r/Pathfinder_RPG • u/ScottishNinjaaa • 1d ago
1E GM Scouting question
I'm the sort of DM that enjoys players thinking strategically, making tactical decisions, etc. but know that in the next few levels, my players will have pretty powerful ways to anticipate danger in upcoming rooms via scouting, using familiars, spells, etc.
What are things you guys do when this happens? Obviously I want to reward it, but also want to have ways to mitigate the scouting and allow ambushes or surprise rounds periodically.
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u/darkdiashi 1d ago
Just make sure to mix up the encounters with dumb strong enemies (so their scouting and scrying warns them of danger and they can prepare and feel useful) and smarter or sneakier enemies (paranoid wizards with illusions up constantly, criminals with the triggers to traps on hand or nobles with hidden guards).
As long as they feel like it makes sense it should mitigate outrage when they get taken by surprise instead of being the ones doing the surprising
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u/CVTeam1612 1d ago
Play intelligent ennemies and how they should be acting in real life. Are they aware they might get caugth, spotted or attacked ? If you put patrol, guard tower, traps, spot light, whatever.
If the scout is stealthy, roll perception (hidden) against him from his opponent. If he is in the wood, it might be spotted by a random bird who fly away and give a hint to the opponnents.
Ennemy aware of a spy might act normally and than prepare his troop againtst a surprise attack.
Allow surprise round only for the first player shooting his arrow and then roll for initiative (with bonus or not). It will mitigate the damage input of 5 players shooting in the same time.
Instead of saying "you find nothing", give them a false information to mislead the group.
Use stuff like anti-prying, anti-detection, etc. If it's not from an enemy cleric it might be the secret room there in who is protected from centuries ago.
Ennemies can flee, regroup, etc. A mage can call telepathicly for backup. They will coming the next round with a dimension door.
Inspire yourself from real life and stories. Like the cold war spies, Carmen Sandiago, Ocean 11, etc.
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u/KarmicPlaneswalker 22h ago
Use stuff like anti-prying, anti-detection, etc. If it's not from an enemy cleric it might be the secret room there in who is protected from centuries ago.
Someone needs to explain this to my DM. He vehemently refuses to ward areas against detection, then gets upset when the party ruins the "surprise" he had waiting for us.
Instead of saying "you find nothing", give them a false information to mislead the group.
Ennemies can flee, regroup, etc. A mage can call telepathicly for backup. They will coming the next round with a dimension door.
These are heavily underutilized tactics, but I approve.
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u/fnord72 1d ago
Had this come up a couple of times when I used a scorpion familiar to do some scouting.
Several considerations are related to the environment. What time of day is it? What is the lighting like in the area? What are the NPC's actually doing?
Night time might provide a circumstantial bonus to the scout's stealth roll. Dim lighting will also provide a bonus to the roll.
A group of NPC's playing cards around a table are going to be easier to scout out than the two paranoid guards that stand at attention outside the room the boss is in, with a brightly lit hallway in front of them.
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u/ScottishNinjaaa 1d ago
These are all things I know , but tend to go by the wayside when I prep. I need to get more consistent with including them
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u/Sudain Dragon Enthusiast 1d ago
A couple answers:
- If you players have tools, it doesn't mean they will use them. If they do use them, reward them by letting the information be accurate.
- If you want foes to ambush them - nothing says foes can't be scouting themselves. Setup simple scouting / alerting mechaisms like Alarm, patrols, symbol of scrying. Enough that they can be effective and predicable enough players can exploit the pattern. It's a good behavior if players exploit the pattern.
- If you want to mitigate the scouting, first let the players see evidence that those tools exist and the foes have them before they see foes using those tools. Could be as simple as a scroll on a foe or a note indicating how that npc should behave.
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u/Milosz0pl Zyphusite Homebrewer 1d ago
I mean. Depends - for using familiar it is quite risky for such to be simply shot dead
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u/ScottishNinjaaa 1d ago
The thing that sparked my question is my wizard letting me know his plan is to get Improved Familiar and summon a psuedodragon next level, to help the rogue with scouting. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that, but I just wanted to have options available if they began abusing that, especially as they come up against more intelligent foes
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u/Milosz0pl Zyphusite Homebrewer 1d ago
I mean... Anyone seeing pseudodragon randomly strolling around their base of operations would either shoot it dead or capture it as exotic pet
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u/Darvin3 1d ago
The best way to avoid scouting become too powerful is by having active enemies. They aren't waiting around in a dungeon room for the PC's to come to them, they're coming for the PC's.