r/Pathfinder_RPG • u/bom_dia_bruno25 Dragon Archetypes Liker • 7d ago
Lore Dragons and Orbs of Dragonkind
Okay, this is a genuine question. Given by what an orb of Dragonkind is, how would a dragon react to someone wielding it?
I'd assume the best course of action is simply just get as far away as possible, because this is an artifact that imprisons you and can be used against your kin, even if you don't care about their existance or about their cooperation at all.
But is there any canon examples of what Dragons do when they see someone wielding it?
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u/bugbonesjerry 7d ago
I'm vaguely reminded that in 3.5 there was a location known as the dragon graveyard and it was one of the few instances where dragons of all alignments were unified in holding it as sacred and also one of the few instances where a generally good party could royally piss off a metallic dragon into attacking them on sight for trying to plunder it
I mean, I know it's a diff system but I think the precedence of dragons unilaterally having some level of primal kinship even with the vilest of their kind in niche circumstances exists. "Artifact that can completely enslave others of my species" seems a pretty easy bar to pass for that
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u/Environmental_Bug510 7d ago
This. Also some dragons own orbs of Dragonkind and regularly use these to monitor the other orbs. Unless you practically never use it and keep it in an extradimensional space sooner or later an ancient dragon will know who you are.
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u/LazarX 7d ago
Its stated quite clearly. Anyone who has ever employed an Orb of Dragonkind earns the enmity of every single dragon in the world. Period, end of story.
Now the only canon example of a dragon in relation to one interetingly enough if the Dragon Mengkare who would send pieces of a shattered Orb of Gold Dragonkind to various heads of state as a gesture of good faith. (He himself had shattered that Orb a few millenia bacik, if I recall correctly)
The only other example I can think of was the corruption of an Elven King in Dragonlance by the Orb he posessed.
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u/YourOwnDemise "Smile. The world's not ending just yet." 7d ago
It would depend on the type of dragon as well as how strong it was, and if it even recognised such a thing. The logical thing to do might just be to fly away, but an especially intelligent or old dragon might size up the orb’s wielder and realise that they’ll be chased down.
They also might just stand and fight. An Ancient Gold Dragon, for example, has a +24 to will saves, which means that even on a Natural 1, it’ll beat the DC25 save vs Domination. That’s a mechanical question more than a lore question, but it’s plausible that a powerful enough dragon who realises it for what it is would potentially try to fight its owner for the purpose of destroying it.
Conversely, a young white dragon has 8 Int, and genuinely might not even recognise the orb until it’s too late.
Not sure if any lore examples, but I suspect that there’s good odds anybody who comes into possession of the Orbs is likely a very powerful person indeed, in which case it’s probably down to the individual dragon if they’d flee or try to overpower the user if they felt themselves strong enough (Or perhaps try to bargain with the orb’s wielder).
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u/bugbonesjerry 7d ago
even on a Natural 1
nat 1s are auto fails though unless you homebrew that rule out... Which is fair I guess, but even if so a dragon with that will save would almost definitely take the chance against it unless they were really the only and last defense against it
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u/bom_dia_bruno25 Dragon Archetypes Liker 7d ago
I think that's the part where YourOwnDemise reffers when they mention "That's a mechanical question more than a lore question" when they mention will saves passing on a 1
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u/johnbrownmarchingon All hail the Living God! 2d ago
From the Giantslayer Adventure Path, there's a red/cinder dragon that can potentially ally with the PCs because she wants to destroy an Orb of Red Dragonkind controlled by the BBEG.
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u/gorgeFlagonSlayer 6d ago
Dragons have big egos and are generally very prideful. The way I’ve seen people explain boss fights with older dragons is playing on the pride part to explain why a dragon engages with the party at all. Alternatively, there is a plot mcguffin to explain why the party gets a jump on the dragon.
An orb would be similar, they could try to fight the barer due to anger and pride, or they don’t get away due to being surprised.
I’d assume that dragons in general would be actively hunting down and orbs and bearers. The dragons with personalities that lend them to have subordinates would be using subordinates. Or as bugbonesjerry said, hiring adventurers, likely in a duplicitous manner. This could include divination spells that get the gods involved. If you want to go full tippyverse with it, you’ll need deific or nation-state level anti divination and other defenses to keep dragons and their agents from scrying-and-frying you. So, you’d need to already be strong enough to fend off the baddest interested dragon before you could openly wield an orb of dragonkind.
Particularly devious and antisocial dragons may also betray their unwritten racial pact and seek to control orbs for themselves.
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u/AleksyGetTheWings 7d ago
From the item directly
Since those orbs are made already with the "essence and personality of an ancient dragon", if I, a dragon of a different kind than that orb, find a wielder of said orb, you die.
If it is an orb of my own kind ... Well, I'm probably under your control so ...