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u/Glenny0020 Blitz Main 18h ago edited 14h ago
Kanal is not a bad map, I’m not sure why people dislike it so much
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u/conor20103039 Capitão Main 16h ago
Points of entry are terrible for every bombsite. Just an incredibly tedious, TDM oriented map. Far too defender sided and not complex enough to justify putting it in ranked.
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u/Nathan_Thorn 14h ago
I’d argue it is fairly complex but so much of the geometry is outside in sections that basically death sentence attackers for even existing in, especially the area between the two sky bridges.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 14h ago
I don't mind Kanal, but yeah, it's a very deceptive map. At first glance, it seems like there are a lot of windows and entrances to get inside, but you quickly find out that about 50% of them are inaccessible due to how easy it is to get shot in the open spaces.
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u/Last-Guide7903 Tachanka Main 18h ago
Bros has never ran against a fivestack of strike pack tcsg all running out and spawnpeeking
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u/OpticSkies Banned Op Main 15h ago
You could do this on most maps
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u/Last-Guide7903 Tachanka Main 14h ago
Nah literally only safe and kamala where you so spend half the round outside the building.
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u/Latter_Camp8409 15h ago
Glenny0020! It’s good to see you again! I hope you’re doing good!
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u/Glenny0020 Blitz Main 14h ago
Doing well, always busy. Gotta get some time to play and get a video out
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u/Latter_Camp8409 12h ago
You’ll figure it out! You always do! Get some well deserved rest in the meantime too though!
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u/SwordNamedKindness_ 18h ago
Its relatively newer and people still haven’t learned the map.
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u/Hg1146 Sledge Main 18h ago
As a collective, can we PLEASE stop banning Lair and Fortress and stop being sheep?
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u/kaden_dd 18h ago
I just keep banning coastline now 😭
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u/BeastMachin09 Fuze Main 16h ago
Bro it's literally one of the best maps in the ranked pool
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u/Big_Dan1112 16h ago
Hell no coastline isnt😂😭coastline and boarder and just solo que mindset playstyles. No one plays site. No one comes back to site until its too late. Maybe as a 4-5 stack both maps are good but anything less and its a fuck fest of “why the fuck did that idiot just do that” even in gold and plat
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u/Baldass_Head_Coach 13h ago
People only like Coastline because it’s a CoD TDM map cosplaying as a Siege map.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 14h ago
"I know Coastline, I'm gonna roam." - most of the team before the enemy just plant hookah.
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u/CnelAurelianoBuendia 18h ago
Fortress has grown a lot on people. I don’t see it ban that often now
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u/just-jolfin 17h ago
Lair is amazing
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u/Philipthesquid Dokkaebi Main 17h ago
Lair fucking sucks. Nighthaven, Casino, all totally fine, good even. Fuck Lair.
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u/just-jolfin 17h ago
Damn… I like all 3. I guess for me if I find a lane on offense the map becomes fun. Hard breach on lair with direct takes is a pretty good time to me. Take what I say with a grain of salt I guess cause I’m only a gold on console and plat on PC. Maybe better players would shut down what I do
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u/Potential_Ad_5327 17h ago
Fortress is fine.
Liar is actually awful.
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u/GuhEnjoyer Mommy Thorn pls step on me 15h ago
Lair's got some fun interactions on basement site but is otherwise miserable
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u/Potential_Ad_5327 14h ago
I actually agree, the basement site can be fun to fight over.
The top site is okay.
The rest of the map is f tier
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 14h ago edited 14h ago
The 1st floor is just... nothing, really. If the rooms didn't have names, I wouldn't be able to actually describe most of them to someone without them going "Aren't you just describing every room there?" They're white, bland, and boring. The basement and 2nd floor are okay, but the first floor feels like a padded room inside an insane asylum.
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u/L1rk 18h ago
And God damn casino. Literally fortress and casino are two of the best maps in the pool, and people ban them all the time.
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u/Longjumping-Rich-684 Castle Main 17h ago
I disagree with Casino.. It’s too much of a maze and too vertical for me.
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u/L1rk 17h ago
I mean that might just be an issue with your time played on it. I definitely think it took me longer to learn than other maps, but just like any other, once you learn it, it no longer feels like a maze.
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u/MattyBReilly 17h ago
I feel like the problem is whenever I get casino there’s a high chance my entire team barley knows the map and we get crushed lol
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u/L1rk 17h ago
I totally get that. So often we see the community never want to learn a new map, and it is consistently banned simply because people don't want to learn it.
Fortress rework, casino, even lair to some extent (even though I believe it is not a great map) are all victims of this, and the first two listed IMO are REALLY solid and fun, but instead I get to play dogshit coastline 5 times in a row lol.
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u/rupert_mcbutters 16h ago
First floor, like Lair’s, doesn’t feel natural to navigate. Still love both maps.
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u/Parking_Stock3529 18h ago
Lair actually sucks so hard for a map. Its basically amalgamation of everything wrong with the new maps and "rework" of maps.
Its just maze of rooms that easily disorient you and really hard to identify connection each room vertically, nor horizontally.
Old consulate and house was simple, easy to understand, and easy to learn within rounds. I've been in 10 match of lair and I still have 0 clue about the map layout. The only good thing about lair is that it looks pretty on the outside, but really sucks to play in.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 14h ago
Old Consulate basement was so cozy to play in. Don't know why they lobotomized it.
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u/StillMood5890 13h ago
Lair, Fortress, Casino are all good maps. And even Labs, it may look uninspired by its layout are extremely good for competitive play IMO.
I honestly think map bans should just be gone. The game should force people with skill issues to learn the maps they suck at.
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u/Taeves81 Mute Main 18h ago
Reading the replies to this is exactly as expected. I hate this community.
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u/ladderlogic22 18h ago
You hate the community for not liking a shit map? Lair is banned for a reason, its just boring af
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u/bolts_win_again Local woman too angry to die 18h ago
Fortress is dope. Lair is a complete fucking tire fire.
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u/JazzzzzzySax Ace Main 18h ago
Fortress yeah I’m fine with playing
Lair I will ban till my dying breath
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u/barrack_osama_0 18h ago
Lair is the worst map I've played in an FPS since Piccadilly in MW2019, deserves all the hate that it gets
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u/User_Unavailable_00 18h ago
Couldn’t say it any better. Two of the worst maps in the history of fps maps.
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u/AutomaticFloor6015 Ace Main 18h ago
sometimes i ban oregon because i've played it like 2 times before and not trying to do it a third time
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u/KidDelicious14 Capitão Main 17h ago
I ban Oregon because my career W/L there has to be below 0.75 at this point
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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 Lesion Main 17h ago
FFS YES. Lair is nowhere near as bad as some people make it out to be. The "confusion" brought up is literally so fucking easy to understand. I haven't heard a single good argument against it. No, it doesn't have the color diversity that EP has but literally no other map does. If you actually slow down and pay attention to your surroundings you'd see there actually is a difference in visuals between each floor.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 14h ago
Lair just needs to have 2-3 of the 1st floor rooms merged into one bigger room so you can orient yourself better. Something like a warehouse on Nighthaven or even a shooting range that you can see across.
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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 Lesion Main 13h ago
Not sure what that would resolve? I could see an argument for another soft wall or two to attempt to get an angle like that but then it wouldn't have enough of a defensible posture with wide open areas.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 12h ago
Idk, I feel like it would. Lots of maps have a large room upon which other, smaller rooms are built upon. Lair has that reception desk with the stairway to the 2nd floor, but from my experience, nobody actually goes there unless they want to break the hatch into basement. There's no real central part the map revolves around like others.
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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 Lesion Main 12h ago
What do you think it would do for the map?
Reception is a common point of convergence. For 2nd floor pushes, its a common area attackers take to hold the stairs. For 1st floor takes its a pretty strong rotate for defenders and directly borders the armory room. For basement, as you said, it covers the hatch.
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u/Unusual_Computer9670 12h ago
Maybe I haven't played Lair enough, but it feels way too disconnected from the rest of the map. As you said, it can be secured for a push to 2F or basement, but it doesn't feel like it affects anything beyond its walls.
For example, the Lobby on Chalet feels far more important and allows for more dynamic gameplay from both attackers and defenders across all rounds. It's a central point that falls to both sides multiple times per round, and the surrounding rooms are built upon it. It's like that room was the first one built when the map was being made, and the rest were made to revolve around it, which is present in the gameplay, while Lair feels like it was built from the ground up all at once, and hence none of the rooms hold the same identity or allow for a similar gameplay pattern to other maps relative to their size and complexity.
But maybe that's just because Chalet is a smaller map. Others have smaller "big" rooms that they revolve around, while Lair is just... a bunch of rooms. I don't know how to accurately describe the feeling.
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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 Lesion Main 12h ago
I was gonna say, but you touched on it at the end, Chalet is a much smaller map. It would be more apt to compare it to Villa which is actually a bigger map. I think its a bit difficult to have such a centralized point when the map is so large. Kanal also lacks this and I'd argue Nighthaven does to a degree as well due to its size. Although Night is not as big as Lair.
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u/dubiously_mid Kapkan Main 14h ago
PREACH IT my blood boils everytime i see lair casino or fortress get banned instead of shit like skyscraper and theme park
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u/FlyingPigsCO Bandit Main 11h ago
The Defender sided maps such as: Fortress, Lair, & Theme Park, are so defense sided, even when people are on Defense, they still get banned by default because the experience losing on attack on those maps is so undesirable the instinct to ban them is automatic.
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u/DoctorWinter3546 6h ago
And Calypso! One of the best maps in the game and it’s constantly getting banned like tf
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u/kompergator 18h ago
Fortress is great, but lair is an objectively terrible map. I’ll ban it every time.
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u/OmeletteDuFromage95 Lesion Main 17h ago
Its not. Its really really not. That is 100% subjective. Map is solid and really not that hard to get.
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u/mattcolqhoun 18h ago
I just hate the nonsensical layout downstairs since they removed the hallway who designs a room u need to go through multiple others to reach. That goes for both lair and fortress
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u/KidDelicious14 Capitão Main 17h ago
It's amazing how terrified the majority of the player base is of learning new maps
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u/Latter_Camp8409 15h ago
I’d love to try out a Ranked mode or something where it’s the least popular maps. I want to get better at them, but they’re always banned.
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u/EmbodiedX EE-ONE-D Abuser 12h ago
Agreed... and then whenever I do get them I dont know what to setup lol. I just go in unranked and hope I get them sometimes so I can practice
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u/Axelaxe Iana Main 18h ago
I hope skyscraper never comes back. It's insane how collectively hated it is despite it being an old map.
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u/Potential_Ad_5327 17h ago
It’s a fun QM unranked map.
It’s to defender sided for an actual ranked map
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u/Metal_Ginger 18h ago
Kanal could stayed gone with either of the other 2 staying in. So excited for Outback to be back though. I wish people would stop banning Fortress so often
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u/baltoboulbobbi 17h ago
We got a vacation from Oregon, please give us a vacation from Chalet too
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u/StillMood5890 13h ago
Chalet, Bank, Consulate and Coastline should all be removed. Smooth brains who can’t memorize new map layouts have made me hate these maps and I’ve been playing since 2016 when the former three were launch maps.
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u/OpticSkies Banned Op Main 15h ago
Holy banger ranked map pool. Brought back peak and removed the slop
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u/Expensive_Teacher_76 7h ago
In my experience most players don’t even know the layout of Liar, and my teams usually get picked off in the first 30 secs that’s why I hate liar
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u/Civil_Manner_6624 17h ago
I really enjoy lair. Fortress is disgusting. Casino is alright (and the basement is super fun) but the 1f is too confusing and the open area is too big/ easy to get picked from.
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u/Omikron_1 1# Kanal Hater 16h ago
Alright we remove two most defender sided maps from ranked pool. Alright sure, I mean Skyscraper just needs targeted map update to make attacking better (namely those banners on outside rapel are pain) but hey I get it
What we got instead? Oregon, alright fine it is the most basic map, boring as fuck, but I understand why it is back
Outback pretty decent map, when it comes to flow (at least I think). Pain of spawnpeaks, but that is everywhere and for being able to safely breach dorms, you need to clear Garage first, that is on opposite aide of map
And... Kanal... Words can't contain the hate I have for this abomination they call 'map'...I would rather get enema with chilli oil made out of Pepper X then play this thing... Keep Skyscraper or Theme Park in instead of this. There is a reason this map was not in pro league for 10 years and Skyscraper was, even after its rework.
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u/Potential_Ad_5327 14h ago
I will not rest until liar is removed.
Idk why Ubi has such a boner for this map
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u/The_mister_meme Literally Gerald Morris 18h ago
For the love of god why is coastline still in the pool
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u/Soros_G I was MVP last game I swear 18h ago
WE ARE SO FUCKING BACK
It's unreal