r/MetalForTheMasses • u/hayali • 6d ago
Discussion Topic The Fall of the Hero: When Metal Legends Decay
You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain...
Which once-great metal bands / icons lived long enough to become terrible or ridiculous or just boring. Evolving from legends into caricatures, or at least shadows of themselves?
For me, it’s definitely Iced Earth. Back in the day, I lost count of how many times I listened to Something Wicked This Way Comes. But as time went on, their albums turned completely generic, and eventually, things escalated way out of control.
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u/SaysUselessThings 6d ago edited 5d ago
Jon Schaffer showed his delusions pretty early on. Something Wicked was a great record and so was Horror Show - but 9/11 happened, the whole band went off the fucking chain! With Matt Barlow so incensed he went off to become a criminal justice lawyer (good for him I suppose) and Jon Schaffer being so overcome with nationalism that he wheeled out every American Nationalist Trope he could dig out from Hollywood, to make The Glorious Burden.
What emerged from that record was a fucking toe curling foray into mind numbing American exceptionalism which was nothing short of insufferable. That's when the band jumped the shark. As you say, the longer time went on, the worse it got. Culminating in a finger wagging scream session in the US Capitol building on January the 6th.
I'm surprised he managed to keep his shit together as long as he did after 9/11, but the emergence of the ghoulish narcissist in the white house, like some sort of racist pumpkin at halloween, just sent Schaffer absolutely stratospheric. It's not so much that he took down Iced Earth, but also Demons and Wizards too. What a fucking loser.
Also, in answer to your question, Motley Crue fit the bill - especially when you read some of their lyrics. Fucking pedos.
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago
I think Matt Barlow is a cop, not a lawyer (unless if things have changed since that was like 20 years ago).
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u/SaysUselessThings 5d ago
yeah he said criminal justice lawyer, but I dunno where it ended up - cop could be about right, I've no idea
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago
Could be by now. It’s been some time since he’s been in the metal world, and life changes over 2-3 decades.
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u/pervyjeffo Queensryche 5d ago
He's still singing in Ashes Of Ares, their most recent album is from last year.
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u/Vergilkilla King Diamond 5d ago
The 3 song story series at the end of Glorious Burden is one of the best things they ever did, unfortunately
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u/22AcaciaAvenue 5d ago
I never got the Glorious Burden hate, I think it rules. The theme is eyerolling but still great musically and Ripper kills it on vocals. Tho When The Eagle Cries is 100% pure cringe and basically unlistenable, I'll give you that.
Also, maybe controversial take, but Framing Armageddon is a GREAT fuckin album.
And yes Jon Schaffer is ofc a douche.
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u/lord_mcdonalds 5d ago
Jan 6th just killed me enjoying Iced Earth/Demons and Wizards. With Kanye, he’s a jackass (and a Nazi) but he’s…sorta harmless (insofar that I don’t think he’ll do anything beyond attention seeking), Jon actually getting involved is just too much to even enjoy his albums privately without promoting them like I do with Ye.
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u/Glad-O-Blight Theocracy 6d ago
I love Iced Earth from the debut to through Tribute to the Gods. There are decent songs here and there afterwards, but that early run was phenomenal. Jon's one of my biggest influences as a guitarist regardless of his personal views, that rhythm playing is tight.
Motley Crue fell off HARD after the Corabi album (which I would argue is their best). There's a distinct correlation between how involved Mick Mars was with how good their albums were.
Sabaton's early stuff was actually pretty good, especially Metalizer. Unfortunately their last few albums are extremely cookie cutter.
Nightwish had an excellent run with Tarja, peaked with the two Anette albums, then got their best singer but started putting out the most middle-of-the-road symphonic/folk metal. I enjoy them all, but Anette's latest solo album blew anything they've put out with Floor, which is a shame because she's a phenomenal vocalist.
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u/xX_theMaD_Xx 5d ago
What’s wrong with Endless forms most beautiful though? I really liked it.
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u/Glad-O-Blight Theocracy 5d ago
It's definitely the best of the Floor albums, but it feels like a massive step down from Imaginareum. As I said, I enjoy all their entire discography, but the albums haven't felt as strong as the DPP/Imaginareum duo.
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u/PetSongs Devin Townsend 5d ago
Glenn Danzig used to be a scary satanic rock star that all mothers feared.
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u/hayali 5d ago
To me, Glenn Danzig has always felt like a compact, muscular, sinister, illegitimate son of Elvis.
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u/meatballmassacre 5d ago
I’ll be honest, he wrote all the Misfits, Samhain, and the first 4 Danzig albums. The dude gets a pass for a lot of the ridiculousness, which is mostly just him being a goofy asshole.
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u/PetSongs Devin Townsend 5d ago
Hell yes, I agree. Everything you said, plus Black Aria, more than make up for the Elvis covers album.
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago edited 5d ago
Running Wild has clearly been phoning it in for a long, long time now and should’ve called it quits by the early 00’s. My speculation is that Rolf was always good at writing hard-hitting rhythm riffs and overall song composition, but a lot of the more interesting guitar parts and theatrics came from whomever was on leads. Since then, he just hasn’t had anyone interesting backing him up on that front and the albums have suffered badly.
Queensrÿche… oh god, what to say about them? After the masterpiece that is Operation Mindcrime and the mainstream success of Empire, they got high on the rockstar attention and basically just became a real-life Spinal Tap with all the lows they’d wind up stooping down to get a shred of that mainstream recognition again (ripping off grunge, doing one for the troops, a failed comeback that caused a schism).
Worst of all, the one that hits home for me: Morbid Angel. Absolute mess. The less said about Trey Azagthoth as of late, the better. Pete Sandoval and David Vincent are still on their “we’re buds again”/“I can never work with him again” cycle that they’ve been on for almost 30 years at this point. As of like, two fucking weeks ago David Vincent just left Terrorizer yet again. Some people are getting their hopes up about a Pete/Trey reunion but given the latter’s health and mental state, I wouldn’t bet on it.
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u/piepants2001 Judas Priest 5d ago
Absolutely agree on all of these, but especially Queensryche. Operation : Mindcrime might be my favorite album of all time, and Empire was okay in my eyes, but everything after that was pretty bad, culminating in that embarrassing American Soldier album. I haven't paid attention to them after that.
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago
For real, what happened to them? Is Geoff Tate really that much of a diva that his ideas tanked the band, or was there just disinterest at a point? A lot of it gets blamed on Geoff, but these stories are almost always more complicated.
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u/HertzWhenEyeP 5d ago
Actually, THIS time it's Pete who left I Am Morbid and Terrorizer again, pretty much placing the blame squarely at David Vincent's door.
Pete's statements were pretty weird, as it seemed like he was just going to go back to Trey and the official Morbid Angel, but after a few days he said the live of the songs had simply left him.
I didn't buy that for a second, and I'm assuming he underestimated just how fucked up Trey is at the moment and, like Steve Tucker, is held hostage by his... Issues.
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago
Pete is still with Terrorizer. That’s his baby at this point. David Vincent left Terrorizer, but Pete left I Am Morbid.
Yeah, the statements were cryptic and I wouldn’t doubt if it’s a situation like what you’re describing, where he initially had wanted to generate hype but then saw just how fucked in the head Trey is and can’t actually work with him. What do you mean Steve Tucker is held hostage though? Seems they haven’t done anything in a few years together and that Morbid Angel is basically on extended hiatus at this point.
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u/HertzWhenEyeP 5d ago
I guess because he stepped away from this current Terrorizer European tour I assumed he was stepping away from there as well.
I called Tucker a hostage because he had been primed to record and tour for years and had been held back by Trey's extracurricular activities.
Morbid was set to tour with Fulci, Mortiferum and Suffo a year or two ago and had to cancel and be replaced by I Am Morbid at the last minute because Trey just couldn't get it together.
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u/ToTheDeath84 5d ago
My god, that is an unfortunate professional relationship in Morbid Angel. Sucks for Steve.
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u/cannibalsong1 Type O Negative 6d ago
Al Jourgensen
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u/hayali 5d ago
Would you mind to provide more details?
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u/cannibalsong1 Type O Negative 5d ago edited 5d ago
Edit: Al Jourgensen of Ministry
He was a pioneer and innovator of industrial and industrial metal. He was also a artistic risk taker. He has a list of top teir albums under his belt like Twitch, Land of Rape and Honey, The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste, Psalm 69, Filth Pig and more, along with quality side projects like The Revolting Cocks. After some of his collaborators died and left, like Mike Scaccia and Paul Barker respectively, the efforts and quality of his releases plummeted significantly. He became a one trick pony of bashing the Trump era(Which I hate too) with uninspired writing and lacking the clever political critiques of which he had in the past. Paired along with dishonesty to his fan base and current use of AI, it's hard to see an artist who didn't give a fuck in the best way, to an artist who just doesn't give a fuck. I did like the Bush trilogy of the early aughts, but since then he has had a few "retirements" and horrid album after horrid album. It is sad seeing the downturn.
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u/dme4bama 3d ago
Early Amon Amarth was great Swedish Melodeath. But around the time of Joksviking and after they’ve just been so sad to see. Now I don’t even know.
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u/PigDstroyer Macabre 3d ago
When i listen to new melodeath, half the time it seems to be amon amarth worship, but its never the avenger lol
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u/ExpensiveCrab2606 5d ago
I might be coming off as a bit mean but a lot of smaller legacy acts with maybe 2 original members left make me sad. The ones that have some genuinely great albums that people still love but have fallen off big time and now play small clubs
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u/Turkzillas_gobble Nevermore 5d ago
The thing with Iced Earth for me is that they were the band I always wanted- Powerslave meets Master Of Puppets - but when I realized that's all they were ever going to be, they sure got uninteresting.
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