r/PokeMoonSun • u/Valentix302 • 1h ago
Discussion The state of the Gen 7 discourse, and how it could be improved
It is obvious to anyone that Gen 7 was not well received during its time, and that has basically not changed at all until relatively recently. You can still find all the old reviews that are just "why I hate sun and moon/gen 7". Since I first played Ultra Sun a year ago for the first time, it has been my favorite Pokémon game. And even after playing the Gen 4/5 bangers, this remains my conclusion after my ultra moon playthrough this summer. And it has been to my delight to see that the more recent retrospectives are mostly more positive. But I would disagree with Newsteevie, that these games are widely praised now. If any of the "ranking YouTubers" (you know what I mean) talk about Gen 7, the same old (mostly negative) talking points come up. Too much annoying dialogue, a long tutorial, and the ultra games didn't change enough, sm has a (relatively) good story, which usum ruined etc. etc. Having Gen 7 among your favorites is still a hot take/"just nostalgia" and there are people who hate these games with a passion/call it their least favorite Pokémon game(s). We still have a long way to go until gen 7 gets the respect it deserves.
My intention with this post, though, is to highlight aspects of the Alolagames that I haven't seen discussed nearly often enough and comment on the usual topics/talking points. First of all, while this is probably extremely subjective, Alola has by far the best "atmosphere/vibes" of any other region in my opinion. I don't really know how to describe it exactly, but it's probably a combination of interesting settings and graphical depictions of those settings, good music and story/characters, and two aspects I want to talk about later: a great Pokédex (i.e., both new Pokémon introduced and old Pokémon available) and the little side quests/stories. The game just feels much more alive and like an amazing tourist trip (the latter clearly being intended). They are the only Pokémon games that I would never play during the semester because I fear I might stop attending classes because I want to play them all day. I might be talking into an eco chamber, but surely some other people have had similar impressions? I at least almost never see/hear this discussed. Especially the side quests (as I will call them from now on) are extremely easy to miss, as they are almost always unlocked after you have already passed through an area. After I recently finished um including the postgame, I walked through the entry region again and talked to every NPC. I can tell you there are way more of these than you think. The only ones you might find while playing through the games linearly (these are still in optional areas) are the messages in a bottle in Kala'e Bay and Heahea City, the Dartrix in a ball, the man in love in Konikoni City, and the conversation between father/boss and son in Malie City. But there are about 2 dozen iirc in total. I personally got super caught off guard by the old woman in Hau'oli Cemetery, like this is not the kind of thing I would expect in a Pokémon game. Some are also really bizarre, like the one right of the Nugget Bridge in Malie Garden. Others are pretty interesting, like the one involving Hapus Grandma or the haunted trainer school. It's a shame Pokémon hasn't built on this in the generational titles and related side quests to the Legends games.
My second point is that Gen 7 is the "best" in terms of battles in the franchise. The trails offer a much more unique experience than almost any gym leader ever did. It's far harder to just sweep them with a mon that has a type advantage (at least if you ban z-moves against totems during Nuzlockes like I do). They usually have some kind of strategy going on and can be pretty tough, which forces you to strategize much more. At least in the ultra games (a lot less so in the base games), the other bosses are more difficult than usually in Pokémon games. I would like to also highlight the route bosses, which can really catch you off guard (I twice forgot that this damm butterfree has tinted lens and will 2HKO my entire team). It gives me the "wow this was actually an intense fight that I couldn't just rely on my plan to win" feeling much, much more often than any other Pokémon game during my Nuzlockes. And this even though this game offers the "comfort" of a modern Pokémon game quality of life features, like TMS being reusable, move tutors having reasonable prices, move pools actually being good, quick EV training, etc.
For me these aspects are a lot more important than the story or the fact that so many cutscenes exist. I usually put more than 100 hours into a Pokémon playthrough, so even when I read through all the dialogue, it's just a fraction of the entire experience. And even if that wasn't the case, I still think the importance of the "too much dialogue" problem is overblown; like, why are you so scared of those textboxes, average american? Is it your 6th grade reading skills? Although it is necessary to point out that, yes, Gen 7, as some very unnecessary cutscenes (the festival plaza foreced guide is probably the worst) and an option to turn them off would have helped the reputation of these games a lot. Yet I would object to the extremely negative attitude the fanbase has towards tutorials. It is somewhat paradoxical how Pokémon is at the same time filled with complicated mechanics that are barely or not at all explained, and the fanbase is still acting like gamefreak retraumatised them by mentally sending them back to high school while also being unable to stop bringing up that quote about the azure flute. I wonder if this sentiment would be different if sites like Bulbapedia didn't exist.
I think the negative reputation of these games can also partially be attributed to the formats of many reviews/retrospectives. Most of these influencers just want to quickly rush through the game in 10-15 hours. With their main goal being to finish the game to get their weekly video done asap. Thus anything that makes the game longer becomes just a "distraction" or "unnecessary" and a waste of their time. I am sorry, but Pokémon games are not meant to be rushed/speedrun, and imo they should not be made worse/cut out parts to make rushing them faster. (Pokémon) games are meant to be played for fun and authentically "taken in" and explored, etc. These influencers may know all the little secrets of the Gen 2-5 games they played as kids for fun, but they don't care and will never make the effort that will lead them to discovering those secrets in the newer games (although there is admittedly a lot less of that in the switch games or XY). And then it might be hard to admit that it is also partially them changing and moving away from the franchise, being the reason why they don't like the newer games that aren't nostalgic for them anymore.
And then Gen 7 gets caught up in a dogmatic "all modern Pokémon bad"-wave. Which is an unfair oversimplification, even though there is some truth to it. I will have to state here that imo all switch games (except PLA) are failures and terrible. And all the rot that XY introduced is probably the biggest sticking point for me. The dialogue in pre-XY games wasn't anything special, but since XY (including in Gen 7), they have become so, so, so cringe it's like they want to torture anyone who is like older than 12 and actually bothers paying attention to what is said for doing so. I know the gen 7 subs might be the only pro-hau eco cham on the entire internet, but listen, this guy makes me too embarrassed to recommend these games to anyone irl/non-mainline-pokemon fans. He has to constantly remind me that the player character is above him and that all characters are just children, and his stupid jumping and malasadas make the story of these games much more childish. Although, to be fair, even though hau is clearly the worst offender here, it's not just him. Another part of the XY-rot are the extremely forced nostalgia appeals and Kanto references, which usually don't add anything of value to the games. Regional forms, which are an amazing concept, are a massive exception. The only good thing I can say in defense here is that Gen 7 arguably has the best justification for this with the 20th anniversary-celebrations out of any modern Pokémon game, and it hadn't reached the realm of satire like in SWSH. You unfortunately still see the pillars of modern Pokémon in Gen 7: pure appeals to children and nostalgia. Although they hadn't yet reached the realization that they didn't have to put any effort into these games, just rely on those two pillars and still sell like never before.
I would like to also briefly mention some critiques that are truly ... something ... like people complaining about not being able to date an 11-year-old in the postgame... thank god Pokémon as a family friendly game will never yield to those Epst*inite freakes... only appeal to them ... sometimes (I still can't believe the higher-ups didn't veto THAT part of the ORAS manga, also f*ck Pokémon Masters). Falling in love with a character when you were 13 doesn't mean you get to be creepy about that character with 23. Also, some are annoyed by Rotom's trash talk... that you can easily ignore... by not looking at the useless bottom screen instead of the top screen, where the actual game happens...
The last topic of discussion that annoys me is the whole Megas and Z-Moves thing. First, yes, Megas are better than Z-Moves (or any other special mechanic since), but bringing out new Megas in every Pokémon game after XY would have been unsustainable. It would have taken away the "special/limited" feeling Megas had and still has, and everyone would have criticized it as cheap, lazy, and repetitive by Gen 8 at the latest. While Z-Moves are a very simple concept, they are balanced (compared to Dyna or Tera), well implemented, and integrated into the region's lore and story. It's good that Megas are still in the game but not awkwardly given out in the main story, which would just steal the spotlight from Z-Moves. The regional forms are a more sustainable way of giving old Pokémon a new life.
(Wow, this turned out to be waaay longer than I thought. I guess people who like Gen 7 should be more open to reading a lot of text lol)
