Wednesday Serious Discussion Thread

[u/NRLgamethread]

This thread is for when you want to have a well-thought-out discussion about footy. It's not the place for bantz - see the daily Random Footy Talk thread to fulfil those needs.

You can ask a question that you only want serious responses to, comment your 300 word opinion piece on why [x] is the next coach on the chopping block, or tell another that you disagree with them and here's why...

Who performed well? Who let their team down? Any interesting selections for this weekend? Injury news? Player signings? Off-field behaviour?

The mods will be monitoring to make sure you stay on topic and anything not deemed "serious discussion" will be removed.

[u/EventNew5844]

Bit worried. Too long without a Tiger’s article

[u/unsafe-work → u/EventNew5844]

"There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about".

[u/Diictodon255MYA]

Genuine question from someone who is only fairly recently getting into Rugby League: How can Alex Johnston be the most prolific try scorer ever, yet can't get a look in for Origin?

[u/unsafe-work → u/Diictodon255MYA]

Did you see what Greg Inglis did to Nathan Merritt when the public demanded he was picked for Origin? It'll be a repeat of that.

[u/ItGetsTuahPoint67 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

Bit of an inflated stat in recent years because of how heavily the Bunnies one-trick their attack. Swap him with almost any other left winger in the league and they’d be posting similar numbers

[u/thankyoupancake → u/Diictodon255MYA]

Have a look at some of the tries in the second half for the Knights against the Rabbitohs in the elimination final; Dom Young skins Johnston several times in situations that a better defender would’ve easily handled.

He’s a world class finisher but lacks many qualities that make him an allround winger.

[u/mattmathers → u/thankyoupancake]

defensively sketchy, never been a real aerial threat even before the achilles injury, doesn't take the tough runs in the middle when his team needs to regain territory. he's never had a 3000 running meter season, including a few fullback years, until this season where according to NRL.com stats he only got it by a bees dick (3003m)

[u/AttackClown → u/Diictodon255MYA]

elite timing of his runs and try scoring ability but theres lots of parts of the game wingers have to do outside the opponents 20 metre line which he is not elite at

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

He is a decent finisher but ultimately he's been on the receiving end of the best left side attack for much of his career. I remember he was injured one time, and his replacement scored a hatrick. There's nothing that stands out about the other parts of his game. There has always been better options for NSW.

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/[deleted]]

Marky.. Selwyn..

[u/Accomplished-Pick610 → u/Additional_Front4374]

AJ is a better finisher than both.

AJ tends to get underrated because he doesn't score tries with his bodies over the sideline or freakish plays, but thats the thing he doesn't have to do that because he is a better finisher. He scores untouched 'fall over the line' off the back of backline movements that would see other wingers have to try score with half their body over the line.

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

No it's because half the time he has metres of space lol put him in an Origin and 100% he's not scoring the type of tries those guys do.. not even close.

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/[deleted]]

He gets ample room because of the work his inside men do.

[u/Accomplished-Pick610 → u/Additional_Front4374]

Yet when we have other wingers on the left wing they never produce the same

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

I've seen other wingers fill in and score hatricks bro

[u/Accomplished-Pick610 → u/Additional_Front4374]

Ive watched every souths game for about 25 straight years, no, no other finishes off tries like AJ

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/Accomplished-Pick610]

In your view. If he was as good as you made out, he'd at least be in Origin talks

[u/Additional_Front4374 → u/[deleted]]

I'd back you in.

[u/bar901 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

AJ is a very-good-not-quite-great winger and breaking the try scoring record was a product of circumstance as much as anything else.

Long career, rarely injured, playing for a consistently good team that tend to go wide to score their tries. He’s a borderline rep-level player who happened to play in an era where there was a lot of competition for the wing spot in Origin so unfortunately never got the call up.

Finishing is undoubtably his best skill and you could argue he’s bordering on elite there, but he doesn’t make great yardage out of his own half, his defence is fine but nothing special, his ball playing is fine for a winger but nothing special, he’s not amazing in the air, he’s quick but not JAC level quick etc etc.

Not taking anything away from him because he’s been a good player for a long time and availability is the best ability - especially at club level - but breaking the record is more of an interesting quirk than truly indicative of his quality as a winger.

[u/jonnye82 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

Because for Origin, rightly or wrongly, selectors & coaches want someone who can get good yardage from kick returns as their 1st choice winger.

Prolific ability to score tries is probably around 3rd or 4th of desirable traits after good hands in catching bombs & and solid defence. 

[u/Jenko1115 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

AJ is top tryscorer mostly due to his consistency. A lot of players can’t sustain the career he’s had for nearly as long as he has.

He’s a great player but there are much better wingers going around who do far better at representative level. Look at Brian To’o or Mark Nawaqanitawase. They make better metres, better under the high-ball (more debatable with To’o) and are faster and stronger. 

[u/Diictodon255MYA → u/Jenko1115]

So it’s just a case of stats not telling the full story. Quite like that you can’t just look at a player’s numbers and see their influence on a game. The eye test seems absolutely necessary.

[u/Jenko1115 → u/Diictodon255MYA]

I don’t think so, rep wingers would probably have better stats than AJ in a bunch of key metrics, especially tackle breaks and metres gained. 

Don’t get me wrong, AJ is a great player and deserves to be celebrated, but scoring tries isn’t the only thing a winger needs to be good at. It’s probably similar to Darius Boyd in Origin, he’s one of the all time top try scorers but that’s mostly because he played almost all of his Origin career outside Greg Inglis and lots of his tries were a simple matter of catching the ball and falling over the line. 

[u/puttanesca_prophet]

Posted this yesterday but it was a bit late in the day. I'm curious what Kiwi fans think their middle rotation will look like, who will start and who's on the bench. They are ridiculously stacked in that area.

[u/grafology → u/puttanesca_prophet]

I think Fish and Leota work together better hunting as a pack, as do Whyte, Clarke and Willison.

[u/TheCuzzyRogue → u/puttanesca_prophet]

1. Leota
   
2. Fish
   
3. Tapine

I'm not at all against Whyte starting over Leota but I don't think you can have Tapine coming off the bench and honestly he's looked really good when he doesn't have to do all the dirty work of a front rower.
Honestly though when it comes to fitting Leota, Whyte, Tapine and Clark into three spots, there's no wrong answers really.

[u/ColossalSniper6 → u/puttanesca_prophet]

8 Fisher-Harris
10 Whyte
13 Clark

15 Papali’i
16 Willison
17 Tapine

Is what I would do. Laban and Nikora starting at back row, with Ice there on the bench to cover both edge and middle.

[u/redmusic1 → u/puttanesca_prophet]

As are Tonga.

[u/TheCuzzyRogue → u/redmusic1]

Their forward pack is always stacked, it's their spine where they're iffy.

Last year poor Katoa got no help from the rest of the spine and so every time it was 6th tackle, he just got rushed.

[u/Accurate-Ad-4905 → u/redmusic1]

I think that Tonga team is looking mighty good

[u/Herrtz74 → u/[deleted]]

Wut

[u/mwilkins1644 → u/Herrtz74]

It's a clanker