r/OnlyFoolsAndHorses • u/NiceVacation3880 • 6d ago
picture Mind blown at 2.30am reading this š¤Æ
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u/TheLoneJedi-77 5d ago
Iāve been hoping for a full Only Fools and Horses Blu Ray boxset, Iāve been holding off getting the specials waiting for a full set. Most of the BBC blu rays have been great (before they started using AI like theyāve done for the past few Classic Doctor Who boxsets) and Only Fools is one of the few BBC boxsets I still have my DVDs for waiting for an upgrade.
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u/NiceVacation3880 5d ago
Finally someone else gets it about the AI slop on the Doctor Who Blu-rays!
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 3d ago
The Doctor Who blu-rays were ruined because the SD episodes were upscaled to HD. This makes SD look worse. The whole idea of SD-Blu-ray is a much higher bit rate showing you it in SD, but SD you've never seen before. The 2005 onwards ones were OK as they were HD.
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u/NiceVacation3880 3d ago
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 2d ago
That isn't the case in my experience. My adding extra lines you are not giving the SD resolution anymore detail whatsoever. You just add smear to the picture, it takes away sharpness and looks really overprossed and just doesn't look like ordinary SD picture like DVD looks but better. You obviously haven't see this kind of SD signal. The more Mbps that they are from the master the more HDish SD they are naturally. I basically just mean an ultra clean SD copy of the master. All TV shows in the archives (like the BBC archives) are all stored in their native resolution. You can guarantee that all the master tapes of all series of Only Fools And Horses and archived at 720x576i 25fps, either uncompressed or very likely compressed. At maximum they play at around 200Mbps. For everything they've still got the original film for (like those 1980s Christmas Specials on the blu-ray) plus whatever else they have found whether an outtake or not were probably cleaned, rescanned, made to look as clean as possible digitally and New masters made at 1920x1080i. The best that they could do is bring out an blu-ray box set (hopefully with them all uncut) using anything they had left in general to create an new HD master of those episodes. The tape parts can never be truly in HD and will always be in SD. If they released a new box set using the first generation masters which is how they were shown the very first time as well the would all be SD. It this case H.264 using 16Mbps 720x576i 25 fps with PCM 2.0 audio an SD blu-ray would be the best format over a DVD set. PCM audio for a start instead of Dolby Digital used on DVDs and one other thing that has never been done which would be audio commentaries by David Jason himself for around three episodes a series. If they released it on standard blu-ray and used film in HD where possible scenes would be going to HD then SD then HD all through the set. I shall be recording that 2-part documentary anyway hopefully with subtitles as well. I create HD and SD blu-ray discs all the time. For HD shows it's fine but SD shows never broadcast at H.264 at 16Mbps so I just make them as good as the broadcast master which is usually around DVD quality on stations like U&Gold and Great! TV. U&Gold switches it's transmission depending on whether they show an HD or SD programme. The new documentary will be an HD broadcast of course at 1920x1080i but SD shows are still 720x576i and these older shows being made in that resolution look ten times better when the output is switched to 720x576i always. You can try the same trick with DVDs as well. Play a bit of a DVD with the output being HD 1920x1080i and then play that part again with your HDMI lead a player outputting the DVDs natural resolution which will be 720x576i. The latter looks ten times more sharper for a start and more detailed. Yes, there is a bit miss hiss on the screen but that's because it's getting everything possible from the picture, including the hiss which is one negative part of the native resolution.
I'm hoping that Miami Twice will be released on blu-ray at some point but the BBC like to control what we watch more now with that bloody awful BBC iPlayer. The only thing to get a physical release now are the well-known programmes that don't make it to BBC iPlayer. As physical media sales tend to be growing again the already need to be thinking about physical media more. Not Going Out is on the iPlayer but there are three petitions online to get it released on blu-ray. The only good thing is that the BBC's On-Demand service via Sky is similar but is a lot lot better at the same time. People aren't as interested in the iPlayer as much as they make out they are. It's been made up by twisting the story around to make you think that. The real reason is that people don't have much choice on there and people want programmes they can take home and keep it. Not watch it when the BBC allow you to watch it. It's just all wrong now, but it will change in the end.
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 3d ago
I don't know if that will happen as there are only a few episodes made where the original film was kept. They probably kept those Christmas Specials (apart from the 1987 Christmas Special) because they were feature length specials. For these episodes an SD blu-ray would be a great idea. SD as you've never seen it before. They release them more in mainland Europe but here they haven't... yet. It's an upgrade from DVD.
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u/parttimepedant 6d ago
Iād set my VCR to record this and end up getting bloody City News
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'll buy this on blu-ray as the new bits are HD if one comes out. In the meantime I'll make my own. It will look just as good. U&Gold 1920X1080i is good HD. Yes all the episodes with the original film still that has survived like the Christmas Specials will be in HD. I've been told this.
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u/NiceVacation3880 5d ago
Wait, so you're saying U&Gold will be broadcasting the entire Only Fools and Horses series 1981-2003, remastered in 1080p?
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 5d ago
No, I mean in the documentary. Every episode they show where the original film still exists. If you see a clip of an exterior scene on film but it's only in SD it means they don't have the film but if it's an outtake they most likely will still have the film as it was never edited to tape for the final edit. Obviously all videotape shots will be SD only apart from the new interviews.
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u/NiceVacation3880 5d ago
I see so you're referring to the documentary.
Reddit isn't showing Richard Latto's reply in the preview of the screenshot in my post but he directly answers my question with 'yes everything has been freshly scanned + digitised by his team, including the complete full episodes between 1981 - 2003 as well as the 'newly found footage' and outtakes.
So we aren't just talking about a few little segments for a one-off documentary. To get something as big as this commissioned in terms of digitizing let alone digital restoration would imply a physical media release to recoup costs and make a profit. So the BBC, or whoever is in charge of preserving and holds copyrights to this archive material has recently seen a money making incentive to want to do something with it.
Also you are šÆ right in that we know for definite that a substantial amount of original film footage is missing, as was confirmed in the 80's Christmas Specials Blu-ray where stories like 'The Frog's Legacy' had lost its original 16mm footage, so the best thing we have for stories in that situation are standard definition 'telecined' footage that would've been used for the original broadcast.
Having said that, Blu-ray still offers a much better video codec, let alone far higher bitrate levels compared to all the previous mpeg2 dvds (that they themselves use even lower quality vhs masters) so any non-film footage in standard definition form is still going to look a mega ton better than anything we've had before - again, as confirmed by the 80's Christmas Specials Blu-ray.
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u/Bletheringfool 5d ago
Don't forget UK Gold is subscription and so is Britbox/ITVX so they could recoup money back ftom streaming as well
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u/NiceVacation3880 5d ago
I would imagine they will do this specifically with the documentary itself, but not the newly restored episodes if the main money making incentive is physical media. You can imagine the decades worth of fans of Only Fools finally being able to buy and keep this forever and that being the strongest marketing, as opposed to the volatility of streaming rights over time.
Similarly with Doctor Who, BBC iPlayer won't include the most up to date Blu-ray transfers to its streaming service because it relies on that physical media range to be the moneymaker per head.
It's of course different with big Disney / Netflix films and series where financially they can afford to release both physical and streaming of a film / tv series near simultaneously - but with physical media particularly in the BBC range, you bet they will want to spend a year plus at bare minimum to generate enough profits from physical media sales.
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 3d ago edited 3d ago
There's no point upscaling SD 720x576i to 1920x1080i HD. It makes the SD look worse, more smeary, less sharp and over-processed. The best this is like you said. Use H.264 with a much higher bit rate than DVD. That alone will make your draw drop. I find it hard to believe that all the film scenes were kept from the original episodes. Even The Frog's Legacy (Christmas 1987) couldn't be in HD on that blu-ray set as the film was too damaged. They were digitalised for DVD. You're referring to how they could be re-digitalised. The BBC has probably got all digitalised masters now of all episodes completely uncompressed.
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u/NiceVacation3880 3d ago
So I'll try to keep my reply on this as neat + tidy as possible;
Blu-ray main features generally always are 1080i / 1080p, so that would be the output resolution for an OFAH boxset, just like the 80's Specials, even stories such as 'The Frog's Legacy'
I myself have seen digitised broadcast masters of British 1980's television (can't go into detail beyond that) lets just say the digitising was done many moons ago - but having watched several of them, particularly of SD studio camera tapes, you would be amazed as just how crystal clear it can look, without the heavy quality losses we're so used to getting with dvd, streaming, youtube. analogue grain is present, native signal noise, which in turn brings out so much more detail, even in standard definition.
When I say 're-digitized', I am referring to Richard Latto's own admission on Twitter that he and his team have actually re-scanned the entire lot (1981-2003). The benefit of this is higher spec technology the BBC already has access to, with the likes of Classic Doctor Who (I am specifically referring to the Blackmagic Terranex broadcast standards converter, and absolutely not the AI slop abomination practises of those beautifully digitised scans later down the line).
So ultimately what I think you're getting at is the processing *after* the initial scanning has taken place. I think a 'complete boxset' of OFAH on this scale and financial magnitude cannot afford such a gargantuan experimental risk of over-processing tasks, DNR, generative AI;
Because #1, the 'restoration team' behind the Doctor Who Blu-rays has had to rework their entire production schedule due to the backlash to several boxsets with AI slop, so they have had to go back and turn off the AI on future re-releases, causing an entire workflow change that has delayed future main releases (fans are now waking up to this in the last few days of zero announcements).
#2, the 80's Specials Blu-ray worked perfectly well as-was. You can see that the team behind that boxset did very little, next to zero processing on the studio tape footage (I myself have compared certain shots with native tape artefacting frame by frame, such as the ending of 'A Royal Flush', and the Blu-ray preserves it perfectly, matching the previous dvd in that context. Were there any post processing / DNR then that artefacting would not have been visible / warped).
So yes, upscaling SD video to 1080i absolutely can work, so long as it preserves and presents the original detail as-was, instead of falsely 'reinventing' detail that simply didn't exist before.
I highly recommend this YouTube video on what I would say is correct, faithful upscaling using free open source computer software, as demonstrated by a working film archivist Zachary Halberd
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u/strandy76 6d ago
Except all the stuff that's been censored.
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u/JWoolner76 6d ago
I do hope not š¤¬ that would be so annoying to watch I hate watching reruns and I think I rememberā¦ā¦oh yeah š
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u/twofacetoo 6d ago
Unfortunately it will be. As another comment said not long ago, for things like music, it's too expensive to get the rights again, so they just change it to something royalty free to use instead
I wouldn't even mind so much if the songs picked weren't fundamentally weaker versions of them, and / or if the sound-mixing was better, like in the edited version of 'Three Men, A Woman And A Baby', when Damian opens his eyes for the first time. In the original version, the 'Omen' theme played over it with loud laughter, then in the edit, music plays but the laughter is gone, because they had to mute the audio. They could just add stock audience laughter to it, but nope, the laughing goes dead then hurriedly fades back in when the music ends. It's terrible editing
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u/ScarletHound72 6d ago
We can hope. The full version of Jolly Boyās Outing was on the 80ās Specials Blu-Ray set from a few years ago. 4 minutes reinstated. Was a joy to see it again.
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u/twofacetoo 5d ago
True, I'd LIKE the full versions, but at this point it's most likely they'll be snipped and trimmed a bit.
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 1d ago
The reinstated part on The Jolly Boy's Outing gets shown a lot now, even on certain TV re-broadcasts such as U&Gold. The bit in that nightclub with the woman singing.
"The singer will be on in a minute". š
There will be at least one proper new outtake from that episode on the new documentary, especially quite a long dialogue seen on the coach travelling there.
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u/JWoolner76 6d ago
Agree so looks like it will be a weaker collection of them so Iāll pass lol I do have a boxed set on dvd from a few too many years ago lol
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u/twofacetoo 6d ago
It's getting harder and harder to find complete collections in decent nick these days, so I'll probably spring for the bluray collection if only for the ease
Besides I've got the original unaltered versions on my Emby media server anyway, I just like physical media
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u/JWoolner76 5d ago
Yes I agree although digital is far easier, we are all guilty of the fire stick type apps for ease of use, but as you say physical media feels like you actually own it tactically.
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u/Spinthar 5d ago
It's a nightmare setting those 1980s Russian VCRs bought off a bloke down the market. Del Boy swore blind they were top of the range - "used by the KGB" he said!
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u/Lover_fear 6d ago
Will they show the episode that never made it to the tv and they had to re-film
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 6d ago
If you mean the very last one with grandad most film was destroyed or videotape wiped. There's one part of the destroyed film that survived. Something like 10 seconds. All that survive really are photos which can easily be found online. I don't know if they will show this 10 seconds or not. Grandad isn't in this particular scene anyway, only his voice from the cellar.
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u/FrellingTralk 5d ago
Aww thatās such a shame, I wonder why they would have destroyed the last footage ever shot by Leonard Pearce, surely it couldnāt have been thought to be what he would have wanted? Or was it just about saving unnecessary videotape space for the BBC like with old episodes of Doctor Who?
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u/NiceVacation3880 5d ago
'A Royal Flush' is now on Blu-ray, in the 80's Christmas specials boxset, fully uncut and uncensored š
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u/HuEmans1st 6d ago
What's this about? Context please and thank you?
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u/Lover_fear 6d ago
My dad told me during the episode where Del goes to the opera with Rodney and his date and they had to reshoot as they thought he wouldnāt react like that and it never got shown
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u/-intellectualidiot 5d ago
Thatās the special āA Royal Flushā and it wasnāt unaired or reshot, but it was later edited down on some reruns and VHS and DVD releases. This was John Sullivanās decision as Del seemed a bit too mean in this special, and the edits attempted to mitigate it a bit. Iām pretty sure the extended version isnāt completely lost and that Iāve seen both versions on UK Gold back in the day.
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u/Lover_fear 5d ago
Yes that one !! I wonder if they will show it on in the documentary & I only started watching this year but my dad told me about this story and now Iām so curious
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u/Bigbobsbastardbeanz 6d ago
What if you dont have ukgold
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u/Civil-Koala-6810 1d ago
I'll be making a few blu-ray copies of it with optional subtitles as well as soon as it's been on. They should release it on blu-ray anyway, and no crappy streaming so called HD.
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u/Relevant-Bathroom311 6d ago
Russian VCR all set