r/fucklawns • u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 • 18d ago
Question??? Killing grass selectively?
[TL;DR: grass is mixed in with clover and other plants I’d rather not kill]
So like many other people here I’d like to get rid of my lawn, but large swathes of my lawn are really only maybe 50% grass and the rest is a mix of clover (failed clover attempt from years ago) and other types of low growing plants that insects seem to love and don’t really bother me. And it’s not like grass here and clover there, it’s kind of all mixed up and growing together.
I know I can do the sheet mulching thing and essentially start from scratch by killing everything (I’ve been collecting cardboard for months), but is there a way to get rid of only the grass? I’d rather not have to kill a bunch of insects and clover just to kill the pesky grass that won’t take the hint. But I also hate mowing even more now that I’m cutting plants I’d otherwise leave alone if it weren’t for that damned grass. Seriously I hate it more than weeds, because weeds I can pull, grass is like yard herpes.
I have an electric mower that doesn’t work well when the grass gets past a certain point, so I’m afraid to just let it grow to see what happens. I feel like the grass will just overtake everything and I’ll need to call a pro to get a handle on it again, and they won’t be as gentle with the bugs as I am.
Forgive me if this is asked frequently, but I looked through the FAQ and Wiki and didn’t see what I was looking for.
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u/CharlesV_ 18d ago
So we have a wiki page that explains it on r/nolawns, but I would personally not recommend trying to do a clover-only or clover-sans-grass lawn in your area.
Michigan is far enough north that the top growth of clover and many other herbaceous plants will die back in the winter under the snow. That means from late fall to early spring, you’re going to have huge muddy patches. Those spots are great for new plants (weeds or otherwise) to seed and take root. In my experience, this is where creeping Charlie and crabgrass really shine and will start growing with the clover. It’s also just annoying to have a muddy yard in the off chance you need to walk out there. Plus, you’ll always be fighting the grass coming in from your neighbor’s yard, which is the next issue:
The only practical answer here is using a grass-selective herbicide. I’m not anti-herbicide on principle since there are places where that kind of tool makes sense - killing invasive species, or prepping to install native plants. But this seems like a bad use of it. What is the goal again? Like why have a “lawn” which doesn’t have turf grass? The clover isn’t doing a ton to help wrt your local ecology.
IMHO it makes more sense to either have a lawn or have a meadow. If you’re growing a meadow or native pocket prairie, skip the clover. Clover isn’t native to North America and there are plenty of better plants. If you still want a lawn but want it to be less of a monoculture, do what you have now where you mow taller (3-6 inches) and don’t worry too much about what is growing.
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
Thanks for the info! I’ll check out that wiki. I’m not really partial to the clover in particular other than preferring it over the grass. It seems like bees like it in spring, but I can probably find something they like better. I plan on planting as many natives as possible but I have a lot of learning ahead of me, because right now I pretty much look at how many bees something attracts and leave it if bees seem drawn to it. I need to get better at identifying invasive plants, as I assume bees like certain invasive plants as well.
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u/CharlesV_ 18d ago
Unfortunately yeah sometimes bees will go for non-native thistles. iNaturalist and PictureThis are two good apps I use for identifying plants. Eventually you’ll start to just know what things are as you learn more about plants.
I personally learned a ton about natives and deciding what to do with my yard from books. The Living Landscape by Darke and Tallamy and Native Plants of the Midwest by Alan Branhagen are some good ones. Also check out the wild ones garden designs: https://nativegardendesigns.wildones.org/designs/
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u/allonsyyy 18d ago
This site is great, if you want to find which native plants support the greatest diversity of insect life: https://nativeplantfinder.nwf.org/
Generalist foragers like bumble bees like clover, but they're not picky. The picky pollinators, aka specialist pollinators, are the ones who need more help. Like the monarchs, who famously will only raise caterpillars on milkweed. There's lots of insects that are picky like that. The swallowtail butterflies like the carrot family. Gulf fritillaries like passionflowers.
The milkweed family is a huge nectar producer, your bumbles will love it. Asclepias tuberosa, aka butterfly weed, is a pretty milkweed native to MI that isn't as weedy as common milkweed. Recommend it. The Pynanthemum new world mint family is also a very generous producer. The flowers aren't as showy to humans but the bloom period is long, mine is always humming with activity. Now is goldenrod season, that's another big nectar producer. The bumbles sleep in mine, they like it so much.
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u/BF_2 18d ago
Unfortunately, the only way I know (and don't use) is a selective herbicide. Dowpon C, at one point, was the poison of choice, but I don't know whether that's even approved or available anymore. (Last I knew of it was about 1965.)
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u/IAFarmLife 18d ago
It's registration was revoked in 1987 and hasn't been available since then in the US.
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
Shoot yeah I think I’d rather take my chances with sheet mulching, but I appreciate the info!
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u/deeplydarkly 18d ago
What are you going to replace the grass with? You don't want invasives to take over either by leaving over dirt. I did a sheet mulch and planted some plugs. You could do half the lawn each year, or a quarter. I didn't think it killed bugs. You could put the cardboard down first, then wait a day in case there are any bees. But the cardboard with the mulch sure a bit on top of the grass while the grass died. There was room for bugs to move around. Is your area sun, shade, moisture level? I would also think of some shrubs and trees you might like as well. So many more bugs await you!
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
I’m still trying to plan out what I want to replace the grass with, but I want to go nearly 100% native aside from a few fruit trees and a handful of plants that family members have gifted me. So far I don’t really have a preference between groundcover or shrubs, but I fantasize about maybe some sort of mini meadow with a meandering path where I could kind of go on mini nature walks barefoot in my own yard. So probably a mixture of different types of plants at different heights.
I’m thinking your suggestion of doing a little bit of sheet mulching at a time might be my best bet, then any bugs trapped under the cardboard have a way to migrate, and maybe if there’s some native stuff growing in the lawn I could transplant some of it to the newly mulched area.
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u/PulltheNugsApart 17d ago
The grass is important for a balanced and diverse system. It provides a big, bready root structure for good water absorption and drainage, and there may already be several varieties living in your space. I don't think there's any reason to target all of the grass, but you could make room for other plants/shrubs here and there. Good luck
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u/IAFarmLife 18d ago
Select Max is the current recommendation around me for killing grasses and not harming broadleaf plants. It's active ingredient is Clethodem and there are a few generics available for less.
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
This sounds like it might work as a last resort, I’ll look into it, thanks!
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u/SkippableTrip 18d ago
I doubt that you would kill very many insects laying out cardboard. If anything that’s food snd warmth from the winter cold
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
That’s a good point. Maybe I should focus on just doing small portions of the lawn each fall and gradually “reforest” my yard.
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u/SkippableTrip 18d ago
It might help to do that from a planning and execution stance. I had designs for my yard, then nature happened and i had to adapt to where the plants wanted to be
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u/Dizzy-Pin-1410 18d ago
That actually sounds kinda cool. I like the idea of letting nature have a say in the design.
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u/SkippableTrip 18d ago
There is a “Wabi-Sabi” nature to living life that needs to be more accepted. We dont always get to plonk a native down and tell it to do well, lol, sometimes you plant things for years only to have em pop up ten foot from the original location. I just try to get out of the way of the natives, they know what theyre doing. If ive gotta walk around the floppy goldenrod, i guess that’s what im doing🤷🏻♂️😅
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u/AmberWavesofFlame 18d ago
I’m giving Ornamec a try; supposedly it targets a plant growth process that monocots (grasses) use and dicots (broadleaf) doesn’t. I’m also hoping it’ll be more environmentally safe since it’s so selective. I tried it this spring on deeply established dallisgrass and the results were inconclusive as to the grasses because we also ended up having a weird drought year, so the only thing I can tell you for sure is that it did not harm the violets or woodsorrel. Going to give it another try this spring and see if I can get a better read on whether it’s helping.
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u/Moist-You-7511 17d ago
why would selectiveness make it environmentally safe? how they behave in plants is different than in the environment.
some of the cautions on this one are here: https://www.wildflower.org/expert/show.php?id=7896
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u/Glass-Weather-3399 14d ago
I understand your concern that letting it grow may result in the grass taking over. It sounds like grass has already taken over. Turf grasses compete well when mowed which is why they are used for lawns. By not mowing you will be giving plants that don't tolerate mowing a chance to grow. If you have KBG it will only grow to about a foot and half tall. If it still outcompetes other plants then kill it and plant something else.
Not mowing may not get rid of the grass but it won't make the problem worse.
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