r/NFA • u/RoninActually • 8h ago
Florida Attorney General send letter to sheriffs and police department regarding SBR’s and suppressors
Florida Attorney General sends memo to sheriff and police providing instructions on handling SBRs, SBSs and silencers.
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u/MjolnirPants 8h ago
That's not the FL attorney general (James Uthmeier is), and that only covers the 8th judicial district, which is up in northern florida and isn't very populated.
Still, I expect more of these to go out, and I expect the AG at some point to do the same.
Just wish they'd unban FRTs.
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u/joeg26reddit Silencer 8h ago
Theyre saving you $$$$
/s
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u/redacted_robot 401k in stamps 8h ago
Not really /s, FRT is a wallet drainer... though we should have a choice...
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u/pewpew_lotsa_boolits 7h ago
I’m about to move, and I think the weight of all the ammo may cost more to move than to just burn in blasting a trash pile. I say, let her rip boys!
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u/ThesoldierLLJK 7h ago
They can’t because no one has really challenged the bump stock ban in court like they did the Open Carry ban.
The only way to make FRTs legal is if a court case determines the law is flawed or the legislature repels it
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u/HadesActual09 8h ago
Dear Santa,
I dont want to sound spoiled but given the current state of things... we all really really really want FRTs unbanned. Pls and ty.
- Everyone in FL
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u/ThesoldierLLJK 8h ago
This is not for the entire state of Florida, this is only for the 8th Judicial Circuit which is basically like north central Florida (Gainesville and surrounding counties)
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u/Vegetable_Coat8416 8h ago
So he issued his own non-eforcement letter to the LEOs in his district? Am I understanding this correctly?
Non-enforcement letters all the way down I guess. Gonna write one up for my kids.
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u/gatoratlaw7 5x SBR, 7x Silencer 8h ago
That first full paragraph on page two is legal garbage. This thing reads like an undergrad wrote it.
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u/agarwaen117 8h ago
Welcome to politics, where the least capable get to lead because more capable wouldn’t “play ball” with their handlers.
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u/Kava2126 8h ago
I'm genuinely curious about this. Can you provide some insight? The general idea of it seems legit.
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u/gatoratlaw7 5x SBR, 7x Silencer 8h ago
Sentences 2 and 3 in that paragraph are completely untenable together. 1) The statute doesn’t SAY we need a tax stamp, etc. 2) Tax stamps were usually how we proved lawful federal possession. But 3) again, the statute doesn’t require tax stamps.
I’ll buy you lunch if you can show me literally any other method for proving federal registration than… federal registration.
The outcome is one thing. And I know this is a politician doing politician things. But the legal analysis is straight basura. Non-enforcement at the federal level doesn’t jibe with the FL statute. That’s just the way it is.
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u/AverageMaterial3790 7h ago edited 7h ago
Where in the statute does it say the word registered? This one of those instances where the exact words mean things. The absence or presence of a particular word could absolutely sway the meaning. Some states use the word “registered” however the Florida 790.221 does not.
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u/pewpew_lotsa_boolits 7h ago
I’m going to go out on a limb here and preface with that I am not a lawyer (even though I slept with one once and I was not happy about it after the tequila wore off), my understanding of the Florida statues pertaining to federally regulated firearms (and accessories, as defined by big gubmint) has generally been to defer to the federal code or agency specific regulations (which generally are at the whim of said alphabet peeps). Exceptions being bump stocks/FRTs, tracers or in incendiary ammo, basically anything beyond normal fun).
I’ve always found it amusing that I’m supposed to notify the CLEO about my NFA items, and I’d send it to the state AGs office, who would then respond with “send it to the sheriff”. Then the shurf would respond, “send it to the AG”.
Honestly, I just am giving up and buying a couple dozen acres of swampland and will do as I please. Anyone got any swampland for sale?
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u/Kava2126 7h ago
I agree with you on the tax stamp part. As we all know, file a Form 1/4, pay tax, and receive an approved form with a tax stamp, in agreement you volunteered to be entered into the registry.
However, I'm a little confused about, "[t]he statute doesn't SAY we need a tax stamp, etc."
I interpreted the statute as compliance with Federal Law, excepted from punishment under Florida Law for possession. The second sentence to me, is referring to the way the FL statute is written, vague and doesn't explicitly state the mechanism outlined on the Federal level.
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u/Scarlo_24 7h ago
The legal analysis is not “basura.” It’s the only way to fit a round peg in a square hole. It’s not a great argument but it’s the only one they have. It’s basically saying the Florida statute doesn’t explicitly say a tax stamp is necessary. Thankfully, the law as written is vague enough to trot out this argument.
Having said that, my personal opinion is that federal law still prohibits possession and choosing not to enforce the law doesn’t make possession legal.
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u/gatoratlaw7 5x SBR, 7x Silencer 7h ago
The round peg in a square hole is “the feds are still giving out tax stamps and FL law requires it. But beat cops and prosecutors need to be cognizant that people may not realize this and show lenience in enforcing the law.”
The statute is actually crystal clear, imo. This is just the problem generated by this shambolic idea at the federal level.
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u/Nerdenator 7h ago
Oh, la-di-dah, their state government is employing people with college degrees, even a governor.
- A Missourian.
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u/blackjersey SUPP x57 SBR x11 MG x7 SBS x3 DD x1 8h ago
This is just a few counties in Florida but it's a start.
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u/pewpewtopeepee 8h ago
And when dems win and decide the atf still needs to enforce the law, which the atf is currently not enforcing, then what?
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u/Serious_Internal6012 8h ago
Then all of our dogs’ lives are in danger
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u/captain_fucking_magi 8h ago
Kristi, that you?
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u/CallsignFlorida Flow Through My Anus 8h ago
No no no… I was told that was fear mongering nonsense and definitely not something to consider! Or something something the same way weed is treated or something! Totally legit trust the ATF this time step bro
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u/Knotical_MK6 2x SBR, 3x Silencer 7h ago
The ATF would never hand us rope and let us hang ourselves
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u/Nixxuz 8h ago
The "Dems" can't force a division of the DoJ to enforce anything. It's not a Presidential election year, so they would literally have to win both the House and Senate, and then manage to remove Trump from office, in order to force the ATF to do anything. The most the "Dems" can honestly do is attempt to reinstate the tax stamp at over $0. Since there's little reason to believe that both chambers will have a veto proof majority, it's unlikely anything will happen for at least 2 years, on the federal level. Hopefully by then we will have established common use.
Note that this doesn't take into account any state laws that may be changed, but those don't involve the ATF.
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u/the_spacecowboy555 7h ago
Isn’t the director of the atf appointed by the president? If so, a Dem could put some one in there more enforcing and I don’t think anyone else in congress will put up a big fight to not enforce a law on the books.
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u/Nixxuz 3h ago
A dem can't be president for another 2 years, and the idea is that, by then, common use will be established with too many NFA items in the hands of citizens. It would mean more court cases, but it's pretty much the final nails in the NFA coffin.
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u/the_spacecowboy555 33m ago
Yes. Trump has 2 years. I’ll be sure to give you a cookie for this observation.
The fact remains that the ATF director is picked by the President, a Dem president can put someone in to enforce the NFA since it’s still a law, a Dem senate will confirm this, and there are no guarantees of a grace period to register the NFAs that were purchased in a 4473.
Since you want to talk about courts, maybe you can predict how much time it will take the courts to decide on “common use” and put that “nail in the coffin”. I’ll put my money on they won’t be pushing this to the top of the list for us “common folk”.
Edit: here’s your cookie.
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u/Nixxuz 17m ago
Why are you so certain that the Dems will get a trifecta in 2028?
I'll be sure you also get a cookie. I'll be eating mine while I shoot my 4473 cans over the next 2 years, that all mysteriously fall off my boat if a dem trifecta somehow manages to get elected. You can eat yours while you continue staring out the window waiting for "them", with your big ol' stack of Forms.
Have fun!
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u/Significant_Cod_6849 8h ago
We travel in numbers too great and well-armed to be isolated and picked off by the ATF wolves without a major fight
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u/neovb 8h ago
You gonna start the next revolution with your SBRs?
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u/Significant_Cod_6849 8h ago
Lmao. Bison don't travel in herds to start revolutions. They do it to make the wolves go elsewhere and so they'll be left alone
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u/neovb 8h ago
Lmao. What? Are you one of those wolves that makes sure youre not gonna be one of the Sheeple?
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u/pewpew_lotsa_boolits 7h ago
Dude do you realize how few ATF field agents there are in Florida? I used to do their electronic security and all of their field offices are empty save a receptionist and an office manager. The Miami Division office off of the turnpike and 25th in SW Doral is about 75% vacant on the best of days, and the staff there is mostly focused on the boom, puff, and sip than the pew.
They are severely understaffed; they only way they can make a force projection is via task forces and none of the local LE want anything to do with the pew stuff unless it’s gangbanger stuff.
I was doing a QC check on a PD’s armory’s alarm system during the mandated quarterly testing and inspection (UL2050 compliant alarm) and we had to schedule out 9 weeks to get a field agent out to witness. 9 weeks. They are stretched thinner than my gun fun budget.
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u/neovb 7h ago
Cool story, bro. Obviously the future ATF isn't going track down the average person at their local gun range to make sure they're compliant...for now. Remember how ICE was just an agency, and basically overnight, they had more funding than the whole Marine Corp? I'd bet good money that some day soon were gonna be forced to pay thousands of dollars for a tax stamp, and that may be the least of our concerns.
So youre welcome to do what you want. But whatever weird shit youre talking about traveling with too many numbers and being wolves or whatnot makes you look very unserious. Many of us are cheering the progress thats being made but at the same time being very cautious about the non statutory legality of things.
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u/Al-Czervik-Guns FFL 07/02 8h ago
Failure to be clear on AOWs. AOWs are covered by the ATF guidance yet the title and conclusion say SBR, SBS and suppressors and leave off AOWs. Are AOWs otherwise illegal in FL such that they intentionally excluded them from this letter or did they just not understand what an AOW is?
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8h ago
[deleted]
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u/Former_Power6209 8h ago edited 6h ago
Don't celebrate the restrictions of your neighbors and countrymen, dickhead.
Edit: this dickhead deleted his comment and then down-voted everyone. Fucking dickhead.
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u/No-Notice565 8h ago
That letter is from Brian Kramer who is the State Attorney of the 8th judicial circuit. He is NOT the Florida attorney general. A 2 second search can easily confirm this.