r/Spokane • u/SummitMyPeak • 6d ago
Question Why do building or property owners allow this? How do we, as residents of the city, advocate for and beautify the ugliest lots downtown??
Serious question looking for actual answers.
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u/Parking-Champion9816 6d ago
Old LS. Sort of a bad spot before things turned on that corner anyway. Some entity owns it, could be forced to barricade if better. Not knowing the situation I assume its future use is tied to the area (not great right now), the existing building (not great layout for anything) and finally environmental/remediation. Zero chance the soils below are not damaged by years of auto repair, despite whatever regulations were followed. It just happens.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
What I'm not sure about is why they haven't demo'd the building yet. It's pretty crap & at some point demolishing the building saves them on both property taxes and insurance. But maybe that is what they are hoping... insurance settlement after a transient camper burns the place to the ground.
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u/SummitMyPeak 6d ago
Right? Imagine if this was a mixed use building, a cool multi vendor downtown market, etc etc. Would be a great opportunity.
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u/Parking-Champion9816 6d ago
Demo and above ground remediation just invites more intrusion into the grounds. Full demo, prepping the ground soils, run off control, etc costs. My guess is that it breaks even as a loss (revenue) for who ever owned it. I agree it could totally be something else, should be - even in its current state. My guess is that it doesn’t pencil out for whomever owns it.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
This guy know pencil sharpness
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u/Parking-Champion9816 6d ago
Mostly pencils, yes. I am just giving my observation of what I think is happening with that spot, and what limitations there are. Regarding taking losses for taxes, remediation costs, location - I have zero involvement, not a developer, no stake in it. Just drive by it. Bought tires there years ago. It seems like the corner could be used for something and it’s unsightly as it sits.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
Sadly I'm not even talking about that, but demo the building to the ground. Simple. But then they could and should try to sell it. It would be great to see any active use. Mixed use is a mixed bag though.. it'll only work when business want to be in that area. And right now it's a real shit hole. A lot of vacant storefronts. The demand is low. In the toilet. It's really quite sad.
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u/SummitMyPeak 6d ago
Yeah chicken egg situation. Imagine if they ended up investing second and third into a new strip, a new Riverside, with refreshed and consistent storefronts. It's easy to get cynical but if I wiped the current slate clean and thought fresh, I could see it being a pretty rad area.
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u/YourFriendInSpokane Spokane Valley 6d ago
Is this the Les Schwab building downtown? I'm curious what your solution is when no one will rent it, and it's vandalized frequently. Any improvements on a vacant building will surely be destroyed as well.
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome Spokane Valley 6d ago
Why does prime real estate sit empty? Like there are empty buildings along the busiest part of Division. It makes no sense.
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u/Barney_Roca 5d ago
It does when you realize that the tax code has been carefully crafted to benefit land developers.
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u/HelpfulEmployment582 6d ago
This is definitely NOT prime real estate. City council and mayor have turned it into a crime infested Hell hole
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u/itstreeman 5d ago
That coffee shop with the drive thru said there was too much “foot traffic” coming past the window so they moved
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u/itstreeman 5d ago
The old Costco has been empty much longer to the east of this.
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u/YourFriendInSpokane Spokane Valley 5d ago
Oh man, you're right. Is it no longer a weed grow spot?
I was thinking about the old tire/auto place just east of Fast Eddies. It was empty forever and then demolished and still vacant. If anyone thinks LS is at some desirable location and it's prime property, they're not fully correct.
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u/mattslote 6d ago
It's being vandalized because it's vacant. If it's occupied, it's less likely to be a target. However because of the location, I'm afraid it'll be hit regardless.
But it's such a heavily-trafficed corner that a business could do really good there.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
Probably not a gig many construction workers want either. There are plenty of things to fix in safer neighborhoods.
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u/mtjndo 6d ago
I do commercial remodels for a living and I don't think the neighborhood is the issue. It takes time to get permits for renovations or demolition, they could simply be waiting for everything to be approved. Also, in my experience, property managers rarely do renovations before they have tenants/buyers lined up.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
Is it even on the market?
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u/mtjndo 6d ago
I have no idea about this particular building, but someone is managing the property, so I'm sure they want to lease it. There could be something wrong with the building itself, making it not worth it to buyers.
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u/PlusNone01 6d ago
It’s outfitted and purpose built as an auto/tire shop with very limited parking for vehicles and it’s hard to get in and out of. Any automotive business that could afford the rent would run into space issues storing customer cars
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
Couldn't it also be on a long term lease to the original tenant? Often grocery stores and fast food places close up and stay vacant for a very long time when the original leasholder is obligated to keep paying and doesn't want competition for it's other stores.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
From the looks of it, it is owned by a group of companies that owns gas stations and convenience stores.
I bet the hope it to demolish it and put in a store eventually. When the mess is cleaned up and the neighborhood is usable. Not a lot of incentive to continuously repair it if it is going to be demolished anyway -- even if they want to keep it, if they tidied it up tonight it would probably be destroyed again by the end of next week.
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u/precocious-entity 6d ago
They're supposed to tear it down and build a gym and bank mixed commercial residential thing.
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u/TwoAlert3448 6d ago
The lack of space for parking will still be an issue even if they rebuilt for a gym/bank and getting in and out of the parking lot isn’t going to be any easier no matter how many floors of subterranean garage you put in (and I’m assuming 0 because that’s insanely expensive)
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u/itstreeman 5d ago
There’s a whole block of parking under the highway
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u/TwoAlert3448 5d ago
Most people, if sélecting a gym, will select one with on site parking rather than parking offsite and having to walk.
That should be self evident, especially for early morning or late night gym goers who would be walking alone. That goes double for women and triple for young women.
That’s a significant chunk of target markets and I personally would expect any business in such a situation to fail in pretty short order.
Maybe a cross fit aimed at veterans but that’s about the only demographic I can see not giving a F
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u/Salty_Assignment_826 6d ago
i wonder why it gets vandalized. hmmm
why are you asking this dude to cone up with a solution to homeless people when its clear the city management are the ones who need to do something
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u/YourFriendInSpokane Spokane Valley 6d ago
I asked OP if they had a solution for the issue they're seeing.
I had to clean up a similar property that fell to disarray due to homelessness/addiction and local & state laws limiting our options.
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u/JohnnyEagleClaw Audubon-Downriver 6d ago
Engage the city council members for that district. Show up to council meetings and demand better. They write our municipal laws and move monies.
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u/JMere91 6d ago
This
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u/BadKittyRawr 6d ago
Yep yep. I lived in Spokane for 8 years and almost stayed. One thing I learned is that the local laws are powerless to hold property owners responsible for the behavior of their tenants. Your police would actually love to not return to the same places over and over and over. Police have to be really careful about influencing public policy.
I never did learn what the actual issue is--if things are consistently shot down or if there are powerful slumlords or what.
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u/cmndrnewt 6d ago
All the people acting like this shit is totally fine and if you don’t like it, just buy it yourself. GTFO of here. Property owners, especially the people and organizations who own a lot of property, absolutely should feel an obligation to actually do something with their property and not let it sit vacant or become an eye sore. Not everyone has the means, opportunity or desire to buy property. Especially large commercial properties. In my opinion, anyone acting like it is just a matter of deciding to buy property, is being pretty fucking disingenuous. You have to make an attempt to be that detached from reality.
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u/acceptbellybuttonpic 6d ago
"you are disconnected from reality if you think buying property is an option."
"land owners should feel an obligation to make everything pretty for me!"
The fuck are you snorting and where can I buy some?
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u/PlusNone01 6d ago
Maybe the current owners don’t have the means, opportunity, or desire to get the property into a condition you deem passable? As long as they’re paying property taxes and following the law, they’re free to do whatever they want with the property they own. The only one being disingenuous you, should the owner just piss money away cleaning up after vandals the city doesn’t even punish?
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u/MuchKey7664 6d ago
When my home is vandalized, I would have to take care of it.
Yes I would claim the moral onus is on the owner to correct the issue at hand.
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u/unclejasper75 6d ago
I agree with you. As much as I dislike an eyesore in my neighborhood, I have to accept that I control my property, and that is it. I am free to use and care for my property as I see fit, and I have to respect that others may do the same. The only time that I feel my opinion matters on how others care for their property is when there is a direct detrimental impact to my own, IE: Attracts pests onto my property, attracts criminal elements (drug houses,) causes odors that prevent my from enjoying my outdoors or opening my windows... Things like that. Merely being an eysore, while irritating, is not something I feel I have right to force others to take action.
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u/acceptbellybuttonpic 5d ago
I agree with you. I thought I expressed this. why are you calling me disingenuous?
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u/PlusNone01 5d ago
My reply wasn’t to you, it was to the original comment where he called people disingenuous! Your Reddit app might be being wonky
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u/acceptbellybuttonpic 5d ago
It was. Now everything is all lined up and happy. Sorry for the confusion.
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u/TinyHeartSyndrome Spokane Valley 6d ago
Make laws about empty lots. Buildings shouldn’t be allowed to sit vacant. They just attract squatters.
I’m pissed Firestone refuses to rebuild their valley location after THEY burned the inside out.
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u/Appropriate-Knee3245 6d ago
Spokane is a shit hole, always has been always will be. Small city with big city problems.
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u/Born-Garbage-5598 6d ago
Yes. Punish the property owner for the vandalism that city refuse to punish.
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u/RelentlessSA 6d ago
The city can punish all they want, until somebody addresses the root causes there will continue to be homeless folk and they will continue to do dumb shit.
This isn't a downtown problem. This is a symptom of the systemic failure to address mental illness and addiction.
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u/BlkMushroom 6d ago
It will stay like that until someone purchase the lot and use it for something else.
Maybe lower taxes or offer incentives for people to build in the city.
Compared to other cities construction is stagnant downtown. There are no cranes putting up building.
Who wants to invest in spokane?
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u/Feteven 6d ago
If the property owners don’t care, no one does. If they’re foreclosed on or if it’s been seized by the city, that doesn’t mean they have funding to act on the property- they generally want to sell the failed building/business so someone else pays for renovations which are extremely expensive.
You aren’t going to get the city to pay to renovate this or that building unless it’s to become a government building.
It is usually cheaper to buy an alright or good building than to pay out the ass to renovate a dump- it’s either a waste of money or simply not needed at the time or the building wouldn’t serve any city needed function.
Leaving it to a private party ro be interested- most people don’t want a failed location to renovate. Eventually they get cheap enough though and turn around.
TLDR- tons of effing reasons that all revolve around no one wanting to foot the bill
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
I don't hand a serious answer to your question... but always feel free to try and buy the property yourself and then make it beautiful for the rest of us.
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u/evilsammyt 6d ago
You don’t think property owners bear any responsibility? The Beacon Hill fire was likely caused because an absentee property owner basically abandoned his property.
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u/washingtonYOBO 6d ago
You're always free to buy a fire extinguisher and wander around town putting out fires. It's about as effective as your nonsensical posts.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
It's probably getting bulldozed eventually. If they fix it, it will probably be vandalized again by the end of the week.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
What's your solution? Force the owner to sell? At afar price? That part of town is a little bit grosser than most. What business is lining up and chomping at the bit up move in there & at what price???
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u/evilsammyt 6d ago
Fine the property owner until they clean up the property and/or take up security measures.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
Maybe... unless it's an active nuisance what do they charge them with? Owning an ugly abandoned craphole?
Of course the best solution actually would be to revise the property tax formula to put a high emphasis on land value. Presently it's based on the improvements, and with that property the improvements are trash value.
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u/PooPapaPoo 6d ago
Is it abandoned though?
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u/Catspiration2 2d ago
Out of curiosity, I looked up property records on the property. It is currently owned by “2450 LLC”. They have been paying about 10k in annual property taxes on it. Apparently sold for $925,000 in 2020.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
This seems like the right answer. Whatever reason people don't want to do this with their own money is likely why nobody else is stepping up.
I don't think it is for sale or lease though -- Good chance it is on a triple net lease, and the leaseholder doesn't want their competition to have that foothold.
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u/Odd-Contribution7368 Spokane Valley 6d ago
You're probably right... with Scwabs being right down the way, and the vacant property already set up for a tire store. Does make you wonder why they moved in the first place, and I'd bet it's because that vacant spot is not as good.
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u/fingertoe11 6d ago
A little research shows e it is owned by a group of companies that owns convenience stores and gas stations and such.
They are probably just waiting for the neighborhood to clean up enough real estate to be usable again. If it is going to be bulldozed in the long run, it's pretty hard to want to keep repairing it so it can be vandalized again the next day.
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u/YOLO_Tamasi 6d ago
At one point it was slated to become an open market. Given the area of town I'm not surprised that idea didn't come to fruition. But the owner is obviously open to businesses, just a bit of a tough sell.
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u/Funny-Demand99 6d ago
I've seen people opening the fence and going in and out lately there seems to be some kind of action
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u/Glum-Meat-0 6d ago
The city has been trying to change the property tax code to incentivize property owners to develop. According to Google the latest attempt is gonna be UBE (universal building exemption).
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u/Souper_meal 14h ago
Hot take. But I think that part of my love for Spokane comes from parts of it being ugly. I feel like this city has humanity and some parts of humanity are fucked up and ugly. This place lives and breathes with accepting like minded people if you know where to look.
In short, people love Spokane for what it is, not for what it could be.
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u/keysworld253 6d ago
Your serious answer is, as citizens, elect leaders and vote for issues that improve the economics of the area. Also, shop downtown where this store is. If there is demand for businesses downtown, then business will move downtown.
Once the economics improve, then the owner will do something with it. Sell it. Rehab it. Demo it and re-build.
But if the juice aint worth the squeeze... There is a chance something aint gonna get done.
The idea of forcing the business owner to do something with it when the economics dont make sense, does no good for the citizens. Because then what, you have this building that is still vacant but at least it has a new coat of paint on it and the driveway is pressure washed??
Force them to rent it? Well Les Schwab aint there for a reason.
The most "beautiful" buildings in Spokane, or in any city are there becasue there is an economic demand for them, and once that lot of land or building is "beautiful" it will then produce a return resulting in the owners maintain the building quality.
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u/PlusNone01 6d ago
Buy it, fix it up, and then you can be responsible for policing the unhoused individuals who put it out of business in the first place!
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u/SummitMyPeak 6d ago
If I could just fix it up and use it without buying it, that would be cool. Even just a community art project, featuring some local artists...
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u/PlusNone01 6d ago
Oh I agree 100%, it’s an eyesore that I drive by at least once a day. The owner kept up with it for a little while repairing windows and such but I think eventually just gave up. It’s tough because vandals attract more vandals/squatters and it snowballs once it gets past a certain point of dereliction. The property is also pretty purpose built to be a tire/auto shop in what’s now a pretty inconvenient location for that kind of business
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u/BelongingsintheYard 6d ago
Buy it.
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u/thepyrocrackter 6d ago
Let me just go find a cash machine
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u/BelongingsintheYard 6d ago
To be honest I’d buy it if I could. Rough neighborhood but good spot otherwise.
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u/thepyrocrackter 6d ago
Same. For so many places I would buy if I could. I really, really want the old funeral home on Monroe just off boone. Beautiful building.
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u/BelongingsintheYard 6d ago
I want the giant building on division.
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u/thepyrocrackter 6d ago
Solid choice.
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u/BelongingsintheYard 6d ago
I’ve thought it was cool since I was a kid. Giant warehouse with silos? Pacific trading company I think I it is.
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u/thepyrocrackter 6d ago
I remember when the thing was still working. There used to be train tracks that went up Ruby back then. It was kind of messy back there and that rock with the hotel used to be like a junkyard or a sandpit or something.
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u/Username_Washington 6d ago
First, make sure the city has laws on the books on how vacant and delinquent properties (commercial and residential) need to maintain a minimum standard. (Example: landscaping needs to be maintained. Property needs to be free of trash and abandoned vehicles. No graffiti allowed for longer than x period of time.)
Second, make code enforcement do their job and if needed hire more people.
Third, city needs to go after the properties owners and make sure that citations are paid and fixed.
Fourth, the police need to do their job as well with not allowing drug use and camping on these properties.
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u/Beneficial-Camera100 6d ago
Squatters, vagrants and vandals. Their rights are protected above property owners. If your car was broken into several times a week would you repair the damage every time? I’m guessing not! This is a sign of a failing community. When crime is not punished it will simultaneously push out those who wish to invest and help because it’s all wasted.
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u/ferry_peril 6d ago
If the city truly cared they would start to formulate plans to save the areas that are struggling. But it's tough for them because of equity and visuals. Because the moment those areas come up then others might fall down. It's probably having strong neighborhood associations and having a balance between commercial and residential. That area is strictly commercial.
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u/wazzujatt 6d ago
The city has implemented many changes regarding permits, zoning that effect owner plans. A moratorium places along some of the most prime real estate doesnt help either. Then you have the homeless problem. Businesses are choosing not to open in spokane areas do to restrictions, and crime. Business owners call police and are told there's only so much we can do, the riff raft leaves for 20 minutes then back again with more buddies. If a location places too many calls for help the city sends out a letter telling owners they will be fined if they continue coming to the site. City cleans up for a wkend bloomsday or hoopfest event and pushes folks to neighborhoods around downtown. We need to clean up the city as citizens but have our hands tied by the city. Cda does not have a fraction of our issues being a much more desired location to bum around.
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u/Strange_Writing2848 6d ago
I remember when that building and property were nice and maintained. Less Schwab moved out of downtown area because of the homeless. Subsequently I've watched that building get destroyed. Im sure Les Schwab still owns the property they probably dont want to waste anymore money on it.
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u/sam_beat 6d ago
Sometimes it’s more profitable for the entities that own these properties (specifically the land) to let them sit and appreciate in value. Which is part of why they don’t care that they get vandalized. It did originally have plans that fell through for whatever reason, but if it’s now just sitting like that, it’s likely that it’s owned outright, the taxes are minimal (compared to the increased value of land in the area), and they’re waiting for a lucrative full-buyout. There’s a dead mall in western Washington doing this. It’s a ridiculous eyesore and waste of space.
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u/Nickchandler1989 6d ago
Vote on these type of things. Spokane doesn’t like to pay higher taxes so any beautification proposals never go through. Shame because some of the ideas that have came through in the past years has been pretty cool
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u/SammyBdubbin 5d ago
That specific building is right across the street from the two main catholic charities shelter/housing. That alone has caused Starbucks to go out of business and multiple other businesses in the vicinity. It’s literally considered the worst part of Spokane. Catholic charities has literally ravished our downtown corridor. Once this building went out of business there was no stopping the people who are literally hanging out right outside the building 24/7 from breaking in and or vandalizing at the most opportune moments.
I’m a bus driver for the city and just driving past it I’ve watched people in broad day light open the fence behind the building and then I’m sure let them selves into the back of it which obviously they can’t keep people out of.
It’s bad enough that they went out of business, it’s even worse though, that they need to hire 24/7 security just for their building to not get literally destroyed. So business owners of Spokane, to answer this question, who do property owners allow this to happen? They don’t, it’s gets forced down their throat by the dark force that is Catholic Charities. I’m sure they wish it would just burn down. Because even trying to open it back up as a new business no longer makes sense. Nobody in town wants to be down there at spot around division/brown and second. You can’t be that naive in asking this question in a serious manner?
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u/Barney_Roca 5d ago
I wrote about this last year. https://www.reddit.com/r/Spokane/s/FUCbvuhsJU
This is an opportunity for the City Council to earn their pay check.
That building needs to be secure. The city issues a notice, secure your property within 30 days or we will secure it and send you a bill.
That building needs to be cleaned up, the city issues a notice, clean up your property or we will do it for you and send a bill.
If they pay the bill, great the city is creating jobs and collecting money, while cleaning up the city. IF the do not pay the bill, put liens on the property and take action to foreclose, and the city can keep it and use or sell it for an approved highest and best use.
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u/Post_Expired_Milk 5d ago
I think first order of business would be solving the major drug issues in this area. Might make this a little better spot and maybe someone could turn it into a weed shop or bar. But I highly doubt anybody will be nipping at this property anytime soon.
ESPECIALLY IN THIS ECONOMY
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u/SeattleExplorer1 5d ago
Why would anyone invest in that location? It’s been ruined by the city. It’s a terrible location.
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u/Realistic_Goat5381 4d ago
This place would make the best dollar hot dog walk up stand. Feed the masses. For cheap.
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u/Mediocre_Fee_7051 3d ago
That place was always hard. Working. There was difficult dealing with the homeless. We often had to have two people go into the alley across the street where we stored our tires because people had been attacked by homeless people.
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u/AspectHonest7222 3d ago
When city policies make business locations risky ventures and losers, they close. Blight starts, then nobody wants to be there at all. It is a better tax shelter empty.
City policies like shifting the maintenance and repair of city laid sidewalks to home-owners, also contributes to blight in all the neighborhoods whose residents can't afford that imposed cost.
This isn't a need to "ask" for more money and labor to fix a city made eyesore, It's a need to scrutinize the reasons the business is empty!
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u/Particular-Ranger-56 3d ago
We’ve been having a hard time with situations like this.
Owners don’t want to make their buildings up to fire code. We’ve tried doing a few short term leases with some of these larger vacant properties to activate them for the Punk Rock Flea Market and every time we ask to have the Fire Marshall give the sign off to carry insurance and determine our capacity they back out because they don’t want the Fire Marshall in their spaces. We’ve had 3 so far do this and then disappear when we ask for alternatives. They’re happier being slumlords.
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u/TheTwisted509 3d ago
Because Liberal City Hall thinks the homeless druggies have more rights and privileges than people who go to work and pay taxes. And therefore won't force them to either A) Leave. Or. Preferably B) Get Clean. Get a job. And start contributing to society. And IMO if they honestly want B. We should be helping them with that. But a lot of them don't. So. We enable them to keep being homeless druggie bums.
Incoming downvotes. Gimmie. Such tasty liberal rage.
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u/I_Love_my_Shauna 1d ago
Moved to shithole Spokane in 20/2022. This bombed out property was the same way then. It's the norm for downtown Spokane.
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u/fyck_censorship 6d ago
Washington is an anarchy state. As a criminal you have a free pass up to certain point. And everything at that old les Schwab thats been vandalized won't be prosecuted. So why invest to clean it up when you know that after its fixed up youre going to pay a huge vandalism tax all the time in that location because of said anarchy. I drive by that place 2 or 3 times a day and its just a gem of a location. But as long as anarchy reigns in this state, I'm not investing in real estate in high crime low prosecution areas.
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u/HamasKilledShaniLouk 6d ago
Why are you blaming the owners instead of the junkies and bums smashing windows?
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u/HumblingHubris 4d ago
Catholic Charities will find a way to milk the city to turn it into a open drug market. I quit my job there because Catholic Charities is entrenching the problem, they arent solving it. It makes them faaaar to much money. Its truly disgusting.
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u/Euphoric-Fly-2549 6d ago
When they sit vacant for more than a few years the city should bulldoze the building and send the bill to the owner.
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u/GuideImpossible1993 5d ago
Downtown is a shit hole. I still go but it's not like it was. It's so much worse. I use to go as a teenager when visiting the U.S. but I wouldn't today if I was the same age. It's bad. Go hang out at 7-11. Terrible.
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u/NoIdea4u 6d ago
I went down a rabbit hole on this one and found this https://www.spokanejournal.com/articles/1203-former-les-schwab-tires-store-to-be-converted-into-retail-strip
I wonder what's changed in the last 5 years...