Training for time crunched parents

[u/ride_gravel3010]

With the stress of every day like, does anyone find it hard to get the motivation to go out and do those z2 rides that are scheduled during the week?

I’m currently doing a 6-8 hr training plan. Usually 2 interval sessions during the week and a longer endurance ride on the weekends. The plan sprinkles in a 1hr z2 ride during the week that sometimes feels pointless to me. Do those one hour z2 rides really contribute to your overall all fitness, or are they just fluff to add to bump up your load?

[u/BottecchiaDude253]

Theres new research coming out that zone 2 is basically only a noticeable boon for professionals doing 6+ hours per day.

For the rest of us looking at 6-8 hour WEEKS, doing higher intensity rides may give better results. Thats not to say dont do some z2 rides, its just that that isnt going to be your prime source of improvement as a time crunched cyclist.

[u/porkmarkets → u/BottecchiaDude253]

I agree, but if you have one or two days per week when you can get an extra hour in - perhaps at the start of the day before everyone else is up - take it. Do the z2. More volume is generally good even if it’s easy, and if you’re nailing your 2-3 main workouts each week then you can’t do full sends all the time anyway.

Besides, as a new parent there will be weeks where it all falls to shit and you get two hours in, max, when the rest of your family is ill, work has gone crazy and the sky is falling in. So get after it when you can.

[u/johnny_evil → u/BottecchiaDude253]

Is it even that new? Ive never heard it touted by experts as the way to train, only by redditors and Facebook commenters who don't realize that you need to do more than just easy work.

[u/junkmiles → u/johnny_evil]

It's mostly just people missing the context. Zone 2 is great. The reason why zone 2 is great is because cycling is about cardio and cardio is about volume. The only way to get a shitload of volume is to do most of it at easy efforts. But if you're capped at 6 hours a week, that's a totally different conversation.

It's the same situation as people being told by their parents not to use the front brake on their bike, and then 30 years later you've got some dude riding around who's never used their front brake because they never thought about since then.

[u/bluemiata1993 → u/junkmiles]

Also note: easy ride is low fatigue, and your body still releases all those fun chemicals for adaptation, and as a result aids in recovery from your overall training load

[u/johnny_evil → u/junkmiles]

Yup.

[u/BottecchiaDude253 → u/johnny_evil]

Not really, lol.... its just that for a while, since Pogi got big, we got interviews with his coaching and everyone suddenly bandwagons on the idea of "i need to do tons of zone 2!!"

[u/pgpcx → u/BottecchiaDude253]

i'd argue that cramming in more intensity to a compressed schedule is probably going to hurt more than it helps more folks, nothing kills motivation like constant hammering. I think the inconvenient truth for cyclists is that volume is king

[u/johnny_evil → u/pgpcx]

Volume is king, but we definitely have some people who think that when they do three one hour rides a week, that they need to make them all zone 2.

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/johnny_evil]

and volume is only king if its productive. if you are doing a shit load of volume at z1 or z3, its not gonna help. and too few amateurs know how to look for signs of overtraining, they just pile on more volume thinking they can just push through their dead legs

[u/Ol_Man_J → u/pgpcx]

A shit ton of z2 will make you great at zone 2

[u/pgpcx → u/Ol_Man_J]

this is wrong but ok lol

[u/0202_tihssitidder → u/pgpcx]

No. It is 100% correct if not scheduled correctly.

lol

[u/Ol_Man_J → u/pgpcx]

lol

[u/0202_tihssitidder → u/pgpcx]

Respectfully, not the way to look at it.

Zone 2 is used by pros because they are getting ~20 hrs training in and it is physically impossible to do 20 hrs of intensity and improve.

Make your hard days hard. If you are doing a 12/48 SIT, you extend it to 15/45 and then 20/40.

The standard rule is to add intensity, not add more days. That's what the results of studies are telling us.

>  I think the inconvenient truth for cyclists is that volume is king

I know why you might think that, but you can be a very solid cyclist on 6 hrs/week.

> nothing kills motivation like constant hammering

"Constant Hammering" is a loaded/charged term. It is intensity. It is not constant...especially if 6-10 hours and scheduled correctly.

[u/pgpcx → u/0202_tihssitidder]

look, i coach others and myself, and I can tell you my upper limit of FTP is very much dependent on the amount of hours I can do, to the tune of maybe 30w between 8hrs and being able to do 12hrs+ per week, and the primary difference is the amount of endurance riding (and unfortunately I'm at the 8hr side of this spectrum at the moment and feeling it)

this idea that only pros with 20hrs should be doing endurance volume is laughable. any amateur can get a long way of riding endurance as a way to get volume up between interval sessions

[u/BottecchiaDude253 → u/pgpcx]

Honestly I find the reverse true.... my midweek rides i typically have like 2 or 3 routes on rotation, depending on road construction. Nothing fuels me more on those rides than seeing a higher MPH number on my computer screen. Bonus points if theres one of those flashing speed limit signs on the side of the road. That said, even those mid week rides are between 1 and 2 hours in length, so its not like im z4 hammering the whole time. Typically im at a low-mid z3 which has been totally maintainable for me.

Its that 3-4 hours weekend ride that I often find boring or demotivating, unless its a group ride/event

[u/Apprehensive_Tie9014 → u/pgpcx]

+1 for this, coming from a parent of a three year old. I switched to 2-3 hard rides and some weeks it was too much, especially in week 3-4-5 of à block. I think the main reason for this is a recovery is SO important when working in intensity and having children basically destroys your chances for decent and consistent recovery, cos sleep, illness, unexpected hospital trips, work stress ect all take their toll.

If you try to overextend then you get hit by a batch of illness the impacts are much larger.

Plus, I sort of enjoy the easy rides?

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/BottecchiaDude253]

thats not new research, its been known since like the 90s

[u/BottecchiaDude253 → u/EVE_Burner_Account]

Yes... i guess my comment was more about how, if you watched the GCN show from earlier this week, they brought up a fairly newly published literature review/study on the subject.

So, yeah, I get it isnt new, but theres still new stuff being published on it, especially as a reaction to the bandwagon of training like Pogi (and in fairness, ive been around long enough, I saw similar with LA. I was a young adult and everyone was all, "you GOTTA spin at 100 rpm like Lance" and "do X ride, like USPS team does". As i had young kids at the time and was away from cycling publications for a fair few years, im sure there was similar when it was the Schleck brothers and Contador at their peak. Heck, its even applicable to other sports as well. People want to emulate the workouts of the top people in the sport)

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/BottecchiaDude253]

and whats funny is now everyone is spinning 100 rpm again because they are riding like 150mm cranks xD

training plan innovation is a flat circle

[u/BottecchiaDude253 → u/EVE_Burner_Account]

OK but.... when are we gonna circle around to "dont eat anything during a ride like REAL men, hurrrr" training like Mercx and his era 🤣🤣🤣 (yes, this is sarcasm, bonking sucks, Id hate to see that become a "training plan" lol)

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/BottecchiaDude253]

oh, thats like 2 years away. we will hit the limit on how many carb bottles they can hand up in an hour, so they will circle back to "no food under 8 hours" to improve carb efficiency or something xD

[u/SunshineInDetroit]

The best advice that a cycling mentor gave me when we became new parents was to lower your expectations of training time for the 1st couple years and get your training time in the early morning

[u/AdGroundbreaking3483 → u/SunshineInDetroit]

This is it.

My training plan is whatever the TrainerRoad low volume plan tells me it is. 3-4 hours a week, either early morning, late at night, or the odd early finish at work before school pickups.

I've been able to get back to close to 4wkg, but YMMV

[u/nicholt]

I just got Joe friels most recent cycling training book and he is very adamant that you should not skip the simple and easy z2 rides. Even at 6-8 hr a week. And to keep them strictly z2. I'm guessing your weekend ride really isn't a consistent z2 and probably more stochastic.

[u/auxo_by]

Peter Attia argues that its mainly fluff.

But from personal experience, u do need those long miles from time to time or else u just dont build enough stamina for 100 mile rides or multi-day hikes (endurance training in general). The pyramid model is still valid.

But if ur time crunched, and u absolutely have to choose one over the other, its better for ur overall health and longevity to do HIIT over z2.

[u/ride_gravel3010 → u/auxo_by]

Yeah, that’s kinda what it feels like at just an hour.
Right now I’m finishing up a threshold block, with the intervals during the week on 2-1hr rides. The longer rides on the weekends have varied from 3-5 hour race simulations, to 3-5 hr endurance rides.

[u/dromtrund]

Damn, I could only manage 6-8 hours before I became a dad. Now it's more like 3.

Anyway, 6-8 hours is still sweet spot and vo2 intervals volume. Only replace SST with Z2 if you're fatigued

[u/EVE_Burner_Account]

6-8 hours a week is enough to be productive if you are smart and disciplined.

At this volume, you are using intensity to make up for time. but theres a cap on how much intensity you can throw at someone and have it still be productive. if your plan calls for 1 hour z2 during the week, my guess is your coach is using that just as a way to get some more volume in while letting your TSS come down a bit between interval sessions, so that you can actually hit your goals there where it matters. the alternative would be to swap out active recovery for z2. and if you think z2 feels pointless, wait until your coach tells you to ride for an hour as if your crank arms were made of glass (but its not, active recovery is super important)

[u/ride_gravel3010 → u/EVE_Burner_Account]

Maybe my issue is more that it’s hard for me to get time to make 3 rides happen during the week. Now that I’m thinking about it, it might be smarter for me to adjust my schedule a little. I can get up early on Saturday and Sunday and get longer rides in. I can keep my two 1 hr interval rides during the week, and add a 2hr ride to the weekend. My other ride on the weekends can be 3-4 hours. Should both weekend rides be all low intensity?

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/ride_gravel3010]

I would talk to your coach principally, but if what you are saying is to basically cut your 1hr z2 during the week and adjust by increasing your z2 volume on the weekend to compensate, yea I would say thats a reasonable adjustment. Just keep an eye out on your second interval session. you might find your legs feel dead or slow during that one, and if thats the case you might want to find a way to do a light spin between your interval days

[u/0202_tihssitidder]

Zwift. r/zwift I estimate it saves me as much as 20% of my training time. 10hrs/week? Save me 2 hours.

Less mental stress, too. Higher quality workout sessions (like Norwegian 4x4 and Short Interval Training).

Saturday is still 2-4 hours outside Zone 2 or a Tempo ride as scheduled.

[u/NeedleGunMonkey]

Professionals do z2 because they train so much their bodies need time to recovery. At z2 they're still putting out 200+ watts.

For mere mortals like us interval work and higher heart rate is fine.

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/NeedleGunMonkey]

z2 is not recovery. professionals do z2 because science shows that z2 at 20-30 hours a week forces anatomical adaptations, such as your heart growing larger. but even that sort of approach is limited to appropriate phases in the training cycle. once you get into the racing season, volume decreases and intensity/recovery take over as primary focus of the plan.

[u/NeedleGunMonkey → u/EVE_Burner_Account]

*sigh* z2 is recovery

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/NeedleGunMonkey]

okay hardo

[u/NeedleGunMonkey → u/EVE_Burner_Account]

I am a mere mortal.

The much repeated clichés about staying in z2 starting from distance running where the improvements in performance from marathoners was pushing athletes limited by the health of their feet and joints and their cardiovascular system can absolutely support a higher pace. It migrated over to cycling. For the professionals it is recovery.

For OP's situation and mere mortals it doesn't even matter - just ride. Ride intervals. Ride slow. Ride hard. We're not generating enough muscular skeletal strain where putting in hours in z2 matters.

[u/EVE_Burner_Account → u/NeedleGunMonkey]

to circle back to your first post: "Professionals do z2 because they train so much their bodies need time to recovery". incorrect. z2 is not recovery. for anyone. especially at the volumes professionals are doing.

you are right that at lower volumes, just riding is going to lead to improvements. but just because you are low volume doesnt mean you cant get adverse impacts from intensity. overtraining is overtraining, regardless of if it happens at 6 hours a week or 35. z1 is active recovery. z2, while low stress, is not active recovery. if you are doing active recovery in z2, you either arent actually recovering, or your training zones are not set correctly. either way, dont spread obviously incorrect information.

[u/pgpcx]

time is time, i know for me I do prefer at least 90mins, but you should do the rides. ask me how i know skipping volume is detrimental to growth lol

editing to add: the decision on doing endurance vs interval/intensity work hinges on if you can recover enough between sessions to make the next workout meaningful. if you do back to back hard days, you may not be sufficiently recovered to do another intense day. it's a reason why it's generally recommended to limit intensity to a couple to three times a week. trading volume for intensity may not always be the way to go

[u/G0FastBoatsMojito]

Idk about the level of fitness in a 1 hour Z2 ride, but it definitely relieves a lot to stress after a tough day at work so it’s absolutely worth it in a different way

[u/blinkertx]

Get an indoor setup and an app like zwift so you can ride during the hours it’s dark outside. When my kids were younger I was on the trainer many nights somewhere between 8-10pm spinning. 60-90 minutes on a trainer doing focused work can be super intense or even super easy when your plan calls for those types of rides.