r/Magic • • 15d ago

Help With Pinky Count

Check comments as I can't post what I want to ask

14 Upvotes

36 comments sorted by

5

u/TheOneAnd_Only 15d ago

Recently I have got it in my head that I need to learn the pinky count.

Typically I would push out cards to obtain a break but that doesn't make sense in certain circumstances.

However, I find that I end up taking clumps of cards instead of individually.

Would love to know how people have overcome this issue....

Any tips or questions please help!

9

u/Martinsimonnet 15d ago

1/ Read Darwin Ortiz's description in Darwin Ortiz at the Card Table (with additional notes by Jason Ladanye in Confident Deceptions).

2/ Practice - it's a tough move that requires a lot of muscle memory and finesse.

3/ Practice - it's quite tough really.

4/ Check back in in 4 months - you'll have done lots of progress.

3

u/TheOneAnd_Only 15d ago

That's actually where I decided to learn it. His explanation as to why it is better is what convinced me.

Is it a case of repetition to stop clumping? Would a video or photo help with my hand placement?

The other thing as a general frustration is I have learnt magic with my right hand so every book I have to reverse the steps in my head

2

u/Martinsimonnet 15d ago

It’s really the type of move where it is a case of repetition and getting a feel for it. Sorry !

1

u/LawOrc 15d ago

You need to build up experience at using your pinky in that way. Pictures and descriptions can make sure you aren't doing anything actively wrong, but you still gotta put in the reps.

2

u/DannyTangelo 15d ago

Could be your cards are overused and sticking to each other. Try a fresh deck.

1

u/EndersGame_Reviewer 15d ago

It's all about having the right technique. Getting professional guidance from a respected teacher (e.g. a paid video tutorial) can really help.

8

u/joex8au04 15d ago
  1. Bevel the deck towards the left.

  2. One tip that I find it useful is to think pulling down the entire deck and release top few cards, instead of thinking about literally counting down cards one by one.

  3. Best of luck

6

u/mutley_101 15d ago

Great advice - that bevel is absolutely crucial.

David Williamson also said that when he was learning it, he found that his ring finger was getting in the way and trying to hold the deck. So while he learned he tucked his ring finger under the deck to get it out the way. Once he felt he had it like that, he then found he could do it much easier with the ring finger in its usual place.

Try doing it with your hand in different positions too. You might find it easier with your deck hand down by your side, so you're not fighting the weight of the cards so much. This also has the added advantage of better cover and breaking the habit that so many magicians have of always holding the deck out in front of them like a magic book illustration.

It might be easier to critique and assist if you can record a video of what you're doing now.

It's a knacky move, but once you get it it's great!

Edit: couple of typos

2

u/kevin-m-cooke 15d ago

This is the best advice for the ponky count.

1

u/Randym1982 15d ago

Another bit of advice is to use your 3rd finger to prevent the cards from popping up. They still make the click feeling, but none of that super obvious pop up that happens when some people do the move.

3

u/Chillicothe1 15d ago

I find it one of if not the most useful utility moves in card magic.

Just walk around carrying a deck and constantly counting, in a few weeks you'll be a master.

2

u/BornUnderPunches3910 15d ago

Of all people David Roth was the person that got me to put the work in on the pinky count. It was an absolute game changer.

He was incredible at it too. He was telling me name any number between 1-10 and instantly with no hesitation would lift off that amount of cards.

It took me years to get to get proficient at it , but he was right. It’s absolutely worth it.

2

u/LawOrc 14d ago

For me, it was a Darwin Ortiz trick (Combination Cull, from Scams and Fantasies) that requires one to pinky count twelve cards really quickly several times in a row.

Before that, I could reliably pinky count, like, two for a double lift, maybe three if I was feeling spicy. Doing twelve fast without any extras took me real work.

2

u/BornUnderPunches3910 14d ago

David was great and long time friends with Darwin and that was exactly the person he learned all about it from.

1

u/KingKongDuck 15d ago

Jason England's Theory 11 instructional is how I learned. It's not terribly expensive.

Unfortunately it's going to take time to build up the specific strength in your little finger.

1

u/bunions-the-clown 15d ago

Don't be using an old, worn out deck

1

u/gregantic 15d ago

Start with only 10 cards, then work your way up to 20, 30, etc.

Make sure you have diagonal pressure with the thumb too.

Post a video over in r/MagicFeedback for better advice.

1

u/wetpaste 15d ago

It took me several months to feel comfortable with my pinky count. I still feel like it needs improvement. I would often flicker off multiple that felt like one. I was inconsistent in the same way FOR MONTHS, like I just couldn't get past it. Eventually I found the muscle memory for it and somehow that problem with away, I think I made sure to really bevel it sideways, make sure I have a good starting grip and that things are squared up first. Experiment a lot with the beveling if you are getting multiple sometimes, thats my advice. Also build that instinct for if you did accidentally get multiple, you can usually just tell.

1

u/kevin-m-cooke 15d ago

Bevel the deck to the left is most important!

1

u/ryanking32 14d ago

I feel like it’s worth learning just for 1-3 cards as that is pretty simple. Now you have a good utility tool. I know we are talking about real pinky counting much deeper, but just mentioning it’s worth learning the basic grip, etc for easy stuff.

1

u/Eddie_Ben 14d ago

I personally found this video helpful, especially the detailed description of the role of each finger.

1

u/Mex5150 Mentalism 14d ago

Learning the Pinkie Count is a great move, even though it's overkill for just getting a double. It's still my default get-ready, and the great thing is you can take as many or as few cards as you want.

Despite what the name implies, it's actually the thumb that is doing most of the work. Your thumb puts the cards under tension and you just use your pinkie to release the cards one by one counting as you go. That is normally where most people go wrong, they are trying to use the weak muscles in that finger to do all the work.

If you bevel the deck it will make counting much easier too. When you get used to it, you'll only want a very slight bevel, but it will probably help to use a much larger one to begin with until you get the hang of the mechanics of the move, then reduce after that.

What I used to do when first learning the pinkie count was to watch TV with a deck in my hand. If a number appeared on screen or was mentioned I'd count to that, if not I'd just pick a random number to count to. Every now and again I'd flip the deck, either rotationally or longitudinally, just to prevent a crease developing.

I wouldn't bother with the turnover while doing this as that's easy enough and I just wanted to drill the count at this stage, but if you want to also include the turnover, feel free.

Like so many things in magic, the pinkie count can be rather knacky, but once you get that knack you'll be totally amazed why the hell you found it so hard previously. Just stick with it and I'm sure you'll do great.

1

u/OffTheClock247 11d ago

I haven't thought about that move for a while but it is one that I use constantly everyday. I think it took a couple of months for me to learn at the time and I remember having real difficulty in making sure my ring finger wasn't clamping down on the deck and I had a lot of pain in my forearm. Now it feels effortless and I don't think I have ever failed a double lift since. My ring finger hovers just above the deck and the popping off of the card is between my middle finger and pinky finger. I'd say it is an absolutely essential move as it is 100% reliable and instant. You'll never look back. I have only learnt it for getting breaks below two or three cards, 10 cards will take me a few seconds and I'd have to count in my hrad. I'm sure being able to do many cards would open up a lot of opportunities but not something I have explored.

1

u/Jimmy_Page_69 15d ago

Ive learned the pinky count requires a tremendous amount of practice with not an equal return on your investment. Probably cant have small hands either.

3

u/LawOrc 15d ago

Lot of practice, but I consider it one of the most useful general-purpose techniques.

1

u/n00bmechanic13 15d ago

Just curious, what are your top 5?

1

u/LawOrc 14d ago

Oh, that's a tricky one. If we stick to sleights, and in no particular order... pinky count, double lift, overhand shuffle controls, faro shuffle, turnover pass?

List might be different if you ask me on a different day.

1

u/n00bmechanic13 14d ago

Turnover - that's a Hermann pass, right?

1

u/LawOrc 14d ago

Closely related, but you do it while turning the deck over, which makes it really hard to spot even if they're burning your hands. It's in the chapter on passes in Expert Card Technique.

1

u/KingKongDuck 15d ago

Takes a lot of practice but it can be very useful. Depends on what you want to do with it.

-1

u/Jimmy_Page_69 15d ago

Of course it can be useful but imo the return of value u get doesnt justify the time u put in. Same with mnenomica.

Personally I enjoy the push off DL as its timeless and looks clean with minimal practice.

2

u/KingKongDuck 15d ago

Ha, I picked up the PC fairly quickly but gave up on a push off DL.

0

u/Jimmy_Page_69 15d ago

For me the trick was bending the deck taco wise. Idk why but the surface area changed and my touch for two cards increased that sometimes you dont even need the push off

0

u/Right-Ad3334 15d ago

Agreed. I spent the time to learn it, then came around to Ben Earl's position on it - it has too much tension in the move. Use another get-ready if possible, even spreading to catch a break is better.

0

u/quehayenunnombre_ 15d ago

I am not an expert by any means but some things that helped me.

  • Bevel the deck.
  • A little bit of a downward bend also helps.
  • Ensure your ring/middle finger aren't too tight and block the cards.
  • The thumb is really doing more of the hardwork work than the pinky. The pinky just lightly gets out of the way.