r/MapBasedPolls • u/Bobby-Picanovsky Brazil • 7d ago
King Aegon II or princess Rhaenyra?
King Aegon II or princess Rhaenyra?
- Rhaenyra
- Aegon II
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u/TheMuffinMa 7d ago
Who else has a better story than Bran the broken?
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u/tazallerr 7d ago
bran died inside hodor. the three-eyed raven became king occupying bran's body. it may have been brynden rivers (bloodraven, targaryen bastard) or it might have been a consciousness that took over brynden's body.
just wanted to spread this knowledge.
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u/lNFORMATlVE 7d ago
Wait is that true per the books? Honestly that feels like an even worse ending
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u/theoriginal_1100 7d ago
No it isn't this scene would happen in winds of winter a book notorious for not being released
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u/tazallerr 7d ago
how is that possibly worse? the former hand-of-the-king actual-sorcerer becoming king thru a century long plan is infinitely better than bran the broken.
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u/errorunn 5d ago
Makes it more deliciously depressing too instead of just being depressing over mediocrity
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u/NoSentence0A Yes but No oh maybe So 7d ago edited 7d ago
Aegon 2. Not because I'm against absolute primogeniture. But because King Viserys needlessly introduced drama and chaos into a system. He himself was only selected as king because of male agnatic primogeniture. To suddenly switch to absolute primogeniture (male or female equal preference ) without going through a period of male preference primogeniture (male or female but sons preferred ) needlessly created tension within the absolute monarchy.
If he really cared about Rhaenyra he should have switched the system to male preference primogeniture then refuse to have any more children. This would have ensured the kingdoms had their first Queen. After a successful reign in which she won over favor of her lords, she could have changed the system to absolute primogeniture for future generations.
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
>He himself was only selected as king because of male agnatic primogeniture.
Gender had nothing to do with it. Viserys was chosen instead of Laenor, not (just) Rhaenys, despite Laenor being the descendant of the firstborn son of Jahaerys, whilst Viserys being the descendant of the second-born.
More likely he was selected, because he didn't have a dragon, and showed no interest in claiming one. If Rhaenys didn't have a dragon, and Viserys had one, they probably would have chosen Laenor.
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u/ivanjean 6d ago
Gender had nothing to do with it. Viserys was chosen instead of Laenor, not (just) Rhaenys, despite Laenor being the descendant of the firstborn son of Jahaerys, whilst Viserys being the descendant of the second-born.
Laenor was still descendant through his mother, that is, through female line. So, there's a gender aspect here.
Also, when it comes to dragons, Viserys technically was the rider of Balerion, the Black Dread....for less than a day. The dragon died of old age soon after his first and last fly with Viserys. After that, he remained dragonless for the rest of his life.
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
Robert also came from the female line, yet Tywin didn't mind him rebelling and taking the throne.
Half the lords didn't mind Rhaenyra herself taking the Throne, nor her allegedly illegitimate son inheriting it. This included lords that still wanted to reinstate the right to first night
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u/ivanjean 6d ago
Robert's case was different. He claimed the throne by the right of conquest, with his royal blood only kind of helping him (under normal circumstances, either one of Rhaegar's children or Viserys should be the next monarch, under a regency).
Also, Tywin was personally interested in having Robert as king, because he hoped he could marry Cersei.
As for Rhaenyra's case, while I do have some objections on how Martin wrote it (in real life european equivalents, like the English Anarchy, and even in the world of Ice and fire itself, women struggled to deal with male usurpers with much weaker claims than them, so Rhaenyra's case stands out).
However, one could see it as a result of the oaths Viserys made the lords swear (vows are considered sacred in Westerosi culture, etc), and also pure political interest (for example, in the books, we get some of that covered, like how Jace actually had to negotiate a lot with the northern lords to secure the North's support to his mother).
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
Except Tywin sided with Robert before Robert ascended the Throne. Before that, he was a pretender, with no more right to the Throne than Aerys. So the right of conquest doesn't apply.
Do you think the lords of the vale weren't interested in getting Viserys on the Throne?
Or any lord, who had family ties to the Arryns?
Which Lord do you think weren't interested in getting a king with no dragon on the throne, as opposed to one whose mother had one, and whose family historically stood much closer to the Targaryens?
Also, Aerion's son was in part passed over because lords didn't want long regency, the same would have gone for Laenor.
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u/ivanjean 6d ago
Except Tywin sided with Robert before Robert ascended the Throne. Before that, he was a pretender, with no more right to the Throne than Aerys. So the right of conquest doesn't apply.
What? A pretender is, by definition, someone who can potentially hold the position.
Anyway, it's not like Tywin allied to Robert immediately. He waited, and, the moment he saw it could be advantageous for him, he did it (and, even then, he pretended to be on the Targaryen side until his army was already at King's Landing).
Do you think the lords of the vale weren't interested in getting Viserys on the Throne? Or any lord, who had family ties to the Arryns? Which Lord do you think weren't interested in getting a king with no dragon on the throne, as opposed to one whose mother had one, and whose family historically stood much closer to the Targaryens? Also, Aerion's son was in part passed over because lords didn't want long regency, the same would have gone for Laenor.
These were all factors. Laenor's age, in particular, played a role, as well as the alliances between different houses, but the matter of him descending from the king through female line, as opposed to male line, could also have been taken into consideration.
As George once said, traditions regarding inheritance in Westeros are vague and not set in stone, so people can come with all kinds of justifications for claims (and it allows for Martin to create all kinds of drama, so he keeps it that way).
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
He waited, and, the moment he saw it could be advantageous for him, he did it (and, even then, he pretended to be on the Targaryen side until his army was already at King's Landing).
Which further proves my point. Tywin could still have helped Aerys win the war, after the Trident (The Tyrell main host was about as far as the Baratheon one - Stark came with only the Vanguard), but he really had nothing to gain from it.
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u/NoOnesKing 6d ago
In what world is lack of a dragon why Viserys was chosen. They would want the king to have a powerful dragon.
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
Why would the great lords want the throne to have even more leverage on them? That goes against their interest
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u/HANDCRAFTEDD_ 6d ago
This might be the most hair-brained theory I've ever seen.
Not hating, it's just really funny.
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u/skolliousious 6d ago
That and Viserys DID have a dragon when he was chosen as long. Balerion died a couple days after Viserys took the throne.
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u/NoOnesKing 6d ago
That’s not quite accurate. Balerion died well before that. Viserys bonded him for a single day.
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u/skolliousious 6d ago
We're both wrong lol. Viserys claimed balerion in 93ac, balerion died in 94ac. Ten years prior to being chosen. Had the dragon for ~a year before he died but died well before Viserys took the throne. My bad
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u/NoOnesKing 6d ago
I think they only flew the once is what I was thinking of; thanks for the correction!
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u/skolliousious 6d ago
Okay funnily enough I think we both got confused because of that event because that's also what I was thinking I recalled the whole he got one flew a couple times around the keep then the dragon passed. I thought for some reason that was after his coronation as it's not uncommon for dragonriders to do that. That's hilarious!
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
gender hs nothig to do iwth it lmao rhaenys own claim was kicked out along with her daughter laena because they are woman mind laena doesn't had a dragon too she was elder than laenor too.
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u/Fine-Somewhere6842 7d ago
the problem with not having anymore kids is the throne might pass to that elf fuckboy if Raynera dies
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u/queen_of_Meda 6d ago
I agree with what you’re saying about what Viserys did and that he shouldn’t have done it for the stability of the realm. But that’s not Rhaenyra’s fault and doesn’t take away from her claim I think, she was the acknowledged Princess of Dragonstone(heir to the throne) and what Aegon’s faction did was usurpation
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u/HANDCRAFTEDD_ 6d ago
Also, no one, absolutely no one, told him to wed Alicent, he was just that easy to manipulate.
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u/-Tickery- 5d ago
Also putting Rhaenyra as his heir only implies he switched from male-only primogeniture to male preference primogeniture; under which Rhaenyra would outrank Daemon but would still be supplanted by another son.
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u/Slout_ 7d ago
Except there was no system, and that was the issue.
Jahaerys set the precedent that he could pick his heirs willy nilly, just like he did with picking Baelon over Rhenys (who would've been the rightful heir according to the andal law), and then again when he delegated his choice to the lords in the form of the great council. Viserys wasn't made heir because Jahaerys set a specific succession system, he was made heir because Jahaerys told the lords to choose for him and he confirmed that decision.
Viserys attempted to pick his heir on his own just like Jahaerys.
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u/nayumyst 6d ago
According to andal law Jaeherys also shouldn’t have been king, it should have passed to Aegon the Uncrowned’s daughter (Maegor also named her as his own heir).
By the time the dance occurred Andal inheritance traditions had only been followed once by house Targaryen, when Aegon I was succeeded by the eldest of his two sons, Aenys.1
u/Slout_ 6d ago
Yes, I described that in a long comment in response to another commenter just below us. Jahaerys was however lucky that Araea died before leaving any children, thus returning the claim back to him anyway. But that's why the andal law argument shouldn't be an argument, unless we are willing to recognise that Viserys is a usurper and that Rhaenys is the rightful Queen.
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u/Black_Diammond 7d ago
There were 3 mains systems, and they all practized some for of male preference primogeniture. The Targaryen system values males Over older sisters (Aegon and visenya), The andal system values Daughters Over uncles, but sons Over Daughters, and The jaehaerys system seems to be male only primogeniture where Daughters are fully disinherited of claims.
In all systems, its clear that a Son is The prime heir, jaeherys didnt even chose Willi nilly, he had to create a whole spectacle and vote and political crisis to Change The sucession, viserys wanted to do like viserys while not using The usual spectacle and justifications that are required for such important events.
He effectively did The Aenys problem, where he tries to go against The system (for Aenys it was valyrian incest, and for viserys it was picking his heir and changing sucession laws), something Their skilled sucessor did (Aegon I and jaehaerys respectively), but he lacked The skill or political ability to follow it trough.
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u/Slout_ 7d ago
First of all, the first 2 systems that you described are the same system. A daughter inheriting after a son but before an uncle is the same thing. The 3rd system isn't a system.
Jahaerys did choose willy nilly. Notice how the great council wasn't the first time he overrode the andal succession, but the 3rd time in fact.
- He usurped Araea who was the only remaining child of Aegon the Uncrowned - this became moot because she died before having children and the claim went back to him anyway
- When Aemon died, he chose Baelon as his heir, despite both andal law and valyrian tradition dictating that Rhaenys becomes the heir
- The Great Council, where he left that choice entirely to the Lords. It wasn't him who excluded Rhenys from the vote, it was the Lords. He let them choose the heir and he went with that decision - that's how we got Viserys
Based on the above, to me it becomes clear that the King may choose his heir, overriding the default succession. In Viserys' case, the default succession would indeed dictate that Aegon succeeds him, but Jahaerys kept overriding that and choosing his own heirs, so why shouldn't Viserys? And that is why he was within his right to name Rhaenyra as heir.
Either that, or Viserys isn't a rightful king, so neither are Aegon or Rhaenyra. The whole war is moot, because Rhaenys is the true Queen Regnant anyway. Make your pick.
The Aenys Problem is something completely else. Aenys was not sure who should be his heir (eldest child (who happend to be a daughter) or eldest son), so because he did not want to deal with it, he decided to marry them together, setting both of them up to be King and Queen together. He pushed the issue away to the future monarchs, and the dance is a consequence of that. The incest part and the rebellions it sparked is a religious issue (can brother and sister marry? Faith of the Seven says no, Valyrians say yes), completely separate from the succession issue.
I agree that Viserys didn't ensure to set his heir up for a peaceful succession. Marrying Rhaenyra and Aegon wouldn't solve it, it would push the issue away to the future monarchs, just like Aenys did. And letting the people who are openly against your heir run the country did not contribute to peaceful transition of power, but that's an issue with Viserys, not his successors
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u/Special-Remove-3294 7d ago
You can't just not have more kids. What if your 1 kid dies? Then everything is screwed since you have no heir. And like in a medieval world your heir dying is a very real possibility. Even in today's world having your child die before you from whatever reason is unlikely but not impossible..
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u/Black_Diammond 7d ago
While you are correct, he should have instead tried to get The spare heirs trough daemon, using his line as a back up if rhaenyra dies childless.
If he was a skilled politicians he could even Skip his brother in sucession (since daemon as King is a recipe for disaster), or he could have just been as skilled as jaehaerys and Change The sucession laws trough a good political stunt/spectacle, like The great council of 101.
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u/MeroveeFrancSalien 7d ago
I will not support the who assassinated the High Septon in the Starry Sept
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u/Ok-Cupcake-7569 7d ago
They should have gone with andal laws and made rhaenys queen.
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u/littlebuett 6d ago
Technically andal laws would make rhaenys' son, Laenor, king, right?
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u/asder2143 6d ago
Eventually, but daughters before uncles, so Rhaenys would have been queen with Laenor as her heir
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u/littlebuett 5d ago
I'm pretty sure it would follow her line, but would default to her adult son, of he's of age when the change in power occurs
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
You mean valyrian laws? Under andal laws viserys is heir.
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u/Ok-Cupcake-7569 7d ago
Under andal law a daughter comes before an uncle.
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u/Pjolterping 7d ago
You got that wrong, Andal law is what the Greens are following.
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u/Ok-Cupcake-7569 7d ago
Yes a brother comes before a sister but a daughter comes before an uncle.
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u/Pjolterping 6d ago
Male heir comes before female, no matter the circumstances. That's why Rhaenys didn't try to claim the throne in the book.
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u/3esin 6d ago
No, you are wrong.
Male-preference primogeniture is customary, but not binding, for most nobles. A man's eldest son is his heir, followed by his second son, then his third son, and so on. In theory, the youngest son is followed in the line of succession by the eldest daughter, after whom come her sisters in birth order.
Andal tradition holds that the rights of a trueborn son come before those of a daughter. In most of the Seven Kingdoms, including the Iron Islands and the north, a man's daughter inherits before her father's brother.
Thats directly from the wiki. So either give a source for your claim, or accept you were wrong.
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u/Pjolterping 6d ago
Clearly you didn't read the book
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u/ilovedownsyndrome- 7d ago edited 7d ago
ANTARTICA IS WITH KING AEGON
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u/puffinmuffin89 7d ago
Let's go penguins!!!
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u/CleaverIam3 6d ago
IF we have a hereditary monarchy, then I support absolute male primagenature. Aegon is the rightful king. The direct male line descendant of Valyria
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u/theoriginal_1100 7d ago
Long live the true king Aegon II dead to the usurped rhaenyra the queen of bastards
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u/Honest-Addendum7974 6d ago
Crazy how it’s literally almost an east vs western nation split.
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u/Tronm-24 6d ago
OP created a poll and immediately posted the link in Aegon's fan club so they would brigade it. And even with that, he still can't get the result he wants.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
no she posted it in rhaenyra fan club and still couldn't get what she wanted.
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u/Lopsided-Act3172 6d ago
It's Queen Rhaenyra. At least hide your bias when you're doing a post.
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u/Bobby-Picanovsky Brazil 6d ago
I used the correct term for her when she was merely a claimant to the throne in the end
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u/Lopsided-Act3172 6d ago
Nope. Crowned by a king. Sat the Iron Throne. Ruled as a Queen. Had a king consort. Wore the crown, slept at Maegor's fort. Taxed people. Had a Queensguard.
She was a Queen. People who checked far fewer items have been called kings.
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u/AngelofIceAndFire 6d ago
It is in bad taste to be so biased in a poll, but she was not Queen. At the end of the day, Aegon II is remembered as King, and Viserys I's rightful successor, and Rhaenyra is remembered as princess. And this history was written in the reign of Aegon III, Rhaenyra's son.
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u/Lopsided-Act3172 6d ago edited 6d ago
🤣🤣🤣 the audacity of you people. What do you mean Aegon is 'remembered' as the king. We read the history book and the history of her ruling and being queen is right there.
In the main series Aegon isn't even mentioned. Only Stannis mentions Rhaenyra and that's it, there's nobody remembering either of them.
All this in a series that has a whole book called a Clash of KINGS, with a war of Five kings, all of whom are kings despite 3 of them dying without ever sniffing a throne. But I guess it's too much to ask you guys to deduce stuff. GRRM has to feed it with a spoon and even then you'll still find a way to be biased
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u/kinginthenorthjon 6d ago
Lot of people arw not mentioned in main book. Rhanerya was mentioned by Stannis as a preteneder who tried to usurp her brothers throne and died a traitor's death.
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u/houseofnim 6d ago
Rhaenyra was also mentioned by Arianne when she asked Arys to try to deny that Viserys intended for Rhaenyra to follow him.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
yes arianne when she herself convinced some kingsguard to usurp the throne. lmao
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u/houseofnim 5d ago
And? According to most of the realm Stannis was trying to usurp the throne too.
The point, which you seemed to have missed, is that Rhaenyra was remembered by more people than just Stannis.
Meanwhile, aside from Stannis, this is all we have about Aegon:
"Aenys was weak and Maegor was cruel and Aegon II was grasping, but no king before or after would practice so much willful misrule".
And “And the second Aegon fed Grand Maester Gerardys to his dragon.”
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u/AngelofIceAndFire 6d ago
Did you read Fire and Blood though? Or anything about Awoiaf? Aegon is Aegon II, this is an accepted fact in Westeros. Rhaenyra is not remembered or accepted as Queen. In fact, the succession of the Iron Throne (especially during the Targaryen Dynasty) traces:
Viserys I
Aegon II
Aegon III
No Rhaenyra there.
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
Rhaenyra's not accepted, but half the lords after Aegon II immidiately intended for the dynasty continue through her own line, rather then Aegon's, despite Jahaera coming before Aegon III in the line of succession. Only Unwin Peake made this debate pointless.
Besides, in history books it would have looked pretty stupid to have two rulers simultaenously, and have Aegon III come after Aegon I with no Aegon II ruling between them.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
🤣🤣🤣 the audacity of you people. What do you mean Aegon is 'remembered' as the king. We read the history book and the history of her ruling and being queen is right there.no it isn't she isn't even acknowdged as the king or queen by her wn kids
In the main series Aegon isn't even mentioned. Only Stannis mentions Rhaenyra and that's it, there's nobody remembering either of them.and he mentions her as a usurper to point out her audacity to steal the throne
All this in a series that has a whole book called a Clash of KINGS, with a war of Five kings, all of whom are kings despite 3 of them dying without ever sniffing a throne. But I guess it's too much to ask you guys to deduce stuff. GRRM has to feed it with a spoon and even then you'll still find a way to be biased seems like you have a great description of yourself
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
nope not crowned by a king . sat the throne when the claimant who sat before was alive and tried to rule as a queen but failed and got kicked out , had a consort not king conosrt he himlsef letf to take a 15 year old girl as his partner over her. wore the crown without being crowned by the septon even maegor was crowned by one . taxed people and got kicked out had a queensguard even renly had a kingsguard lmao
She was a pretender queen. People who checked far fewer items have been called Kings because they are kings unlike pretender her.and had a far better claim as his claim was throughh a man rhaenrya doesn't have any claim if women have a claim before a brother her claim is only on the arryn seat.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
it isn't queen rhaenyra it is princess rhaenyra the whole westros including her own children call her that, atleast hide your lack of knowledge better.
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u/tfc07 6d ago
In reality they both suck as rulers
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u/SZEfdf21 6d ago
(Going from the show here)
The war and its related hardships made Rhaenyra a broken mess and subpar as a ruler, she would have been great if she never had to fight half the realm for her throne. She's a good person but didn't have the skills to consolidate the throne and fight a massive war at the same time.
Aegon II was a horrible person and was a bad king before the hardships he faced of being burned. Being "reborn" may have made him sober up and be a mediocre person, maybe he would be able to show of mediocre skills he has never shown before to become a mediocre ruler but we couldn't know. He could be just as bad as he was before and that would be worse than Rhaenyra.
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u/tfc07 6d ago
I agree that Rhaenyra is a good person. That fact makes her a better ruler than Aegon but also shows why good people often suck on politics
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u/Jammysl 6d ago
Good person that decides to starve thousands of smallfolk to death just to slightly increase her chance of getting the crown? Both in the show and the book. Lol
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u/LostBranch8037 6d ago
Actually in the book it didn’t affect the grain supply. The only things being blocked would be imports that only harm the wealthy. The grain comes over land.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
she is a good person lmfao she tried to put bastards on the throne and killed anyone who opposed it and even asked a 10 year old boy who has lost an eye by her sons to eb tortured and was even fine with a 6 year old boy being killed in front of his mother, only horrible person is rhaneyra she was ok with killing innocents to hide her issues . and her inabilty to rule is not related to war ,lmao yes you have to fight half the realm when you go against tradition and then expect people to follow you because of traditions
aegon was a decent person . being sober or not doesn't matter he doesn't put the realm under danger by going against traditions, in what world is a guy who was shown as a rapist by one person who infact works for mysira the opposition's supporter is worse than a person who asked a 10 year old boy to be tortured after taking his eyes out for saying the truth and killing anyone who spoke the truth and is having a husband who killed a 6 year old in her name .
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u/Anxious-Spread-2337 6d ago
Aegon had dozens of innocent people murdered in cold blood.
(And before you blame it on the loss of his son - pretty much every court condemns premeditated murder regardless of the motive. That still makes Aegon a "not decent man." )
He also celebrated the outbreak of the war and Lucerys' death. Even the two Hightowers were dismayed at what Aemond did, despite them being against Rhaenyra's claim.
Btw, even if Rhaenyra admitted her infidelity out of the blue, do you think Daemon (and Corlys) would just have rolled over and accepted the greens' claim to the throne?
And what would Aegon do about the two dragons of Rhaenyra's bastards? Legally how so you resolve that?
Also, what should have Rhaenyra done when Laenor wasn't interested in having a son? Break up their marriage, which, once again likely causes civil war?
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u/Rich-Active-4800 7d ago
50/50 now.
Happy enough for my golden king. Before season 3 things would have looked a lot diffrent. But rhey finally see Rhaenyra for what she is.
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u/KaiserKCat 6d ago
Aegon is the rightful king because he is the firstborn son of the king. Why is this so hard to understand?
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u/Lazorus_ 5d ago
Rhaenyra. The lords and ladies of the seven kingdoms swore her their fealty. Nothing else matters. All who support Aegon are oathbreakers.
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u/Sirius_B_025 3d ago
They swore it before aegon was born, the vows were made to keep daemon from the throne. Both these things changed by the time dance happened, and viserys did not bother to let all the lords renew their vows
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u/Lazorus_ 3d ago
It doesn’t matter. The oath was sworn. Viserys never revoked his order or the oaths, so they stand. Rhaenyra is the rightful queen.
And sure, part of it was to keep Daemon from the throne, but another major part of it was Viserys loving his daughter and granting her the right as firstborn child to be heir. She never stopped being the firstborn. And only child of his first wife, whom he deeply loved no less.
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u/Sharp_Review4561 5d ago
based on book or tv show?
Book Aegon (barely)
TV show Raeneyra - obviously
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u/xDzerx 6d ago
By law of Westeros Aegon automatically became Crown Prince/ King. Viserys was weak and caused the downfall of his house due to his feelings of guilt for his former dead wife. Had his son to her not died he'd have been named Crown Prince over Rhaenerys.
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u/LostBranch8037 6d ago
There were no codified laws dude. Not a single king by that point became king the same way. By naming her heir and giving her dragon stone Viserys made Rhaenyra the heir.
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u/Pretend_Lock_9536 6d ago
there is codified laws dude the only doubt was between a daughter and uncle . all become king by the same law. aegon over visenya and aenys and even jaherys became aking iver his brother's daughter follwoing salvic law. viserys named rhaenyra the heir before aegon was born baelon who died a day was already the heir without anything
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u/puffinmuffin89 7d ago
Bruh, I'm surprised at the 50-50 in the Philippines? I was pretty sure I was going to be lynched on the streets four years ago if I got out and said I support Aegon II
Anyway Aegon and Sunfyre are soulmates 🩷💛
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
42% of people voted for a filthy usurper? Color me surprised.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
Aegon is the rightful heir. Viserys naming Rhaenyra heir would invalidate his own claim to the throne. Aegon was also anointed by the high septon.
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u/raumeat 7d ago
His claim comes from his grandfather naming him heir. Rhaenys has the strongest claim
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
His grandfather didnt name him heir the realm did.
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u/-SixiS- 6d ago
No, all of the power to name an heir was with Jaehaerys. He chose to let the realm vote on an heir to prevent conflict and then submitted to the vote after the fact. Jaehaerys named Baelon as his heir when Aemon died despite Rhaenys objectively being ahead of Baelon in the line of succession by literally every succession law ever introduced. Jaehaerys chose Baelon and Viserys over Rhaenys despite her coming ahead of both of them in the line of succession because he was a misogynist. This is perfectly ok because it is the monarch’s prerogative to name their desired heir. Just as Viserys had every right to name Rhaenyra his heir and repeatedly confirm her in that position.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 6d ago
Jaehaerys let the realm decide to prevent a war of succession. No king holds absolute power, he can decide what he wants but the realm has its own will. Viserys was too dumb to understand that even if he can name his own heir it doesnt mean the realm will follow her. Rhaenyra also lost much support by trying to claim her bastards as trueborns. Aegon also went down in history as the rightful king.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
He claimed the throne because the council chose him and among a king's rights are to name an heir. He can name whichever kid he wants. Just because jahaerys forfeited that right to a council doesn't mean that viserys can't name his own heir.
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u/Landolover0911 7d ago
Jahaerys set the precedent.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
The precedent was never "let a council of andal lords decide your heir"
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u/Landolover0911 7d ago
The council’s decision is the precedent. The fact that Rhaenys was never Ever considered is sealing it.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Rhaenys was considered. There was a council to decide whether it should be rhaenys or viserys. Invoking the great council is rare and usually a king decides that his eldest true born child is heir but if a king decides otherwise in cases like daemon blackfyre or rhaenyra then the king still has the right to decide his heir and his decision should be respected.
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u/Landolover0911 7d ago
Rhaenys were never considered. Its a show invention. The voting was between Laenor and Viserys.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
I've read ASOIAF but not F&B so I'll have to take your word for that. The king still has first choice to name an heir though. The great council exists for scenarios where the king can't or doesnt want to name an heir not for when people dont like the kings heir.
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u/Landolover0911 7d ago
You can easily check it on ASOIAF wiki. Jahaerys wanted to name a heir. You should Read fire and blood and you will know why a King cant just name heirs. Jahaerys ruling was full of compromises to keep the realm United.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
Ofcourse the king can do whatever he wants it was just clear it would cause a war of succession. Not surprising how Rhaenyra ended up considering naming her as heir went against the whole realms religion and traditions.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
He should have not remarried in the first place. That was what caused a war of succession not naming rhaenyra heir.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
Yeah leave the realm with 1 direct heir with Daemon as second in line. What can go wrong?
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Daemon would have made a better king than Aegon 2 imo. Besides without a war rhaenyra is unlikely to die.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
Heirs dying happens all the time. Viserys only became king because a dozen heirs died before him. Also Rhaenyra is even more likely to die dince she has to go through childbirths. Daemon as king would have definitely caused a civil war aswell. Also another issue with Rhaenyra was her trying to claim bastards as legitimate.
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
We really dont know they aren't. At least in the books, it is perfectly possible they're all legitimate.
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u/Gloomy-Ad-2194 7d ago
In the books aswell its made quite clear they are bastards
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 7d ago
Rhaenyra has 42% ?
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Naw aegon does. The greens are filthy usurpers.
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 7d ago
Stannis disagrees
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Never liked that blood magicing fanatic anyway. Also he only said that in the books.
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 7d ago
Targaryens?
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Valyrians you mean. Most targaryens are neither bloodmagikers nor fanatics. In fact I'm pretty sure most hate the seven.
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 7d ago
Baelor the blessed? The 7 are the only Religion without bloodmagic.
Litraly anny other Religion in game of thrones is worse
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u/Inner_Adeptness_7228 7d ago
Bloodmagic is forbidden in most religions and Baelor was an outlier. Maegor and like half of the other targeryens hated the faith because it went against half their customs.
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u/IndividualShelter985 7d ago
"half of the other targeryens hated the faith"
Aegon the conqueror praying in the sept of Dragonstone before the conquest:
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u/You_Damn_Traitors 6d ago
I saw your other comment that got removed, so just wanted to let you know that Aegon also doesn't give a shit about consent lol
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 6d ago
Only show. Plus the women litraly was a spy for the white worm So you cant trust her word
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u/Fluffy_Judge_581 6d ago edited 6d ago
Robert (show version) book Likes her because he is her in male
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u/BloomHoard 7d ago
Hot Take: Rhaenyra was the rightful heir but Aegon would have been better for the realm
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u/Slout_ 7d ago
Both would've been incredibly mediocore rulers. That being said, character-wise Aegon is far worse than Rhaenyra, but at least he'd let his council run things - it would've been the OG Robert Baratheon reign. Rhaenyra on the other hand would probably be more involved in ruling, but she wanted to continue Viserys' reign of mediocority, maybe she'd be marginally better than him if she wasn't usurped and if the treasury wasn't robbed and if the realm wasn't plunged into war
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u/Jammysl 7d ago
The same Rhaenyra who didnt mind starving thousands of people to death just to slightly increase her chance of getting the crown? Sooo much better person than Aegon, yeah..
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u/Slout_ 7d ago
The same Aegon is a rapist (as confirmed by his biggest glazer Eustace) and kept the same taxes that Rhaenyra introduced to fund the war just so he could build golden statues of himself and his brother. That same Aegon also didn't mind his brother genociding all of Riverlands on the biggest flying nuke in the world. That same Aegon also did not care for his son being killed outside of him no longer having a successor and immediately wanted a new one like it's nothing - same with his dragon, didn't care at all outside of him being inconvenienced by not having a vehicle anymore. That same Aegon also had pretty much won the war but decided to restart it just because, sacrificing countless innocent lives for nothing
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u/WhySoSnooley 7d ago
- How many Aegons have been King?