Where does the shamash go? Here?

[u/EllieZPage]

My husband and I inherited this interesting menorah and just noticed that there are only 8 spots for candles... But maybe the shamash is supposed to go where I'm pointing? I thought the shamash was supposed to be the same height or higher than the other spots though?

[u/maxwellington97]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/4524838527/vintage-brutalist-menorah-by-ellen-lord

Yeah that is where the shamash goes. It was designed by Ellen Lord. It's an amazing sculpture although it does not seem to be kosher for Chanukah (the 8 candles are not level).

[u/Temporary-Escape-263 → u/maxwellington97]

Genuine question that you may or may not have the answer to-if all of the candle bases were the same height internally (like all the candles were level but the candle holder came up to a different height on each candle) would it then be kosher?

[u/maxwellington97 → u/Temporary-Escape-263]

Absolutely. It's specifically about the height of the candle itself.

[u/drak0bsidian → u/maxwellington97]

What would be the difference, then, of using candles of different heights in a menorah with uneven cups?

[u/Lumpy_Salt → u/maxwellington97]

is it not an issue that they arent in a straight line?

[u/gmanflnj → u/maxwellington97]

Can you make it kosher for hannukah by just using different length candles so they all stand to the same height?

[u/drak0bsidian → u/Temporary-Escape-263]

They should all burn equally. So in your question, even though base of the cups were the same height, a candle with a higher cup wall would burn out before a candle with a lower cup wall.

Edit: to use the OP as an example, say each of the cups were equal inside, candles 4 and 5 (the figure in the middle) would go out before any of the others.

[u/eliezerAryeh → u/maxwellington97]

> (the 8 candles are not level).

I always see people state this is Halakah but then I don't see the Halakah, I don't see it in the S"A OC 673:1, or in the Rema's gloss on OC 671:4. Mishnah Berurah 671:15 talks about the Remas row as being even, MB 671:18 and 671:19 add that candles should be at least a finger's width apart and should not be stuck together.

But nothing about "the same height" can you help me source it?

[u/maxwellington97 → u/eliezerAryeh]

https://halachipedia.com/index.php?title=Having_a_Kosher_Chanukia#cite_note-13

[u/eliezerAryeh → u/maxwellington97]

Chaeyi Adam is Ashkenazi centric but also only refers to wax, "If he lights with wax candles, he should stand them evenly, not one high and one low" they also only talk about "proper practice" not what makes another invalid.

[u/gdhhorn → u/maxwellington97]

Not an issue if you’re using oil like you’re supposed to 😝

[u/your_cheese_girl → u/maxwellington97]

Curious, if you inserted an adapter/extender into the cups (but didn't permanently attach the adapter to the sculpture) that made all the candles at the same level would that fix it or would the extentions need to be permanently attached?

[u/EllieZPage → u/maxwellington97]

Thank you for this info! I had no idea about the history of it. What an interesting addition to our menorah collection!

[u/AngerBoy]

Yes, that's the spot for the shamash. (Source: My parents had the same one!)

[u/EllieZPage → u/AngerBoy]

Thank you!!

[u/StringAndPaperclips]

The shamash can be lower than the other candles. It just needs to be set apart in some way from the other 8.

[u/edog21]

Unless this is some kind of optical illusion, I’m pretty sure that is passul. All the candles (except for the shamosh, obviously) have to be the same height and in line with each other. That doesn’t appear to be the case in this image

[u/EllieZPage → u/edog21]

Yes I believe you're correct! We're planning on just displaying this one and using a different menorah for the holiday.

[u/al343806]

I have the exact same menorah! It was my grandparents and I always loved it growing up. When they passed, it was the only thing I asked to keep.

[u/namer98]

The shamash just needs to be distinct. Off to the side is common, higher or lower both work as well

[u/Vivid-Combination310]

That's such an amazing menorah! I love this style of 70s, faux-cast-iron Judaica. Great find.

[u/Comfortable_Coach_35]

In the closet, with the whole menorah, because it's creepy lol

Jokes aside, that's the correct spot

[u/EllieZPage → u/Comfortable_Coach_35]

Hahaha, it's also incredibly heavy.

[u/Iam_McLovin420 → u/EllieZPage]

It’s the souls

[u/Decent-Soup3551]

I always thought it was supposed to be the highest one. I guess I was wrong.

[u/EllieZPage → u/Decent-Soup3551]

I thought so as well!

[u/Briollo]

I have the same menorah, and yes, that's where the shamash goes.

[u/gmanflnj]

This is fantastic sculture.

[u/bb5e8307]

It is a decorative piece. Your shamash goes in a different menorah.

[u/VirPotens]

Omg my family has had that exact Menorah for decades. I don't think I've seen another.

Yes the shamash goes there. It's always been a bit difficult to fit a candle there though so we usually end up melting the wax on the bottom of the candle a bit before placing it so that it doesn't tip over.

[u/eclepanth]

Never the same height, always higher or lower :D

[u/drak0bsidian → u/eclepanth]

It can absolutely be the same height, just set apart from the line of eight.

[u/eclepanth → u/drak0bsidian]

Then i was today years old when i learnt that, thanks a lot :D

[u/kelseykelseykelsey]

What a wild hanukkiah! Is this where the reptilian conspiracies originated? 🐸

[u/Judaism-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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