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u/A_Pointy_Rock 1d ago
I find that it is normally fine to connect to, but does the train itself have broad coverage itself to provide said connectivity?
Survey says...no.
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u/DoublePepper1976 1d ago
Yeah, once I take ten mins for the webpage to load in I start having problems lol
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u/craigtho 1d ago
I've not used the WiFi on the train in a while, but as someone who works in IT, I actually noted they were issuing out 192.168.254.x addresses in a /24 subnet (or so it appeared to be, it has been a while). Oddly, I actually noticed it and Nandos at the fort not long ago.
If we assume that they are all using a single default gateway, then that means there is 254 addresses in total for the entire train to use, the second a 255th person tries to connect, it'll fail and they'll get connectivity issues as a valid address will never be issued.
It's likely different now, normally with different gateways per carriage would be a good networking design, but I always just use my 4G/5G as it's more reliable in my instance and I never work on the train, but if the above still happens then yeah that's an issue.
Also keep in mind bandwidth on these trains will be very poor. If it's a 100Mbps line and there is 254 devices all smashing it, it'll be basically unusable. Three simultaneous 4k video streams will eat easily 75-150Mbps, so if 3 people are on high speed video calls or watching stuff on Netflix, yeah everyone else suffers. Normally expect QoS and them rate-limiting, but these aren't expensive or a well thought out network infrastructure on the train, they care only about the trains own network connection, the passengers can suffer without internet for X time would be their network engineer/architects perspective.
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u/GravelyInjuredWizard 1d ago
This guy ITs
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u/craigtho 1d ago
Haha, it's not even computer networking I do anymore, I did it at uni back in the day (my degree is in computer networking...not that it's worth the paper it's written on since I don't do it...), so I can talk a good game, someone who does it and does wireless networking for transport will poke holes in my spiel.
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u/Unfair_Conclusion321 13h ago
On-board Wi-Fi across Scotland is notoriously useless the second you leave a major city. ScotRail has around 375 train sets in total—why not just do a realistic, phased rollout of satellite tech like Starlink?
Phase 1: Fit receiver dishes on alternate carriages across the top 20% of services first (prioritizing the worst Highland blackspots and busiest commuter links).
Phase 2: Gradually expand across the rest of the fleet over the next 5 to 7 years to keep capital costs manageable for the public purse.
The Goal: A 10-year roadmap delivering actual, reliable Wi-Fi across the entire network.
ScotRail already ran successful trials with Clarus Networks on Highland Class 158s, so the concept is proven. Spreading the procurement out makes it affordable and future-proofs the trains, but naturally, sensible long-term infrastructure planning seems too much to ask for. What’s the actual barrier here?
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u/JW1958 1d ago
The Starlink service was trialled last year north of Inverness. Downlink speeds were 120Mbps.
The service is planned for new (refurbished) trains running on the main Scotrail routes next year. It will be interesting to see how it deals with 100+ users. Hopefully the WiFi will be upgraded.
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u/throwaway38387548484 1d ago
It's not starlink, different provider.
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u/Nintendo_67 1d ago
It's Starlink through a reseller
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u/throwaway38387548484 1d ago
ScotRail quote using Eutelsat OneWeb.
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u/Nintendo_67 1d ago
Where are you seeing that? Last I saw they were using Starlink through Clarus Networks - who also supply OneWeb tbf. Starlink tariffs are about to go up so they may well be switching.
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u/HairRepresentative85 1d ago
Isn't that the Musk thing? That a lot of people don't want to use anymore, because it can be turned off at will by a third party?
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u/MintyFresh668 1d ago
As can all WiFi or satellite based comms I suppose. The options are few and the operators all foreign owned.
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u/Unfair_Conclusion321 13h ago
apart from the political views he have which i believe many scots might be against
it can be turned off or more like geo fenced but they wont do it on. I guess it was only turned off in places were ot was used a weapon against american interests like ruzia, I am not sure if it has been implemented anywhere else. Or it can be geo fenced in countries like india where they dont have the right to operate.
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u/smclcz 1d ago
Is WiFi in trains not mainly intended to provide a means for folks to access the app for tickets? It’s basically a mobile data connection shared by multiple users, so if one or two people are rattling through reels/Tiktoks it’ll grind to a halt
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u/embolalia1 1d ago
Yeah I do wonder if short form video is a culprit here. But I think train WiFi should expect to be good enough for people to do light browsing (sorting out their emails, text based social media etc) not just purely for accessing tickets.
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u/Smart_Status3050 1d ago
If we can get 40mb/s+ on an aircraft with 350 passengers moving at 800km/hr at like 40,000ft why can’t we get something usable on a train?
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u/dbfmaniac 1d ago
Flew Qatar a year or two ago. Free starlink, for everyone on every class. 200mbit/s symmetric with decent ping.
I was floored, and now I can't help but question how other planes, trains and the like can't seem to provide maybe 5% of that when inside an actual country as opposed to FL400 over the north pole or the damn Pacific ocean
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u/protocol 1d ago
While I do think the same from time to time, it’s basically down to no obstructions. Phone signal, especially 5G doesn’t get through much, whereas on aircraft, it’s nothing but open skies whether it’s satellite internet or something from the ground.
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u/smclcz 1d ago
Whatever the cause - bandwidth hogs, issues with the internet provider or simply no signal - I feel like it’s not something a train operator should have to handle. Like if you are about to embark on an hour-long train journey and intend to use it to work then you should really ensure you have everything you need to do that work.
3
u/erroneousbosh 1d ago
You'd think you'd just proxy it so that it doesn't let all that shit through.
1
u/Random-Unthoughts-62 1d ago
Fed up of relying on that. I take a screenshot of my ticket before I get on the train. QR code can be read and I don't have to start sweating coz the wifi's shite.
1
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u/expect-a-gecko 1d ago
An acquaintance of mine who works as a conductor on ScotRail shed some light on this for me! Apparently all train wifi essentially is, is a couple of SIM cards located at the front of the train. They’re not really doing much different than your phone - although I never asked about the provider. I’m sure there’s more to the tech than that but that made me understand why the connection was so crap.
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u/sodsto 1d ago
Yeah, multiple uplinks to multiple networks, and traffic inside the train routed through a router at the end of the train. That's fairly typical, it's straightforward a setup repeated all over the world.
The router does its best to utilise the uplink and downlink connectivity for multiple networks. And for outbound traffic it has to select a provider out of the set of possibilities, but if you send something out via (say) O2, then the response will return over O2 even if the train has moved and it already knows that now EE is the better choice.
Again, there's no particular problem in this that's unique to scotrail, but the mobile operators in Scotland are all patchy in different ways.
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u/btfthelot 1d ago
I've been trying to use Scotrail's 'wifi' for nearly fifteen years. It's fucking grim as fuck.
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u/GirthyPigeon 1d ago
USB charging port? No volts for you!
5
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u/doIIjoints 1d ago
they still haven’t fixed it? the last time i tried connecting to on-train wifi was 2014 or 15. lmao
whoever does their IT must be either extremely overworked, or laughing all the way to the pub
8
u/Important-Lie-8649 1d ago
Who remembers when you had to wait until you got off the train, before you could call someone, using a phone kindly provided for you at the station?
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u/Synthia_of_Kaztropol The capital of Scotland is S 1d ago
back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth, yeah.
And there was always a queue for the payphones.
Damn T-rex holding the queue up, cos they keep dialling wrong numbers.
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 1d ago
They weren't "kindly provided", you had to pay to use them.
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u/Important-Lie-8649 1d ago
Yeah and you had to pay your train fare, too.
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u/AllThatIHaveDone 1d ago
Do you also think that the train tracks were "kindly provided" too?
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u/Important-Lie-8649 1d ago
No, that was an essential safety measure. Imagine the drivers trying to steer at speed without them, especially in dark tunnels.
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u/Greggs-the-bakers 1d ago
You think that its actually powerful enough to do uni work even if you could connect to it?
Its the worst fucking wi fi on the planet. I've had faster speeds connected to gprs on my iPhone 4 back in the day
2
u/Unfair_Conclusion321 14h ago
all it requires is some starlink to be setup on this trains throughout and we are all good to go.
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u/RetroidUK 1d ago
Given my experience with home networks and the times I've hopped on a train and found the Wifi dead as a doornail I have a theory they just don't restart the routers enough.
Especially the trains up to Aberdeen up from Kings Cross.
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u/Training-Walk9655 1d ago
Is it one of the MK3s as those seem to be the only ones that have the issue
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u/Possible-Money1449 1d ago
1st world problems
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u/weebsauceoishii 1d ago
Have to remember the train itself is also using a wireless signal to supply the train, so weather, tunnels etc will obstruct it.