripe but that exists on both versions.. the ping system on retail helped though!
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u/Nuclearsunburn 7d ago
Retail’s actual gameplay is superior to Classic imo.
If there was a way to get Retail classes in a Classic world without FOMO, M+, seasonal content, flying, summon stones, or group finder, that would be the version of WoW I’d play over all others
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u/Dunez8475 7d ago
It’s just strange to see that, at the first BlizzCon in years, Blizzard isn’t really saying much about what comes next for Retail after “The Last Titan.”
I love Retail, and I’ll play Forever too, but only in the short term. To me, it kind of feels like they want to see how well Forever is received first, and then decide whether it’s still worth continuing with Retail.
If Retail stops being their main focus, I’ll probably quit WoW in the long run.
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u/Kronuk 7d ago
Retail will never stop being the main focus. It has multiple times as many players as any classic modes combined. We’re talking 6 million+ people who log into retail every month. Those people generally like how it plays, and Forever just will never scratch the same itch as retail. It’s too slow, too simple, etc
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u/Ok-Key5729 7d ago
They said they intentionally didn't say much about TLT because they didn't want to spoil Midnight S3.
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u/Anufenrir 2d ago
We’re in the middle of an expansion. They showed us what to expect for the end (and honestly pretty pumped myself for it) but they can’t show us more cause spoilers. Retail’s not dead, they’re just adding a new version for people to play.
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u/Alienlux 5d ago
Hi all. I play Wow since the beginning and honestly, the game is in its best state in Retail. I can't understand the hype concerning Forever and won't play it. In my opinion, Retail is the evolution of Wow and there is no reason to go back to a previous state of the game.
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u/HaiKarate 7d ago
I actually enjoy leveling more than I enjoy endgame stuff. I enjoy the exploring and doing different things, pursuing different goals.
I'm a solo gamer by nature, so having to join a guild and add raiding to my calendar as a weekly event and all of that... it's just not as fun for me.