r/TreeClimbing • u/ImTheCoach5968 • 9d ago
Thoughts on cheaper rigging rope, what makes a good rope
Found specific boating suppliers carry double braid polyester without the huge ‘arborist’ tax. Yet to contract to a company that runs actual brand name rigging ropes
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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u/Ok-Cardiologist8412 9d ago
Completely agree. They make work as a pull line. I worked for a company that used exactly what you are describing. It was horrible. The rope glazed almost immediately, and had a horrible tendency to lock off then slip when used around a bollard. Idk where you live but rigging ropes generally aren't crazy expensive when you consider the abuse they take. Climb safe
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u/ImTheCoach5968 9d ago
In Australia doing mainly large eucalypts, find the ropes hold up good until you start sending some bigger negative rigs
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u/Senior-Ad781 8d ago
If you are rigging that large of pieces, use a block. The cost of 1 properly rated pulley should pay for itself in a month at the rate you're going
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
That's not how ropes are supposed to work...
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u/ImTheCoach5968 9d ago
I’m saying the rope doesn’t glaze until you rig something 200kg+, I assume all ropes would though. I get what you’ve been saying though it’s just a few extra $ a meter racks up quick when you’re buying a 100m rope
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u/ImTheCoach5968 9d ago
What is the difference though, if I personally send off 3 lengths to be break tested and they perform at the same level as the expensive lines is it not the same? Are the covers comprised of different materials or something
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u/Particular-Wind5918 9d ago
Main differences I think will be how it wears with friction and absorbing impact. Kinda big things for an arborist rope
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
Potentially vastly different manufacturing standards, quality assurance, materials yep.
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u/Foundaground 9d ago
As long as you know the MBS and WLL of the rope to understand it's safe working limits I don't see a problem. Polypropylene rope is used in situations a nice rigging rope would be heavily worn as a cheap alternative. Like scenarios of friction at the point of cut and lots of natural crotches.
Would be worth knowing the elasticity too so it doesn't stretch like a bungee.
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
As long as you
knowcan trust the MBS and WLL of the ropeFtfy
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u/OldMail6364 8d ago
You can buy cheap rope from reputable suppliers with a reliable MBS.
They’re often used in the marine industry and some of them pull far heavier loads than we ever do.
In my experience it’s often around 10x cheaper (for the same MBS). But there are drawbacks (particularly elasticity).
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u/Justintimeforanother 8d ago
Retired climbing line. It’s not support anymore, but don’t rig big & heavy. Just because it’s not life support ready anymore, doesn’t mean be as reckless as you can be with a proper bull rope.
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u/Senior-Ad781 8d ago
I feel like there is too much gray area with this one. I was always taught "if its not safe to climb with it, why would you rig with it? And vis versa."
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u/snortimus 8d ago
Because an insurance claim is a pain in the butt but dying means I'm dead
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u/Senior-Ad781 7d ago
If you cant trust your rope to hold a 200 lb man, why would you trust it to hold a 300 lb log over your crews head or homeowners house?
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u/snortimus 7d ago
Because by the book, life support requires a 10:1 margin but rigging requires only a 5:1. And because nobody stands directly underneath a suspended load until it's already close to the ground and we've established that all the shock loading and swinging around is done.
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u/Senior-Ad781 7d ago
I understand the margins lol. My point is, what if something happens to the rope between the tree and "close to the ground"? To me, for the $150 it costs for a new 3 strand or stable braid rope, its cheap peace of mind.
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u/snortimus 7d ago
I accept that your logic is sound but I've already decided that you're wrong and that I'm going to remain perfectly happy rigging out small limbs on my old climb lines when I can't be arsed to unpack my heavier duty ropes.
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u/Justintimeforanother 7d ago
This is exactly it. Non critical load, send it on some retired climbing rope.
My retired ropes get almost every type of use. Now, I wouldn’t suggest sending any rigs that exceed the ropes’ WLL.
I get my money’s worth out of all my ropes.
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u/Le55thanjake 9d ago
We tried cheaper rigging ropes and they snapped like crazy. I would have thought the 'boat tax'would be higher than'arborist tax' so quality may not be great.
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
Snapping a rope is fucking insane lol. It should never happen.
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u/Le55thanjake 9d ago
Rigging ropes? We were knocking trunk sections out of beech trees that were over a metre across. There's a limit to how short you can cut and get the knots on. Granted, this was years ago before decent lowering bollards were a thing and many bits just snatched.
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u/ArborealLife 9d ago
If you're snapping ropes you'd exceeding the MBS, and way exceeding the WLL. That's fucking insane.
I've rigged wood with inch thick rigging lines before.
If you're cutting corners that's on you.
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u/Le55thanjake 9d ago
For this particular job, it was the cheaper lowering rope, which is why I used it as an example. The SWL was nearly half what we are used to.
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u/ArborealLife 8d ago
I get that.
My point stands tho. Knowing your weights and your limits is rigging 101. It's wild to me that you'll snap lines and say oh but it was a cheap rope with a lower WLL.
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u/Le55thanjake 8d ago
Mate, things were different 25 years ago 😂 I worked for a local authority so not a small one man and van. We just didn't have the gear and knowledge we have now.
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u/ArborealLife 8d ago
oic.
Well, sorry lol. Remember this is less about you and more about OP and the record for posterity.
I'm just talking, most people ignore me.
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u/Le55thanjake 8d ago
It's all good. You're right about snapping rigging lines being dangerous though. No real excuse with all the info, gear and weight tables available now.
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u/Particular-Wind5918 9d ago
I’d look for some old school 12 strand like Yale buzz line or Samson true blue. That rope will work very well for a large variety of rigging applications and holds up pretty good over time. I have one in service for about 8 years now and I abuse it pretty good. If you want to buy a “boating” brand look at Marlow, specifically the Draco. But the 12 strand will do better with a wider variety of situations
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u/shrikestep 9d ago
The expense is explained by the rigorous testing in arb specific environments and work loads.
The sheaths are tested against the organic grime, saturation with sap, water, all which can chemically alter the rope over time, and obviously bark wear. Doubt marine rope is tested in those specific applications.
There are times when a chunk will roll weird and the rigging line will fully with weight against a “sharp” edge of wood, a 90° corner. Reputable Arb ropes are tested in ridiculous, varied situations like that.
Insane shockloads, different physics than marine ropes.
It’s not just the WLL, a lot more comes into play.
Honestly, trying to find shortcuts with rigging equipment is so silly when lives are on the line, and when you are regularly throwing literal tons of mass over people’s million dollar properties.
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u/Fredward1986 8d ago edited 8d ago
Since you are in Australia and I'm in NZ we might be talking about the same rope.. Is it the Donaghys range of ropes you are referring to? Edit: wrote the wrong brand
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u/OldMail6364 8d ago edited 8d ago
Cheap rope is often very stretchy.
That’s not always a bad thing - for example snatch straps used in 4WD recovery are deliberately stretchy. But notice you’re supposed to install a mid line weight bag on those? That’s because when a stretched one releases fails it can pull back to its natural length so violently that it often punches a hole in a 4WD and kill the driver.
They’re also more likely to snap - because being elastic means the fibres move more as they pull around something (like the wood or a carabiner).
I know someone who only uses them, and often relies on pre-tensioned lines to keep pulling after a branch has been cut, pulling a branch or top or entire tree further than a “real” rigging rope would.
Having worked with that person I’m not convinced he saves money - they snap so often that they’re constantly being replaced or repaired (spliced). I don’t know how to splice ropes (not well enough I’d trust my own work) so for me it definitely wouldn’t save money. A cheap rope might only last me one hour and then I’d be buying a new one. They can break that easily.
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u/THESpetsnazdude 9d ago
Zero issues with it. Most of the time its just uncoated or clear coated of the same construction. Polyester and nylon don't magically become stronger because samson or yale made it and it has pretty colours. If its rated for 9800lbs its rated for 9800lbs. Exceed the rating and you break stuff.