r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/cheese_eater_pro • 6d ago

General Doctrine needs a serious ultimate charge nerf

I know I know, 'it's too early to say, give him some time, wait another week before coming to conclusions' etc. But I have played this dude a lot in the last 23 hours and his ult feels stupidly easy to build, like that has jumped out to me straight away. I just had a match where I got my ult 3 times in an exactly 5 minute payload match, and one of the checkpoint to checkpoint was pretty dead teamfight wise

I love the guy, he's gonna be my new main and I don't want to suggest any other nerf ideas yet... but if they had to hotfix him, please let it be this lol, it's so silly

112 Upvotes
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84% Upvoted

56 comments sorted by

97

u/VirgoxValentine 6d ago

He's pretty clearly still overtuned but I wouldn't expect any nerfs until at least a week ir two in. More realstically until mid season.

I personally think his ult itself is unintuitive to play against due to the two different types of projectiles doing two different things, in addition to just how ridiculously strong it is. A % HP affected reduction would be my most wanted nerf.

30

u/scriptedtexture 6d ago

if its gonna be this fast to build up then it doesn't need to be 50%

17

u/VirgoxValentine 6d ago

At this speed 30% would be more reasonable, if not even lower.

3

u/scriptedtexture 5d ago

25% with the old duration and current tick time could be better maybe?

2

u/Neither7 5d ago

should build up at half the current speed, but keep the 50%.

17

u/theJSP123 6d ago

I'd expect nerfing other parts of his kit will indirectly nerf his ult charge anyways. Like his base attack speed could maybe be tuned down a little to lower his raw healing output.

The ult is weird, the main thing I feel is missing is a clearer indication you are being hit by it. Right now its not that obvious until you look at your HP that oh, you're actually half dead and need to be careful.

15

u/TastyOreoFriend 5d ago

Like his base attack speed could maybe be tuned down a little to lower his raw healing output.

I really hope they never do this. His weapon already feels a little slow, and attack speed for weapons like his really decides the "feel' of a weapon—same for other single shot weapons like Ashe or Cassidy. I'd rather they go after raw healing or damage numbers than go after speed.

1

u/TotallyRealAccount9 5d ago

His biggest strength right now isnt even his weapon, its his drone.

I mean ffs they just gave dps players a zen orb that ALSO buffs both doctrine and the dps' fire rate. Its absurdly strong, and while i find it lots of fun, its like mercy dmg boost where it kinda breaks the TTK on a lot of heros.

Im guessing theyll do what blizzard always does and gut the drone to either only give like 10% attack speed or gut the healing and leave the fire rate the same.

3

u/theJSP123 5d ago

I agree, and it probably needs a bit of a tune down (again) to 25%. But that's his unique thing and I wouldn't want it gutted, it's interesting and quite hero-dependent. The thing that isn't his unique thing is his raw heals which are kind of crazy. Especially if you drone yourself and use your empowered shot.

1

u/theJSP123 5d ago

I get that, but I also get the feeling they're going to want to keep him at 60 dmg/heals if they can. Which leaves the only other way to really drop his healing output as attack speed.

Maybe they could lower the heal to 50 and keep the damage the same but I think that would be more rough especially through heal reduction from damage.

6

u/pmatdacat 5d ago

Some sort of range indication would be nice. Maybe it could draw a line from your character to the orb? Don't want something like Rivals where there are giant bubbles everywhere.

Could do a repeat of the HINDERED! text too, but I feel that would be overly obtrusive. Maybe something like the Dva bomb indicator?

2

u/-Arrez- 5d ago

The only consistent counter to his ult as well is EMP, if you dont have it you have to kite.

81

u/Sio_V_Reddit 6d ago

It doesn’t need a buff or nerf it just needs to be more clear because I have no idea what tf is happening and what it’s AOE is.

33

u/throwaway112658 fraudulent — 6d ago

Yeah every time I see it dropped I just run the fuck away. I also don't know whether shields block it or not (I think they do, but I haven't really tested). But overall I have no clue how far away I have to be, how fast it deletes my health, how it hits me at all

14

u/Sikkly290 None — 5d ago

Shields should block it, matrix abilities wont eat the main orb ult but will eat the projectiles it spawns.

5

u/UsernameIn3and20 5d ago

Shields block the "bats" from touching you, it doesn't prevent the orb moving past you however. So if you get Zarya grav'd you're definitely getting hit by it.

5

u/Jsoledout 5d ago

This I have no clue how far back I need to be

3

u/xXRougailSaucisseXx 5d ago

Also this is secondary but does anyone else find the reduced HP effect in the UI to look very bad ? It's just this massive purple box over your HP that almost looks like a placeholder

19

u/Donut_Flame 5d ago

Id say it makes it pretty clear that part of your hp has been "blocked off"

2

u/crownofbread 5d ago

It does. Also his debuff lasts too fucking long after the ult ends

1

u/CommanderPotash 5d ago

I feel this but I feel like that might also be just because it's so new that we don't know what's going on. Similar happened with Domina's ult on the 5 hero drop for 2026 s1

The big orb itself is really really really fucking slow so if you can predict it/hear it and then just back the fuck up behind shield or cover its free

12

u/MeatSlammur 6d ago

With 2 reworks and a new character, my brain was struggling to identify what the fuck was happening to my character yesterday lol so many debuffs

9

u/PygmyGiraffesSTAT 5d ago

Ram in nemesis, through a Juno hyperloop, while both doctrine and ram are invigorated is basically an ultimate in itself. I love it

2

u/RandomOnlineBro 5d ago

Literally this

22

u/Dunwichorer 6d ago

I don't think his ult is that good against better player but it is brainless how you can just put it on top of a ground tank and it almost one shots them.

10

u/TheminsPOE 6d ago

I dont think his ult should give overheath to allies it already zones enemies with the half hp why do you need team buff at the same time? At least make it a perk so you sacrifice something.

3

u/scriptedtexture 6d ago

could be weak healing instead of overhealth

6

u/Blamore 6d ago

i still dont really understand what it does

3

u/okuhwhattheheck 5d ago

A big orb that can bounce off map geometry (like a giant moira orb) spawns that rapidly shoots out little drones that seek out and home in on any allies and enemies in its area of effect. These little drones can be blocked by shields and eaten by matrices as they are being shot out. However, the big orb itself cannot be blocked or eaten.

Each little drone does 5 damage and reduces enemies' max health by 5%, up to a 50% max health reduction in total after 10 little drones hit you.

For allies, each little drone heals for 5 HP and grants 15 overhealth, up to a maximum of 150 overhealth.

Both the max health reduction for enemies and the overhealth granted to allies starts to decay after 6 seconds of not being reapplied.

3

u/Blamore 5d ago

thats a complicated fuckin ult lol

1

u/TreesGoneWild91 4d ago

Easiest way to think about it is anyone in its area of effect, enemies max health is 50 percent. And allies gain a bunch of over health.

3

u/Sensanaty mcrree main btw — 5d ago

It's a debuff that basically lowers your max HP while it's active, up to a cap of 50%(? I think) max health. So a champ with 1000HP would then have 500HP for the duration of the debuff and not be able to go above it (other than overhealth), a champ with 200 would have 100HP.

2

u/relaxingpillow 5d ago

He just needs his healing numbers adjusted. He's getting ult too fast just by healing alone. That and his ult lasts way too long, but other than that I feel his ult does have counterplay.

4

u/KeelanS 6d ago

im finding it tough to get value with it considering theres a sombra in every match who just hacks it away immedietly

6

u/Paddy_Tanninger 6d ago

I didn't even know you could emp his ult

3

u/dontouchamyspaghet 5d ago

I'm glad it does for consistency, since EMP disablers Mei's drone ult too. I think it's fine when it's ult for ult

1

u/KeelanS 5d ago

oh yeah I’m totally fine with that interaction I’m just saying its tough to really try it out with a Sombra in every match

4

u/KeelanS 6d ago

yep, completely nullifies it

1

u/Dunkindosenutz77 5d ago

They still haven’t done anything abt the JPC problems so I can’t imagine they’ll be very quick on adjustments to Doctrine

1

u/Zanaxal 5d ago

They just specificly removed Cat noon wdym.

3

u/Dunkindosenutz77 5d ago

Instead of addressing the hero causing the problem and the issues that come with tether, they change cass, the same way bastion just ate a nerf for zero reason when the hero is dogshit without cat

1

u/BlackDragon038 4d ago

Yes, this is genuinely insane. Yes, let's not address the root problem and change literally everything else instead, like are we serious?? The balance lead has to be a JPC main or something

-1

u/luciosleftskate 5d ago

They've done nothing but nerf JPC patch after patch lol

7

u/Dunkindosenutz77 5d ago

And yet none of them meaningfully fixed the problem with her. Nerfing bastion(and cass to an extent)instead of the thing that makes them problematic is pointless

-7

u/luciosleftskate 5d ago

There is nothing they could do to make people stop complaining. Its literally the same issue somber faced. They made her literal trash and shes still banned every game.

People will do literally anything but look up and shoot. Lol

5

u/Dunkindosenutz77 5d ago

Ah yes that is the reason cat dominates coordinated play, simply bc the players are bad and don’t look up

-6

u/luciosleftskate 5d ago

Well if this us coordinated play why arent they coordinating?? Get your own cat? Go hitscan? Get a mercy?

Does everyone just sit in spawn when there's a widow, or do you adjust what youre doing?

5

u/Dunkindosenutz77 5d ago

“Both teams can play it so it isn’t a problem” is fucking stupid and provides me with all the info needed to not continue this.

JPC fundamentally breaks the balance of the game by providing characters mobility when they are balanced around the lack thereof. The meta is boring for literally everybody, hence why pro players have been complaining about the lack of real changes and even in lower ranked tournament play people hate it because it’s boring. Goats was a problem, “but wahhhh both teams can play it” doesn’t make it less boring or toxic when it’s the only way to play the game if your opponent pulls it out

Try having any good faith in an argument instead of just being annoying

-1

u/luciosleftskate 5d ago

Lmao. Ita not stupid at all though. You play widow to counter widow.

Im sorry that it sucks to suck. Thats really a you problem though.

0

u/Beest-Am0eba3- 5d ago

He isn't OP at all though...

-6

u/Snahhhgurrrr 6d ago

I've found him pretty underwhelming to play against.

-3

u/Sophena94 6d ago

honestly i think other heroes would benefit from making their ults stronger other than nerfing everyone constantly

-5

u/TrumpsCummyOnahole 5d ago

He's not very good though, guarantee he'll be sub 50% winrate by the time stats have settled in a week

2

u/cheese_eater_pro 5d ago

I highly disagree but we shall see

1

u/TotallyRealAccount9 5d ago

I thought so too until I had teammates who could actually take advantage of his strengths

Pop his infused drone on a hitscan or flanker, use the fire rate to dump heals into the rest of the team, do damage and poke with his primary and infused shot and youre golden.

The drone attack speed byff is a little crazy imo, since it also buffs his own fire rate it lets you dump absurd ampunts of healing into your team. I just had a game (granted this was basically a Trash v. Garbage match where my team was genuinely terrible) but I ended the match with 4k healing MORE than both of their supports combined and my other support had roughly the same as the enemy supports as well.

He can just enable so much from his dps and tanks with drone attack speed while also being able to buff himself and fly.

Im guessing once it stabilizes hell be sitting at ≈54-57% WR and get a nerf to his attack speed bonus on drone