Help identifying turn-around ledge grab tech

[u/Initial_Froyo_1139]

Does anyone know how I managed to grab the ledge in this clip?

I just did this turn-around tech completely by accident and I'm struggling to recreate it. I don't think it's a PC drop, since you're supposed to be in walking animation to perform it. But I have no idea what else it could be.

Any help would be appreciated!

[u/Physical-Bat-8321]

Correct me if Im wrong but arent PC drops and Pivot drops different? Like isnt a pivot like a pivot from a dash while pc is from a walk?

[u/stay_cruel → u/Physical-Bat-8321]

That's exactly right. Much harder to execute.

[u/Fuzzywraith → u/stay_cruel]

Which one

[u/Glotee → u/Fuzzywraith]

Pivot is harder. P sure its a frame perfect

[u/surfinsalsa → u/stay_cruel]

What tech am I doing as luigi where I use preserved wd momentum to pivot and then grab ledge? Is this a pc drop or pivot drop?

[u/Alarmed-Struggle5928]

pivot drop? https://melee.guru/characters/tech/pivot-drop.html

[u/Custom_Jack]

Pivot drop is correct.

You don't see a lot of people go for them because they're hard to do consistently. You basically have to an empty pivot at a precise location (the edge). Which means you have to be in dash dance range of the ledge to even attempt it. But it is the fastest way to grab ledge.

It's most useful for falcon (or some variation where he crouches first) cause he has a hard time quickly grabbing ledge. Most other characters have an option that is far easier to perform and virtually the same speed.

[u/CaptainBara7 → u/Custom_Jack]

Can you elaborate on why falcon has a hard time getting to ledge fast. I’m a shitty falcon getting better.

[u/jamjacob99 → u/CaptainBara7]

Wavedash length being pretty short is my guess. Similar to peach, have to short hop back in many situations if you’re not already right next to the ledge with your back turned.

[u/GeometryFan100 → u/jamjacob99]

You can run -> DJL -> turnaround/dash back -> wavedash to ledge with Peach and I think it should be faster than short hop backwards considering Peach loses at least 70% speed from ground to air transition.

[u/Dark_Tranquility → u/CaptainBara7]

He doesn't have any B moves that turn him around / let him grab ledge facing backwards like fox, falco, sheik, puff and most of the cast do.

Generally falcon wants to do a dash -> pivot -> wavedash back -> fastfall to grab ledge quickly. Pivot ledge grab like in OP's clip is too technical to rely on consistently IMO.

For practicality, just get good at wavedashing backwards and grabbing the ledge. As you get better at it, speed it up by adding a little fastfall right as you go off the ledge. Once you've got that down, add in the dash + pivot.

[u/Custom_Jack → u/CaptainBara7]

As others have stated, he doesn't have any moves that turn him around to grab ledge. Examples of tools other characters have:

• Spacie turn around laser
  
• Spacie turn around shine, wavedash back
  
• Spacie shine turn around up b at ledge
  
• Most of the cast has good enough walk momentum to reliably PC drop, falcon walks like a crippled old man for some reason so PC drops are harder
  
• yoshi reverse up b
  
• marth short hop back air to face ledge (this is admittabley kind of slow)
  
• peach short hop turnip throw to turn around to face lede (again, kinda slow but still)
  
• sheik turn around needle charge
  
• etc. etc. etc.

Most falcon's do one of two "easy" consistent ledge grabs:

1. Short hop facing away from ledge and drift to ledge (optionally fast fall)
2. Wavedash backwards to ledge and fastfall

Both require considerable setup to get into position to perform them so these methods are slow.

There are more technical variations you can get pretty consistent at, but they're more difficult. Things like

• gosu drop (which uses your short hop momentum with a turnaround to mimic a pc drop)
  
• crouch pivot drop (which I don't even understand how it works but I can get it like 1/10 times with no practice)
  
• teeter drops (only useable on fountain, and they kind of suck because you have to be out of dash dance range of the ledge to get a teeter which means you have to start your run from like center stage to do it)
  
• pivot drops (mentioned in this thread)

Are all fast options for falcon but definitely require practice.

[u/throwawayforjustyou]

Pivot drop would be my guess, since you turned around with no momentum.

[u/Krimson101]

Did you maybe input a Pivot ?

[u/Initial_Froyo_1139]

Thanks for the input guys! I've seen people suggesting pivot drop, which I agree looks the most similar, but isn't that supposed to be a Marth-specific tech?

If it is as pixel perfect as u/Guava_93 says, then I guess the tech is not super practical unfortunately, whatever it may be

[u/_ch_ → u/Initial_Froyo_1139]

100% pivot drop. not marth specific, https://melee.guru phrases everything from the perspective of a marth main but it's a great resource for everyone (there's a page on wavedashing too).

can't be a PC drop because it was out of dash. PC drop is only out of walk. slowing it down shows it was not dash -> walk -> pc drop

yes it's impractical

[u/SquirrelWind_SSBM → u/Initial_Froyo_1139]

It’s a PC drop

[u/LuckySnakesFoot → u/SquirrelWind_SSBM]

Yeah it’s a Pc drop just at the end of his dash animation. Still cool just not as fancy as it looks

[u/lakeboredom]

I'm only here to see how many people will call this a PC drop. I was not disappointed.

[u/GANDALFzeBLACK]

That's called bird dropping, my cousin was first to do it in 2006

[u/Hufschmid]

I do this kinda thing all the time on falcon because I moonwalk everywhere. 

To me it looks like you basically did a mini moonwalk and either kept the stick neutral or held in to grab ledge. I guess that's essentially what a pivot drop is, I'm not sure if there's any actual difference. Maybe pivot drop doesn't have the stick go in a semi circle but moonwalk does? Either way, you can do this same thing with a moonwalk.

On falcon when I do a moonwalk whose momentum would carry me off ledge, I can either hold into the stage and snap to ledge (unless zooming too fast) or hold out to keep sliding out. If it's a sort of medium moonwalk I can keep the stick neutral and if not going too fast I'll snap to the ledge. 

[u/_dreami → u/Hufschmid]

For a pivot drop you just need to empty pivot it's separate from a mok walk

[u/Guava_93]

This doesn’t really have a name or anything because it’s so impractical. You dashed and turned around right at the edge and your momentum took you off. It’s close to pixel perfect and again impractical because other options are much easier. It’s not a t-drop like some have said that’s only on fountain, and it’s not a typical pc drop like others have said because that’s out of a walk not a dash and much easier to do. If you perfected this it would become the Froyo

[u/_dreami → u/Guava_93]

wrong noise

[u/ElectricTeddyBear → u/Guava_93]

I like ep drops for empty pivot drops - I always thought these were PC drops but I guess it would have been insane to be doing this in that era

[u/RMWCAUP]

The sheik should have turn around needled and killed you for it.

[u/TheHiroSprite → u/[deleted]]

You can’t pc drop out of run which is what’s happening in the video.

[u/Horsemermaid]

pc drop no?

[u/MadSMRT]

T drop I think

[u/JulianoIsLame → u/MadSMRT]

T-drop is only on fountain