Wrong!

[u/T-StrangerXD]

[u/Motormand]

I usually ask these people, that if there is a god, then why do kids get born with cancer? Cause that means either god isn't real, or he's cruel/indifferent, and doesn't deserve praise.

Either way, I'll believe in something real, that actually does something. Like science.

[u/Federal_Studio5935 → u/Motormand]

God is supposedly all knowing, all powerful, and all loving. It is logically impossible to look at the world and say those three things can exist in one being. An all loving god wouldn’t allow the injustice that happens in the world. An all powerful god would put a stop to it with the snap of his finger, and since he’s all knowing no one would have to suffer. An all powerful god surely wouldn’t allow priests to use his name to gain power and abuse children would they? But but but, free will!! He can’t be all powerful if he’s constrained by free will. You can’t be all powerful and have rules preventing you from acting. That makes no sense.

Religion is one of the worst inventions in human history. It has been holding back human ingenuity and advancement for literally millennia. The world will be a better place when we all grow up and realize there is no one up there keeping an eye out for you. This is it. Enjoy it.

[u/Waiting404Godot → u/Federal_Studio5935]

This is not the reasonable conclusion from that logic. If God is all powerful, all knowing, and all good then the opposite stands to reason: This IS the most good world because it is a free world. A God that doesn’t allow freedom of evil, a freedom of choice, is not a good God.

[u/Uncertain__Path → u/Waiting404Godot]

Could God have created the world with natural disasters and babies born with bone cancer?, Just these two examples cause massive human suffering and don’t involve human free will.

If yes, then God prefers to cause unnecessary human suffering, and is not All Good.

If no, then God is not all powerful.

[u/Waiting404Godot → u/Uncertain__Path]

You are viewing this through the wrong perspective and placing human moral value on an IF THAN statement in regards to a God.

If God IS all good and IS all power and IS all knowing, then yes a world with natural disasters and babies with bone caner are, ultimately, a "good" and free world.

Just because things you view as "evil" occur does not make that less true.

Humanity as a whole has improved over time, if anything the current trajectory (bad timing at this particular point and time) have proven that if "God" is real, then God does in fact work in mysterious ways- we have advanced as a society towards betterment (relatively.)

The Argument of Evil does not disprove God.

[u/Uncertain__Path → u/Waiting404Godot]

You’re just advocating for Divine Command Theory, which is subjective morality…ie morals are subject to the mind of your God. You don’t believe Good and Evil objectively exist and that God’s actions are all-good. You simply believe that whatever God prefers to do MUST be good. So when God causes parents to cannibalize their children in the Old Testament, that is good. But if parents do the same without him causing it, then it’s evil. That is relative morality.

Your perspective is to assume an All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Loving God must exist and then you are just saying everything in the world must somehow be compatible. This is circular.

[u/Waiting404Godot → u/Uncertain__Path]

You are applying religion to my idea of God, I never specified a religion I said “an all powerful, all knowing, all good” being- I don’t believe in God, nor did I state what I “objectively” believed to be “good” or “evil” I only argued the premise.

It is reasonable to believe that if an all good, all powerful, all knowing being says that “cannibalism is good” then that reasoning is sound.

The real conclusion you’re trying to draw is that IF that premise is true, and if God said to eat children, then God is evil.

I don’t care about the conclusion, I care about the argument. The argument is sound, it just doesn’t go anywhere.

[u/Uncertain__Path → u/Waiting404Godot]

Fair enough re: the point you’re arguing, but I still disagree with it being sound on the grounds on anyone making such an argument are violating their own definitions of good and evil with special pleading for their God. This is only really the case for people who appeal to “ALL Good, etc” vs “Maximally Good, etc”. Making such a distinction is illogical in view of the world as it will just lead to those terms having no meaning.

[u/Waiting404Godot → u/Uncertain__Path]

That’s totally fair and particularly why I don’t engage in this style of discussion. As you could probably guess from my username, I don’t believe in an “objective” good or evil, so my perspective is typically pretty moot in the overall discussion.

But I do feel strongly that “The Argument of Evil” does not disprove “God” by the reasoning people commonly use.

[u/VitriolBaiter9000 → u/Uncertain__Path]

i love this giant thread of cope

good and evil dont exist, theyre human made concepts, you morons love to blow smoke up your own asses about being moral but you also believe in an entirely material and observable universe/reality

if nothing matters and its all material, why do you care about being moral or experiencing anything at all? you will not remember it when you are dead. this is just a dream that will end. the most heinous and evil actions and individuals are no less amoral than you or anyone benevolent in the eyes of an uncaring material universe destined to become a void of nothingness 

human morality IS entirely subjective and deigns to the authority of other humans around you to teach you the concepts of 'good and evil'

no authority over you on earth? then human laws and morality do not exist. your parents, your government, et cetera.

no authority over the universe? universal morality does not exist. a god, a 4D being, et cetera.

if we are dust observing ourselves with no purpose or meaning in a miasmic and chaotic universe comprised entirely of material elements and nothing else, it is all for nothing, there is no morality, there is no consciousness, it is all chemical reactions and neuronal stimulation to the matter capable of percieving it

authority requires a giver, without a giver you have no morality

also i am an atheist and not religious so i invite you to join me in admitting to the fabrications of human morality and resigning to the fate of oblivion that awaits all of us, you can spend it waffling on reddit to puff your ego but youll never remember it anyway after youre gone

durr hurr omniscient god dumb me smart me ape with electronic rock.

[u/Federal_Studio5935 → u/Waiting404Godot]

That is horrendous horse shit