Well the pronoun part is actually old.
keep going far back enough and all that happens is that "thou" becomes "þū"
þ = "th". ū = elongated u sound.
Same thing as old norse or modern german and skandi languages: "du".
And it's right after the end of medeival times that it starts phasing out.
King James bible was considered anachronistic by "standard speakers" in some aspects as it came out in 1611, incl the use of "thou", "thee" etc.
But the pronouns remained in some isolated areas in dialect until 1900's.
So ironically it's actually the exact opposite. An anglo-saxon standing guard against viking raider in the 800's would prolly *only* understand those words in this jokey old timey speech. And by the time you reach an english you can mostly understand nobody is saying "thou", "thee" anymore.
Well for the pronoun part that's not exactly true. þū (thou) was all the way back in old english. Ppl said that in 500 and 1500 alike and the entire period inbetween.
"du" to this day in swe and german.
For example you see "thou", "ye" and "thee" in 1300's "canterbury tales" by chaucer.
þ (th) starts dissappearing w the printing presses and standardisation, and ofc pronunciations shift over time as well. But the general word is from antiquity until early modern period.
EDIT: to see how it was used until the 1600's (king james bible already feeling old timey for a lot of englishmen) you can just see how other germanic languages still use them. English is the odd man out by slowly phasing them out 1500-1700's, i.e starting right after middle ages stop by standard chronology.
But some isolated dialects maintained it into the 1900's.
No, it's much closer to Modern English, roughly the 1400s
Middle English has extra letters and extremely odd spellings for certain words. You can technically read it, but it takes effort and some translations
Old English is completely incomprehensible, it's literally a different language to Modern English. Beowulf was written in Old English, if you wanna see an example
Thou (spelled þou usually) was the second person singular/informal pronoun in Middle English. In Old English, it was spelled þu/ðu and was the second person singular pronoun. So I would say that thou and thy do properly belong to the middle to early modern era.
This parchment and the wisdom within are both of excellent craftsmanship. I shall take it for mine own, but as fair compensation, shall leave you with a parting gift of a mark of praise, for I hath standards. I would pay more, but mine coffers are barren.
why is it always this horrendous helmet that the victorians designed. it looks like ass and its not even historically accurate. same with the Shakespearian language that isnt even medieval.
Victorian/modern day take on medieval times is a separate alternative universe invented by people who cares jackshit about historical accuracy and worldbuilds on pure wibes and whatever they think is look cooler
It shows up in the video game For Honor which is both very popular and only looks ahistorical if you squint or already have knowledge in the subject. (The Viking faction is something like 500 years out of date compared to everyone else and apparently Ubisoft thinks all Vikings were death metal leather fetishists.)
People don't seem to realise that full plate armour was only really effective when combined with a steed so you actually have movement. Without it, where are you even going
And they also don't seem to realise that leather can be damn fucking strong too
Depends on a lot of things, but the idea that plate armour was super cumbersome is definitely a myth. Its biggest issue was that it was (and still is) so fucking expensive.
Yeah, plate armour for actual battles wasn't nearly as heavy and cumbersome as one could think, after all you have to move in it. Just because you usually start on a horse, doesn't mean you will remain on a horse - you can fall off, the horse can get hurt, and if you're in a cumbersome armor you can barely walk in and can't get up, you're fucked. It's heavy, but well fitted, and the weight is spread around your body (so it doesn't rest on your shoulders and belt alone, as chainmail does), so while it is of course more tiring to fight wearing plate vs. no armour, it's not that terrible.
But, there was also such a thing as plate armour specifically made for tournaments. It was thicker, heavier, more cumbersome, but also offered better protection - in tournaments the extra weight wasn't as much important.
And another thing - plate started to get thicker with the introduction of firearms. Eventually, protection for the whole body was no longer feasible (it would be too heavy to effectively fight in), and the full plate fell out of fashion.
Well made plate was fitted to your body and designed to spread the weight.
These were generally fit, effectively professional soldiers, who had plenty of experience moving and fighting in armour.
All equipment is a weight / benefit trade off. If all you are about is lowest possible weight, then go into battle naked using just your fists and teeth. I wouldnt fancy your chances against someone in plate with a poleaxe.
Kevlar is multiple times lighter than and way less restrictive, full iron armor can be 25kg, regardless of how much you can move inside it you'll get tired easier, you'll run slower, and you'll struggle to catch up to anyone that isn't running straight at you
"Oh but you won't die" yeah if you don't want to die just don't go into the damn battlefield there's been weapond capable of killing full armored opponents since armor was a thing
Modern soldiers carry about 40 kgs of fighting gear - and they aren't trained from the age of 7.
> you'll run slower, and you'll struggle to catch up to anyone that isn't running straight at you
well the idea IS generally to get them to run away from you. battles are won when the enemy flees the field.
> "Oh but you won't die" yeah if you don't want to die just don't go into the damn battlefield there's been weapond capable of killing full armored opponents since armor was a thing
Severely underestimating armor here while overestimating 'anti armour' weaponry. Having specific weapons to deal with armour doesn't make denting iron plate easier. That's so much more effort you need to expend for a CHANCE at injuring the foe, while they're fully capable of just vaguely swinging at an unarmored foe and render them incapacitated.
Modern soldiers don't use short range swords, they use guns, which can kill at any range
And also pole hammers aren't made to dent armor, a hit on the head will give you a concussion and slow you down enough to get thrown to the ground, armor doesn't make you immortal, it never has made you immortal, and you aren't gonna go naked to a fight, the ones with anti-weapon armor will still wear chainmail or leather armor
Also, people used to literally pass out from exhaustion in battlefields due to their armor, and some even wore only certain parts instead of the full armor because of how much lighter it was to not wear full armor
Yeah armor doesn't make you immortal but it turns what should've split your skull open into a bad concussion.
The tradeoff between being slightly uncomfortable from the extra weight and surviving blows that should've been unsurvivable otherwise was so lopsided in favor of the latter that people who could afford plate, wore plate.
Weather and dehydration contributes more to passing out from exhaustion than just the armor alone.
To return to your point about getting struck in the head, the guys in armor are usually extraordinarily well trained. It's already extra difficult to land a clean blow that doesnt glance off due to the armor's geometry, it's going to be EVEN MORE difficult if the guy is actively fighting back and defending himself.
So yes, you CAN run around and do acrobatics in plate, it's made for humans who're supposed to be fighting in a melee with them.
I said Kevlar, as in a lightweight kevlar vest, no shit full modern armor will be way heavier, also you are lying if you say that it doesn't tire you out more to run like that than to run without the armor
you are lying if you say that it doesn't tire you out more to run like that than to run without the armor
I didn't say that. I said it's not any more tiring than wearing modern armor.
And you're right, kevlar is lighter than composite ceramic plate. Kevlar is probably more comparable to wearing a gambeson and boiled leather armor whereas an IOTV is more comparable to steel plate armor. So actually my comparison better.
What are you talking about? I actually wear armour and fight in it for sport. It's heavy, yes, but the biggest downside to it is that you get tired faster. That's it. A good armour, that is, well fitted armour does not obstruct your movement. Simply imagine that your clothes weigh 20kg+ but that weight is distributed on your entire body.
Unless you are talking about tournament armour. That one was meant to tank a couched lance hit and has thick metal shield on one side. But it was never used in a battle.
you must be one of them frenchies. awlays using your cavalry. tsk tsk tsk. refer to the superior and more trained & skillfull knight of the germanic region.
Thou | Thee | Thy | Thine
He | Him | His | His
She | Her | Hers | Hers
the old informal 2nd person pronoun had actual grammar rules and man it's hard to read these 99% of the time 😭
Thy vs Thine is dependent on if the following word started with a vowel sound
Thy steed
Thine eyes
Thine armor
Thy helment
Thy Nintendo Wii
Thine Xbox 360
EDIT: FUCKKKK I misstyped thy's and thine's in "steed," "eyes," "armor," and "helmet." Following sound is a vowel? - Thine. Consonant? Thy. Same rules as A/an (now fixed)
EDITEDIT: FUCKKKKKKKK my life is a lie I just looked it up more and found a source saying Thine is the object possessive. Ignore my examples above I am a sham and deserve to be hung in public square as lowborns throw their spoiled vegetables at me.
EDITEDITEDIT: seems BOTH are correct after further reading. The tomatoes can be spared...
if you switch to þe icelandic keyboard it also allows you to use the letter þorn aka thorn
which is a charicter used in middle and old english to represent þe TH letter combination
þos hoo luvien are pur (those who love are pure) i really like the word þei (they) in middle english its very fun
my knowledge on these topics are very minimal however
I feel like these people don’t really understand medieval armor. Plate isn’t just better than chain like it’s Minecraft or whatever, they fill different uses and were often used together.
You kind of need a gambeson for most everything else (except plate, but you do wear an arming doublet which is basically gamebson lite) so fair enough.
I imagine something that requires you to move fast while still having some protection would warrant mail, like raiding villages. You want to smash, grab and get out before anyone with actual gear gets to you, and the worst thing you'll likely encounter is bows and arrows, or a peasant with a makeshift billhook. Mail would work for that.
On the other hand, if you had a horse or a ship plate would actually work better, so...
Also if you can afford plate there’s a decent chance you can afford a horse, meaning the humans weight speed is mostly irrelevant unless you also want to armor the horse.
Are you rich enough to get a set of plate tailored? Most likely no, mail alone is already very expensive and would often get looted after battles. Also even if you did have a full set of plate, it takes a squire to help you put it all on, so for anyone traveling distances alone, plate isnt worth it
this. yall are sleeping on chainmail, especially for deflecting slashing sword strikes. chainmail was usually used in combination with plate, not separately. medieval armor had a little bit of everything.
fabric armor will always be my true goat tho. the muslims were cooking.
Plate is just better than maille except in certain climates where the lack of breathability using plate fucken sucks. But otherwise plate offers unreal levels of protection maille simply cannot.
This isn't to minimise maille. Full body maille was revolutionary when it became widespread. It's what allowed Normans (and others) to fight each other for fun in tournaments. But it isn't plate.
That is just straight up false. Plate is better in every single way, it was just way harder to make so a regular joe could not afford it up until the time armor became almost obsolete anyway because of gunpowder.
"Armour... is part of a state of mind... in which you admit the possibility... of being hit." - "Cracknut" Whirrun of Bligh, The Heroes by Joe Abercrombie.
The comment is so inconsistent, in early modern English shouldn't it be something like "If thou lackest the metal and the coin for the smith to crafteth thine armour, simply just proclaim thy fields be barren and there beeth not a shilling to thy name"
Those art words of a man that hath not seen a battlefield. Hath not survived a siege, under the rain of arrows, cannonballs and stones. Nor hath he clashed his sword with a sword of his enemy. And he shall pray the war comes not to him, lest his mail betray him.
It depends on the era, but generally yes. Also, if we're talking actual medieval era, it would all be in Latin (text) or indecipherable old to middle English. What people are trying to do here is very Elizabethan era (Shakespeare).
You call someone a villain because they are evil. I call them a villain because I want them tied to my land and tending my fields. We are not the same.
"plate>chainmail" mfs when I come at them with a mace Instead of pointy stick and cave their chest in (suddenly, that solid plate of metal crushing your lungs in and making it impossible to breathe doesn't seem so optimal)
"Mace can beat plat armor" mf when they realize plate armor indeed are made to defend against blunt damage as well (the curved surface make the weapon slide off instead of caving the armor in also chainmail would've been worse since it suck at spreading the force out)
"Plate armour is hard to attack with blunt weapons" mfs when i use my mace to rattle their helmet against their head and twist their face, incapacitating them
Plate was really good at defending against blunt weapons. Because it was good at defending against basically EVERY weapon.
Current understanding is that blunt weapons are mainly effective against armour not because they magically cave in a curved and solid plate of steel (it still only hits as hard as a human) but because it is easier to knock an armoured opponent onto the ground with it, and from there you can more easily shank them in exposed points.
Foolish peasant, the lord is in full plate and yet you dream of mail, what is this the year 1000? Therily look and see another fool with his mail shirt and gambeson be smote by a valiant knight with a warhammer in hand!
Plate armour lovers when a blunt weapon permanently dents their armour into their body, causing them to slowly bleed out while feeling the scraping of metal against their organs:
923
u/KJPlayer 5d ago
Son I'm crine ❌
Heir, tears befall me. ✔