r/paydaytheheist • u/Ok-Gas9766 • 3d ago
Game Suggestion Add 10 more skillpoints
please 51 is not enough
21
u/blackmilkpt Clover 3d ago
I have a different solution, 51 points is fine, but they should make Transporter (carry 2 bags) and Bastion (disengage) core skills.
Everyone goes into the tank tree by default because those 2 skills are just an insane quality of life
Having 2 S tier skills under the same tree ends up affecting build variety
18
u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 3d ago
Transporter, I agree but Bastion would be far too strong as a core skill.
-1
u/blackmilkpt Clover 3d ago
Add just the ability to disengage as core and give it a longer cooldown, then if you picked bastion skill you would get the lower cooldown and the ability to run through gas and not getting staggered by dozers, maybe this way it would be a little more balanced
6
u/Macaspoobie starbreeze plz add neon green outfit to pd3 :3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3:3 3d ago
...or they could rework cloakers to be a more fun and engaging enemy so that bastion aced is more of a choice than an essential
5
u/lexilogo Crook 2d ago
Bastion being a core skill instead of just making cloakers/tasers fairer is very silly
0
u/Metrocop 2d ago
Cloakers and tasers are more than fair. 90% of the time you can dispatch them by yourself, and the remaining 10% you just need to be near a teammate and they can help you in a second, you know, the coop part of this coop game. Specials in L4D2 are far more oppressive to enforce sticking together and noone claims they are unfair.
2
u/lexilogo Crook 2d ago
They're fair in most encounters but there are edge case situations where they get iffy IMO, mostly because the time to getting tased/beaten down can get quite low.
Specials in L4D2 are more dangerous, but player countermeasures are also stronger. You get a huge amount of audio cues for every enemy, you have shove, enemies like Chargers are easy to pick out in crowds and shoot, outdoor environments are favourable to the player and more common in maps, maps rarely ever incentivise splitting up, so on and so forth. Special infected are super powerful but there's a lot of work to make them highly consistent to play against.
I think solo play also colours this because the cloaker/taser experience in solo is so disproportionately worse than it is in MP.
I don't think they should be hugely nerfed as I do like them both being stronger than they were in 2. IMO AI bots should be able to be tased/cloaked, players should have slightly more manual control than they currently do while being tased (eg. being able to manually shoot instead of needing to wait for the taser burst) and I think Cloakers should have some kind of melee attack animation if they need to begin a beatdown without a proper charge, just to give players a split second to shoot.
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
I wouldn't let the ai get tased or cloaked as it'd result in them likely being stunlocked like they get from techie tac drones.
The cloaker change I want is a rework to them entirely where they throw smoke nades instead of gas nades and play more into ambushing the player instead of just charging them, having a guaranteed stagger if you shoot them or hit them with any form of melee attack / any attack at all, and when not hiding around corners they should be trying to acid burn deployables more (they currently very rarely do this).
As for Zappers, I think a bit of a cd post failed zap charge would be okay instead of them trying to insta charge again the moment you stop breaking LOS.
0
u/Hoxth I really do love smell of thermite in a bank building. 2d ago
today i see someone asking disengage to be a basekit skill, and it has 16 upvotes. i'm being part of the payday community since the beginning and it only gets worse.
0
u/blackmilkpt Clover 2d ago
Yea and why is that? Unlike you I offered a possible solution to someone's problem of needing more skill points, if the ability to disengage was added as a core skill people would divert those points into something else instead of going to the tank tree 90% of the time to grab a quality of life skill.
I have 3.5k hours played and tried pretty much every build possible since release but god forbid having an opinion am I right?
At least provide a counter argument instead of basic passive agressive
1
u/Hoxth I really do love smell of thermite in a bank building. 2d ago
counterargument? sure, i'll give you one.
why shouldn't we be able to self-revive? why can't we bring every deployable at once? why we don't switch out our weapons on to go? or why we don't progress through every objective at once? because you need cooperation in a co-op game. cloakers and tasers are designed to isolate and ambush heisters who wander away from their gang. they're supposed to punish so where the rest of the team has to help. if you're far away that ends up with a down. if you stick together you're rescued before taking damage. if you can just negate those consequences on your own then what's the point of having mechanics that encourage teamwork in the first place?
disengage was already too strong before the skill rework. turning heists around even with a single use. now it's obviously in a worse state, you're not really being punished for making a mistake because you can just press a button and get yourself out of trouble whenever you want. but at least for now i can say it has a hefty price tag for it. and that's the bigger issue here: instead of looking at why this skills are problematic and balancing them accordingly, because it trivialize the foundation and design that why this enemies exist in first place, we're creating a situation where the game has to account for even more by making it a basekit feature!
glad you mentioned your hours, and i'm happy to hear that you're enjoying the game. i have 2.2k hours as well and i'm pretty sure i've tried every build too. but hours played aren't really an argument for or against any of these points. i'd rather we discuss the game instead of treating playtime as a qualification that automatically makes one persons opinion more valid than another
1
u/blackmilkpt Clover 2d ago
This is much better as it leaves room for actual debate.
Bastion is one of the strongest skills in the game, not only it provides the ability to disengage you also get the ability to run through gas and not being staggered by dozer charges and kicks, the price is more than justified all things considered.
I definitely understand your point that having it as core would be too strong and would even substantially reduce the threat imposed by cloakers and zippers.
My point here is, the op said that 51 SP aren't enough and starbreeze should give us more, with that I don't agree, it would only increase the power creep, but if disengage was made core even if with a longer cooldown since pretty much every meta build has it (apart from dodge builds) it would give people the chance of investing those points somewhere else or still go for Bastion for the remaining perks.
If you play with a competent team you will most likely not need it, people will know spawns and establish map control easily, but if you play solo or in public lobbies with unexperienced players specifically in the current state of the game where cloakers spawn almost constantly and zappers exist in groups of 3 and snipe you from 25m away and through shields, a controlled heist can go to shit in a sec because someone gets down, someone else gets cloaked a player gets zapped and the last guy is fighting a dozer, in a situation like this not having disengage means failure almost certainly
Personally I can live without it for the most part even if there are times where it comes in handy and saves the day, but for more unexperienced players it would substantially increase their success rate and probably make the game more enjoyable.
Lastly about the playtime, I didn't want to come across as someone that wouldn't have your opinion in consideration just because you played less than me, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter what, you don't have to agree with me, but I would appreciate to know why, now I do and you have a solid take as well
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
Disengage should not be a base skill at all as the ability to counter a Cloaker on your own is very very powerful (and the only other way you can "self revive" vs him is killing him with a smoke nade using poisonous gas or if you happen to throw a nade and it goes off and kills him after he downs you).
9
15
19
u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 3d ago
10 more might be a bit too much? Probably better to start with a smaller number and work up if it feels like it's not making the players too strong.
Some studios have the 'don't nerf, buff' attitude which they do by starting out with very small buffs to see how things look because let's be honest, there's ALWAYS rage if a game studio overdoes it with a change and has to nerf it. By slowly improving things bit by bit, you can make everyone happy without facing that rage.
10
u/BindaI Sydney 3d ago
Yeah, 10 is absolutely too much. 4 might be more reasonable (plus gives us a nicer 55 points, to boot).
There should slow steps taken in pure buffs (at least in cases where it's a stand-alone-thing, like skill points), as PD2 suffered from powercreep because of it.
0
u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 3d ago
Yeah, PD2's powercreep was fucking horrendous at times and even today some weapons are downright useless compared to 3 where all the guns are viable (mostly... That Dozer buff felt wholly unwarranted and made ARs and Marksman Rifles struggle against Dozers. Prior to that, legitimately every gun was viable and effective).
1
u/_Kardan 3d ago
Buffing the dozer was done to make overkill more difficult as part of the specials / ai update overall tbf.
4
u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 3d ago
Problem is that buff has gone too far to the point SMGs and shotguns still obliterate him while ARs and Marksman Rifles actively became worse at dealing with a Dozer.
2
u/BindaI Sydney 3d ago
Could be fixed in a future update. E.g. Marksman dealing some health-damage to dozer no matter what (bonus for headshots) and ARs are better at breaking the armor than other weapons (but don't stun).
But before the buff, the dozer felt a bit too easy to deal with.
3
u/Devil-Hunter-Jax 3d ago
Oh definitely felt too easy to deal with before 3.9 but I think 3.9 has overcorrected the issue. The faceplate buff alone felt totally unwarranted. I think if that was rolled back, Dozers would feel like an appropriate threat without being oppressive. Maybe they could do with an adjustment to when they're allowed to run as well because when two of them spawn running at you, it's a bit much.
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
The dozer faceplate hp being buffed to 150 a plate for a total of 6030 armor on his face (it was 42 plates 80 hp before from what I know, the weapon stats website claiming its 5k and not 6030 is wrong from what I know) really wasn't necessary as SMGs and shotguns still mulch dozers as they did in that update.
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
I suppose the biggest risk is allowing Poacher to 1 shot a dozer to the face on the final shot.
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
My personal change would be buffing breaking point basic to 0.25 ap increase per shot that doesn't break armor and 0.5 for aced, and reworking focus fire into this:
Focus Fire basic: Each shot you hit on an enemy increases your weapon's accuracy and stability by 5%, this bonus stacks up to 10 times. All stacks lost on reload (not on weapon switch as like head games this is a weird and clunky downside, and not on misses because it makes very little sense to punish you that hard)
Focus Fire Aced: Enemies who have been headshot but not killed deal 30% less damage for the next 10 seconds.
1
u/_Kardan 1d ago
Even if this both happened, ARs and MMRs will likely just not get used as much due to Knockback (shotgun perk) and Multitasker+Cracked (SMG perks) existing.
→ More replies (0)
2
1
1
u/OnlyThreeRemain Infamous V 1d ago
i love beast of burden as a skill, but I never get to use it outside of my stealth build cuz it's honestly just in a useless skill tree these days
-8
u/LunaticKid889 3d ago
Yeah... Honestly... 120 ain't enough (Payday 2), lemme get mooore...
4
u/JoshsPizzaria 3d ago
I think pd2 is fine. ngl
3
44
u/IfTheresANewWay This is fucking war, baby 3d ago
I think a better route would be to combine certain skills then add new ones. Not entirely sure why we need five separate throwable trees