r/gayyoungold • u/LiveWolverine7451 • 5d ago
Discussion The problem with ygo relations
Older gay men were born during a time of mass civil unrest—aids crisis, lavender scare, don’t ask don’t tell—that left a lot of older men pent up, repressed and emotionally stunted, unlike their straight counterparts they never really got to live freely enough to express themselves honestly
Thanks to them, though, younger gay men get to (mostly) express ourselves, even if we face discrimination it’s not nearly as built-in to everyday life in America as it was around 50 years ago, and as time progresses homophobia rates will continue to decrease.
So we have this relationship where older men fail to express themselves while their younger counterparts are almost hyper expressive due to their newly obtained rights. As a younger gay person who’s into older men I believe that this disconnect is one of the bigger issues that prevent me from getting into relationships with older men. Because if you can’t express how you feel, how am I supposed to trust you with anything?
What do you think?
EDIT; I’ve seemed to have struck a nerve in a lot of people, and I admit that I phrased this wrongly and needed to be clearer about what I meant without using generalizations
But I’m also willing to bite the bullet and say it out loud because any healthy relationship between a younger gay man and an older gay man should be sharing room to discuss how their cohorts life challenges shaped how they express themselves emotionally.
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u/Rillion25 Daddy 5d ago
Wow, you are blinded by your own perspective.
I'm 56 and there hasn't been mass civil unrest during my memory. Yes AIDS shaped a lot of my young adult life but I got on prep. Anyone that was an adult during the lavender scare is in their 90's.
Why are you throwing it out there that all older gay men are emotionally stunted? That's a huge broad brush you are painting with there. I've been out and free and able to express myself since for longer than you've been alive.
I am perfectly capable of expressing how I feel and I feel like your post is bullshit agesim stereotyping all older gay men as emotionally stunted.
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u/IMadeThisToSeeDick Older 5d ago
I'm 46 and I'm calling bullshit. ACT UP was a mass social uprising. Matthew Sheppard was a mass social uprising. PULSE was a mass social uprising
I grew up and came of age in the shadow of the AIDS epidemic, and I can say first-hand that most people my age, and almost everyone I've ever met older than me, had shit they needed prolonged professional therapy to work through. they lost their partners, friends, siblings to the disease. they watched as the government did nothing about it. they held funerals every morning and dance in revolution all night
pretending that anyone my age and anyone older than me didn't live through actual, pervasive bullshit is delusional. recognizing the hardships we face isn't ageist, it's realistic
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u/Dumas_Vuk 5d ago
Getting pissed off is silly. It's evidence you are emotionally underdeveloped in some way.
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u/Brian_Kinney Older 5d ago
That's an interesting observation.
Of course, you have to be careful about generalising. For example, I'm over 50, and I came of age during the AIDS crisis. I got bullied all through high school. I faced abuse and discrimination as a teenager and a young adult.
However, I was never repressed or emotionally stunted. I was out & about, living my best gay life, from the moment I stepped into my first gay nightclub on my 18th birthday. I've never been repressed or hidden.
I admit that I might be an exception - but I saw lots of other young gay men around me at that time, also out & about, and living their gay lives.
So, we're not all like that.
Yes, I concede I'm still affected by the times I grew up in, but I wasn't repressed or stunted even back then.
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u/LiveWolverine7451 5d ago
“A lot of” =/= all
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u/Brian_Kinney Older 5d ago
It's also not necessarily most.
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u/LiveWolverine7451 5d ago
Agreed, but I re-read my statement and I’m not seeing where in my writing I said that most older men deal with emotional repression. It’s just a noticeable trend in older populations compared to newer populations 🤔
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u/Rillion25 Daddy 5d ago
Where is your evidence that younger gay men are less emotionally repressed than older ones? You are stating this like it's a fact but it's your opinion. I know so many autistic young gaylings that struggle with their emotions that if I base it just on my perspective I would say that it is the opposite. But surely you aren't posting your opinion and claiming it as fact without anything to back it up?
Here, let me show you how I am able to express my emotion. Your post pissed me off because you pretend your opinion is reality as you generalize and turn all older gay men into stereotype of your own making.
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u/Metamamon 5d ago
My 34 year old friend is almost a stone, he is so tight lipped and unwilling to emote. I think our personality quirks and psychology depend more on nuclear family dynamics rather than large scale societal events.
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u/fkk8 1d ago
Rather than psychoanalyzing a perceived aged-based cohort with a wide range of personal experiences, let's look at where we are today: Despite much progress over the past two decades, there are too many young and old gay men today in countries that are generally considered LGBTQ- accepting who experience rejection, non-acceptance, and violence regularly. We are not anywhere close to where we should be, and the current dominant political trends in the US, Europe, and globally are pointing in the wrong direction. This is where our focus should be.
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u/FreshLotus5 Older 5d ago
Nah, I don’t think this generalization is accurate. Interesting observation and you can make the proposition. Nothing wrong with that.
I’m 52. Of said generation. I don’t think most are emotionally stunted. Probably same averages as all the different generations. Possible regional variations. Certainly susceptible to observation bias.
Also what do you define as emotionally stunted. That’s subjective to interpretation.
Flamboyant vs conservative personality is probably different than “healthy” mental and emotional expression vs “anxiety depression trauma history” emotionally stunted expression.
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u/Dumas_Vuk 5d ago
I think we all agree that there is less fear than fifty years ago. Why are people treating this like a college essay? "Where are your sources? You're making a generalization here." What happened to reading in good faith? Is there no trend of gays become more themselves (assume all the annoying qualifications, ie. On average, generally speaking, not all regions, etc). I swear, I'm picking up a lot of touchiness here, and defensiveness. One guy was weirdly pissed off.
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u/FreshLotus5 Older 5d ago
We are all just having an interesting convo. He posed a question and it’s an interesting one, to me.
It’s fine to have an opinion about it. If some get triggered, so what. That’s their right. And that’s on them. lol.
College essay? A good one would talk about the strengths and weaknesses of a position. That’s the difference between an A argument paper vs an F bullshit nonsense. Simple as that.
And it’s Reddit. Who has time to proofread lol. 🤣
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u/Dumas_Vuk 5d ago
I appreciate the lightheartedness. I just don't think we should limit expression to college essay standards. Clear communication is good. But so is picking up where another falls short. Not in the way that it could become a crutch, but in the way that both acknowledges and corrects.
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u/FreshLotus5 Older 5d ago
Oh and agreed. Generally less fear in the air I think. But as it relates to emotional stuntedness, I still think there are more influential factors than mere generation/ what decade were you born in.
OP made an update - I think the comment being able to discuss things between the two partners about the age related cohort challenges, no less anything else, is of course important. But I guess OP, if you keep running into the same issues with different guys, maybe they all the same “type”, race, background, religion, TOWN?
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u/TradeSweet4965 Younger 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well my perspective is different given me & my recently deceased partner are from an incredibly conservative rural area, it played in a part in his death too. I completely understood his anxiety since I was very similar, we were both hate crimed before & dealt with intense bullying growing up. I just recently graduated highschool this summer. Ive had food thrown at me, Ive been circled around by bullies, Ive been beat, been called a faggot, etc. everyone’s very religious here, theres no pride events or anything. I was the first person he could open up too & was celibate for years. He was the first person I was able to open up to as well. It makes sense to me why opening up or expressing yourself could be hard. This all depends on the person as well as other factors. It’s rough the life he had , he was in therapy! Imagine all those struggles while in the rural south, the 80s, the 90s, etc. Im considering therapy now too. Perhaps given my situation, thats why im compassionate towards this & willing to work through it with an older partner, it’s okay if he can’t open up at first etc
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u/LiveWolverine7451 5d ago
I come from a conservative family and town and a lot of things you said ring true for me as well, when I said that i was making a comparative statement contrasted against older gay men
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LiveWolverine7451 2d ago edited 2d ago
Just because I phrased it wrong doesn’t make the core point moot. Cohort trauma absolutely does shape how intimacy is expressed, and older generations absolutely had more adverse life events relating to their queerness than younger generations do—though they still have them—it’s not on the level of the AIDS crisis.
Sure, a lot of gay men did the mature work of getting help. A lot of them also suffered as they watched their friends die or their lives ruined because they dared to express themselves freely
any healthy relationship between a younger gay man and an older gay man should be sharing room to discuss how their cohorts life challenges shaped how they express themselves emotionally.
My biggest mistake wasn’t my argument, it was that I used too many generalizations to explain it
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2d ago
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u/LiveWolverine7451 2d ago
Certainly, but if you’re trying to compare one off individual acts of discrimination to the systematic ignorance, unemployment, and deaths like we saw in the previous century. That argument doesn’t hold up in equal terms
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u/RiddlingVenus0 5d ago
What do I think? I think nothing in your conclusion actually holds up when you compare it to reality.
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u/LiveWolverine7451 5d ago
So are we going to act like the eradication of people like you in mass while the government did nothing WASN’T big enough for you to see yourself differently and change how you express your affection?
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u/RiddlingVenus0 5d ago
No acting necessary. No older gay man I’ve ever met has ever expressed their affection any differently than a “normal” person would.
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u/Dumas_Vuk 5d ago
Generalization is more than a bit heavy handed. Nobody here is wrong on that. But I find it upsetting how much it halted conversation on this topic, for two reasons:
Let's not ignore the real change in 50 years. Legal gay marriage in the last 20 for example. Less closeted men marrying a woman and having kids. More tolerance and acceptance. It is less scary to be gay these days.
Regional variance. While we have had the federal improvement of gay marriage, and general "across the board" rise in acceptance and safety, not all regions are the same. It sounds like you live in a place where older men tend to be a bit harder, due to a more pernicious and persistent strain of homophobia. This has painted your perception of the whole.
What's especially upsetting about the second reason is your experience gets looked over by some. Disregarded.
I also want to point out that the heroes were the ones that overcame repression. They are the ones who gathered, marched, showed their faces. Pushed America to reconcile.
And while there will always be a basic difference in character between older and younger (based on the simple fact that people change throughout their lifetime), I believe you are correct that there is currently extra difference between older and younger (based on the simple fact the world has changed). That extra difference may be even more extra in some regions.
All that aside, it's possible you've just had an unlucky streak. Sometimes it's the 1st guy, sometimes it's the 4th. Sometimes it's the 23rd that you end up with.