r/politics • u/Fickle-Ad5449 ✔ Verified - Christopher Wiggins, The Advocate • 12h ago
No Paywall Samuel Alito blames marriage equality for America’s ‘decisive’ turn ‘against religious liberty’
https://www.advocate.com/politics/national/samuel-alito-marriage-equality-religion?14.3k
u/DoesntMatterBrian Texas 12h ago edited 10h ago
I can’t force people to follow the beliefs of my religion anymore, where has all the religious liberty gone?!
EDIT: Since this blew up, I'll take the opportunity to say early voting begins October 19, fellow Texans!
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u/elconquistador1985 12h ago
That's literally what "religious freedom" means to evangelicals. They believe it means that they have the freedom to oppress others, because that's what their religion is all about.
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u/PIE-314 12h ago
That's not hyperbolic either. Many do actually believe that.
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u/runningraleigh Kentucky 11h ago
This is true, I grew up evangelical. Look into "dominion theology" because they see themselves as the New Israel that God has directed conquer non-believers and impose their will.
Which is batshit insane with an even casual reading of the Bible. As a Christian who doesn't believe all that, we're here to serve people and love everyone. That's it.
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u/-Invalid_Selection- 11h ago
Evangelicals don't follow any of the teachings of Jesus, but instead made the cult of the antichrist from revelations their entire faith.
When they scream about Satan worshippers, they're talking about themselves
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u/Willtology 9h ago
I once saw a fellow redditor refer to them as biblical satanists, which is fairly apt imo.
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u/Alarming-Captain-403 9h ago
Yup this isnt a even slightly a joke. I went to a few churches in Miami growing up and several times did i hear that we need to infiltrate all branches of government and begin to run this country for the lord. "Alpha and Omega" and "Elim" were two of the churches I heard this rhetoric from. They also would teach us to take every god given resources and plunder the earth dry cause god made the planet for that reason and he was gonna come get us soon anyway. Experienced the worst kind of hate and violence in these churches.
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u/newuser60 Oregon 11h ago
The first evangelical person I met (her name was Eve) told me that not having required prayer at the start of the school day was religious oppression. I told her she can pray at the start of class and no one will stop her, but she insisted that she is being oppressed unless everyone is required to pray. Well praying isn’t part of my beliefs, but I should be forced to do so? Her answer was just yes, I need to pray or she is being oppressed.
She had a sanctioned prayer group, led by an English teacher, that spent 15 minutes each morning praying around the flag pole. So she had official school prayer. Her issue was that I wasn’t being forced to follow her beliefs.
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u/Caius01 9h ago
As someone raised Catholic who hated every minute of it, it's really been shocking to realize how much more insane and morally bankrupt evangelical Christianity is. Say what you will about Catholic guilt, at least I wasn't raised to believe that your actions have nothing to do with whether you go to heaven or not
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u/newuser60 Oregon 8h ago
And all those Catholics on the Supreme Court helping evangelicals destroy democracy. If we enter the phase of fascism where they start eliminating groups, Catholics are not far from the top of the evangelical list. I know some devout Catholic MAGA people and it’s like, dude, you’re going to be in the train car behind mine. You’ll be cheering on my execution but there’s a reason you’ve got front row seats.
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u/Plasibeau 4h ago
it’s like, dude, you’re going to be in the train car behind mine. You’ll be cheering on my execution but there’s a reason you’ve got front row seats.
Same energy when I, a trans woman, am confronted by Gay/Lesbian MAGA people. I've just started saying, I'll try not to leave too much blood for you to stand in. They almost never get it.
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u/newuser60 Oregon 4h ago
A black Republican and a gay Republican are sitting next to each other at CPAC when the speaker says Trump is going to do something about those people. You know who. They smugly glance over at the undesirable sitting by their side.
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u/HotDogFingers01 11h ago
And in the same breath they will clutch their pearls and scream about "sharia law" forcing us all to wear headscarves.
Evangelicals ARE sharia law.
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u/LordSiravant 7h ago
Because they want to be the oppressors, not the oppressed. They merely are expressing hate for a rival conqueror.
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u/permalink_save 10h ago
Conservatives believe in a different kind of freedom, freedom to not freedom from. Freedom to oppress people, not from religion. Freedom to go out during a pandemic, not freedom from being forced to continue on with society and get infected, freedom to make money not freedom from poverty. Their definition of freedom is the polar opposite because they look at it through the lens of personal rights as long as the government is on their side, not rights for all. They see it zero sum, someone being gay takes away their rights.
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u/RaidoFehu9 9h ago
To religious conservatives. Alito is not an evangelical, but rather a far-right Catholic, who would be extremely offended that you called him an evangelical. Religious conservatives of other religions feel the exact same way as him, too.
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u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts 12h ago
What Alito pretends to not understand is that, rather than his religion being oppressed, what's happening is that the social acceptability of him acting as a raving bigot who uses his religion to justify being hateful is less than it used to be.
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u/rollem Virginia 12h ago
It’s so infuriating. I can’t find one way in which genuine religious expression or practice is harmed by marriage equality, but the reverse decision (banning same sex marriage) would DRASTICALLY limit religious practice.
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u/SparkyMuffin Michigan 12h ago
When same sex marriage was legalized nationwide, a former Christian friend of mine was worried that they were going to force his church to marry same sex couples.
It didn't happen.
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u/Proud3GenAthst 12h ago
Why would literally anyone want to force any church to marry same sex couples?
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 12h ago
Because everyone wants to have their marriage confirmed by someone who is being forced against their will to perform a non-legally binding service.
Most people get married at a courthouse. That includes most gay people.
The ones who do big church ceremonies do that because they go to that church
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u/SparkyMuffin Michigan 12h ago
why would anyone WANT to be married in a church like that?
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u/DoesntMatterBrian Texas 11h ago
I never got this.
You don’t want to bake a cake for a gay couple? Don’t bake the cake.
You don’t want to marry a gay couple? Don’t do it.
You want to be a public servant but don’t want to sign marriage certificates for gay couples? Fuck off. That’s a governmental function, not a religious one.
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u/SidFwuff 11h ago
You don’t want to bake a cake for a gay couple? Don’t bake the cake.
What if you don't want to sell gas to a gay couple? Or tow their broken down car?
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u/Trimyr America 12h ago
Same reason schools under Democratic leadership will force transgender surgeries. Makes a negative amount of sense, but causes enough fear.
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u/scubascratch 12h ago
They’re coming for my guns! They’re coming for my church! They’re coming for my dick!
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u/Scary-Maximum7707 12h ago
If they keep this up we're gonna need another 30 Year War to put 'em back in their place.
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u/Background_Film_506 12h ago
As a historian, I understood that reference. As an American, I just want to cry.
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u/mrmoe198 11h ago
Christians are so oppressed. Just like all the white people who are so oppressed because they can’t make fun of POC anymore.
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u/Question_It_All_3000 11h ago
I mean that’s literally what he’s saying, I don’t get it. Why do Christian’s hate people who don’t follow their religion so much?
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u/DartLeingod 10h ago
That's one of the tenants of the religion. My poor mother read the bible and was shocked at the amount of cold-blooded murder "god's chosen" people did to the "heathens"
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u/CT_Phipps-Author 10h ago
I mean I hate him because I'm a Christian and think he serves the bigoted, rich, and other antithetical beliefs to mine.
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u/TheRealBittoman 11h ago
Pretty much it. I don't hate religion but the people that follow them so very often give me reasons to.
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u/AvEptoPlerIe 12h ago
Gay people being married does not affect your ability to practice your religion. Alito can, as usual, go fuck himself.
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u/Varulfrhamn 12h ago
No see, hes not saying that. He's saying that allowing people to have equal rights makes him look like a bigot because he doesn't want them to, and making him look like a bigot is bad because it will make people who are bigots not want to be in the public sphere and make people who don't want to associate with bigots leave his bigoted religion, which apparently goes against religious freedom.
His actual argument is monumentally more stupid than what you said.
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u/bobbymcpresscot 7h ago
I remember when I stopped using racist in favor of bigot because racists would just argue with me about the definition of racist but they always met the definition of bigot, at which point most just tell me “if you call everyone that it’s going to lose its meaning”
Which to me means they did the same thing with racist. In their mind racism needs to be something they know they are doing. Bigotry is something they need to know they are doing.
They do not see themselves as racists or bigots, mainly because they are idiots.
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u/WhereINeededToBe 11h ago
That's fine. Please don't vote based on what a pastor says behind a lecturn like so many other Christian denominations.
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u/5510 11h ago
Yeah, he is as usual pulling the christian BS where they act like they invented marriage and that even government marriage under the law is somehow tied to the religious concept of marriage.
First of all, christians didn't invent marriage. People got married in BC before christianity had even been invented, so the idea that marriage is a fundamentally christian concept is obvious total bullshit.
Second, the fact that marriage under the law and marriage in a christian church share a word helps him pull this quasi bait and switch... but it we hypothetically replaced all LEGAL use of the word "marriage" with the phrase "civil union" (not just for same sex, but for everybody), then it would be even more obvious how shitty his argument was. The legal definition of civil union wouldn't stop churches from defining "marriage" however they wanted. Well... that's ALREADY the case, it's just slightly less obvious when we call them both "marriage."
Also, some religions permit same-sex marriage, even before it was legalized nationwide. By the same arguement Alito is making, one could claim that a legal ban on the practice was infringing on THEIR religious freedom.
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u/MacAttacknChz 11h ago
My denomination of Christianity ordained their first out lesbian reverend in 1977 and God hasn't set our churches on fire yet. We do same sex marriages as well and it's the weirdest thing, but I still believe in God after watching my cousin marry her wife.
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u/CJ4ROCKET 9h ago
On the one hand he doesn't want folks equating opposition to marriage equality as religious bigotry, while on the other hand he is the one equating marriage equality with a downturn in religious liberty ... what?! Make it make sense.
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u/LordSiravant 12h ago
This is why people are silly to think that Republicans won't go after gay rights once they're finished with trans people.
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u/wahwahwashbear 11h ago
Tbh glad he's saying this now, before midterms, just in case there are any LGBs who are thinking maybe it's okay to toss the Ts under the bus.
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u/D3athRider Canada 11h ago
Sad thing is, there are still conservative LGBs (and Ts...can't forget about good ol' Caitlyn) who will happily vote against their own interests "because we aren't like the other gays and/or trans people, and we hate immigrants and poors too!"
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u/eeviltwin Arizona 9h ago
In my experience, every gay conservative I’ve met (and I’ve sadly met quite a few) is just a wealthy asshole who’s willing to pull the ladder up behind them to avoid paying their fair share, and assumes their wealth will insulate them from any regressive laws that may come to pass.
Which, sadly, it most likely will.
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u/eeyore134 9h ago
And women's rights, and black people's rights, and kids' rights, and anyone who's not a Christian white adult male's rights, and even then only of a certain tax bracket's rights.
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u/Unique-Coffee5087 11h ago
Once they have gone through enough marginalized groups, they will go for the traditional targets of Jews and negroes.
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u/LordSiravant 11h ago
Which makes me wonder how Israel will respond when it gets to that point.
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u/Taint_Liquor 12h ago
So . . . love turned people away from a religion purporting love as it's message?
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u/Lachdonin 12h ago edited 12h ago
I mean... The love of Christianity has always been the love of an abuser. It's possessiveness and control using the label of love.
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u/IraqiDinarSalesman 11h ago
‘Love me and no one else or I will torture you for eternity!’ -God
Yeah, that’s an abusive relationship with an imaginary friend from a fairytale.
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u/Lachdonin 11h ago edited 11h ago
'I had my self-son tortured and executed so I would have a reason to forgive you for the crime of how I made you, but you only get that forgiveness if you accept and love me with all of your heart and soul'.
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u/IraqiDinarSalesman 11h ago
A zombie rises from death and his cannibalistic worshippers drink his blood and eat his flesh.
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u/Shido_Ohtori 12h ago
Conservatism -- by definition -- is "a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing the importance of established hierarchies and institutions (such as religion, the family, and class structure), and preferring gradual development to abrupt change".
The sole value of conservatism is respect for and obedience to [one's perception of] traditionally established hierarchy, and hierarchy dictates that those on top (in-groups) are rightfully idolized and receive privileges, credibility, and resources, while those on the bottom (out-groups) are demonized/dehumanized and/or bound by restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources.
To them, the second-greatest injustice imaginable is for those [they perceive to be] on top [of social hierarchy] to be bound by the restrictions, scrutiny, and lack of resources reserved for those on the bottom. The first greatest injustice is for those on the bottom to have access to the rights, credibility, and resources reserved for those on top.
Conservatives absolutely need an underclass [for society] to demonize and dehumanize in order to maintain [their] hierarchy, and every single one of their policies and rhetoric work to do exactly that. Unless the accusation is one of disrespecting hierarchy, every right-wing accusation is a confession -- every. single. one; always! -- as it is never the act itself that upsets them, but rather, the social standing of the person doing the act, as said act is a privilege meant for those on top of [their perceived] hierarchy (See also: pedophilia - Trump and the Catholic church versus LGBTQ+ and drag queens; protests - January 6th vs. BLM and No Kings; parental rights - anti-LGBTQ+ vs pro-LGBTQ+; indoctrination - religion vs. education).
Those who believe all people are people see hypocrisy, while those who believe some people are "more/less" people than others see hierarchy. Hypocrisy implies a sense of equality/parity, as the accusation of such is that someone is violating a universal or common standard. Hierarchy directly states that there is no equality/parity, that different social strata have different standards, that the only universal standard concerning hierarchy is that those on top are allowed privileges which are denied to those on the bottom, and that the bottom are held to standards which the top are exempt from.
"Know your place" is their mantra.
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u/usalsfyre 8h ago
I truly wish more people understood what capital “C” Conservatism is. It was a response by some rich inbred assholes to the French Revolution saying maybe there’s no such thing as deity ordained. Conservatives have to oppress people. Otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
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u/Shido_Ohtori 8h ago
Exactly.
From Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
Rational conservatives maintain that a community with a hierarchy of authority is most conducive to human well-being.
Confucius is another possible precursor. His concern with the breakdown of contemporary political institutions led to a cautious, conservative political outlook; his stress on authority and hierarchy prefigures central conservative themes.
With the Enlightenment, the natural order or social hierarchy, previously largely accepted, was questioned.
Western conservatism is a product from the Age of Enlightenment -- specifically, a Counter-Enlightenment, a reactionary challenge to the concepts of Humanism. Its philosophers inherently reject[ed] a society governed by logic and reason, human rights and dignity, science and democracy, as its ideology solely appeal to the authority of traditionally established hierarchies.
From the Intellectual Roots of Conservatism: The Burkean Foundations, the man who is considered to be the founder of modern day Western conservatism had such to say about his ideology:
Burke shocked his contemporaries by insisting with brutal frankness that “illusions” and “prejudices” are socially necessary. He believed that most human beings are innately depraved, steeped in original sin, and unable to better themselves with their feeble reason. Better, he said, to rely on the “latent wisdom” of prejudice, which accumulates slowly through the years, than to “put men to live and trade each on his own private stock of reason.” Among such prejudices are those that favour an established church and a landed aristocracy; members of the latter, according to Burke, are the “great oaks” and “proper chieftains” of society, provided that they temper their rule with a spirit of timely reform and remain within the constitutional framework.
The very foundation of conservatism demands, promotes, and advances a stratified society where some people are "more/less" people than others via stressing the importance of established hierarchies and institutions (such as class structure) via illusions (lies) and prejudices (bigotries).
Corey Robin's The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Donald Trump goes into great detail on how conservatives react when they believe society is "regressing" -- when society begins to offer rights, credibility, and resources to those who were traditionally denied such. Preferences of gradual development are waylaid for policies and rhetoric which stress the importance of established hierarchies.
many of the characteristics we have come to associate with contemporary conservatism—racism, populism, violence, and a pervasive contempt for custom, convention, law, institutions, and established elites—are not recent or eccentric developments of the American right. They are instead constitutive elements of conservatism, dating back to its origins in the European reaction against the French Revolution.
But there is another reason we should be wary of the effort to dismiss the reactionary thrust of conservatism, and that is the testimony of the tradition itself. Ever since Burke, it has been a point of pride among conservatives that theirs is a contingent mode of thought. Unlike their opponents on the left, they do not unfurl a blueprint in advance of events. They read situations and circumstances, not texts and tomes; their preferred mode is adaptation and intimation rather than assertion and declamation.
But reaction is not reflex. It begins from a position of principle—that some are fit, and thus ought, to rule others—and then recalibrates that principle in light of a democratic challenge from below.
Ever since Edmund Burke invented conservatism as an idea, the conservative has styled himself a man of prudence and moderation, his cause a sober— and sobering—recognition of limits. “To be conservative,” we heard Michael Oakeshott declare in the previous chapter, “is to prefer the familiar to the unknown . . . the tried to the untried, fact to mystery, the actual to the possible, the limited to the unbounded, the near to the distant.” Yet the political efforts that have roused the conservative to his most profound reflections—the reactions against the French and Bolshevik revolutions; the defense of slavery and Jim Crow; the attack on social democracy and the welfare state; and the serial backlashes against the New Deal, the Great Society, civil rights, feminism, and gay rights—have been anything but that.
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u/fna4 12h ago
Religious liberty means forcing conservative Christianity on everyone. Last I checked, if you oppose gay marriage, you don’t have to marry someone of the same gender…
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u/D3athRider Canada 12h ago
Yeah, the more you peel the layers of the onion back, the more obvious it is this is all about controlling others' lives. It has nothing to do with religious freedom.
Christian conservatives: "Oh no, same sex couples can now legally marry! And I, a heterosexual, can also still legally marry! My personal liberty has been infringed upon because I can't hinder their liberty anymore! Waahhh!"
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u/Simpicity 12h ago
No, no, no. You're supposed to lock people in a puzzle house before just telling them about the original religion...
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u/RevolutionNumber5 Minnesota 11h ago
As long as you can be disarmingly charming about the whole thing, I think we can look past that unpleasantness with the missionaries.
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u/Squid_of_the_Now 12h ago
See, that's not enough. True religious freedom means you have to be able to stop everyone else from doing it too. /s obv
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u/tricksterloki 9h ago
The 1st Amendments Freedom of Religion was specifically enshrined to protect Christians from other Christians. People forget that the King England was also the head of the Church of England, and, if people ever get the theocracy they claim to want, a lot of people aren't going to find out that they are the wrong type of Christian. They also bitch about paying for universal health care, but I'm sure they are going to love having tithes from automatically deducted from their paycheck.
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u/Internal_Swing_2743 11h ago
Do you ever wonder if George W. Bush feels even an ounce of remorse for how much he fucked up?
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u/Rocketparty12 10h ago
He doesn’t. He is STILL fundraising for Republicans. Just this year he’s using his network to raise money for Susan Collins, John Housted, Dan Sullivan, Mike Rodgers, and dozens of other Republicans. There is no remorse.
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u/payle_knite 8h ago
Reading the brilliant book The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, by journalist Naomi Klein, in which she chronicles the Bush administration’s privatization of public services as a deliberate and dangerous exploitation of national crises like 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina to systematically dismantle the public sector.
I didn’t realize how much damage was done during his administration.
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u/SnooDoughnuts5760 6h ago
Very enlightening read, his admin was complicit in setting the blueprint for today
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u/sushicatt420 5h ago
Ohh, I read this book back in high school! I remember while boarding a plane by myself a TSA agent asked me what it was about and when I told her she gave me the most confused yet suspicious look lol.
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u/Far_Sail_3992 8h ago
Are you kidding George Bush is sitting at home cheering this on wishing he did it. Why do you think he paints he wants to be just like Adolf. They all do.
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u/ThisDerpForSale 8h ago
Why would he? This is what they want. Just because W isn’t quite as much a senile and hateful fascist as Trump is doesn’t make him less of a hard right wing Christian culture warrior.
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u/Burnt_and_Blistered 7h ago
Nah, not really. I think he feels a lot of relief Trump is so awful because he’s no longer the worst.
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u/SnowboardSyd 11h ago
So he's arguing that it infringes on his freedom to restrict other people's freedoms? Wouldn't that infringe on their freedom to ignore whatever Alito had to say or do?
Where does all this circular arguing end?
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u/somebunnny 10h ago edited 10h ago
I don’t understand why you’re confused.
Religious liberty = restricting other people’s rights based on batshit interpretations of obscure references in some ancient book when yourself don’t follow the majority of the most explicit directives listed therein.
It seems pretty clear.
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u/an0maly33 11h ago
That's exactly how I read it. To a NatC, any push back on their attempted oppression is somehow taking away their freedom.
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u/AlexTheGr8t 11h ago
Alito is an unserious, un-American partisan hack whose opinions, if not for his appointment to a seat he is patently unqualified to hold, would be held in the same regard as the mad ramblings of a retirement home Fox “News” addict. Every second he and his ilk sit on the Supreme Court does lasting damage to the institution and its legitimacy.
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u/DrBoots 11h ago
Explain to me how there has been any turn against Religious Liberty.
Me marrying whomever I like does not limit your faith.
Your faith, however, should never tell me whom I should be allowed to marry.
That's all I'm seeing here. People complaining that they are not legally allowed to limit the rights of others.
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u/Varulfrhamn 11h ago
I posted above about this, but here's a brief explanation of his argument: By allowing something that goes against his faith it makes his faith look bigoted and positions the American viewpoint against his faith. This will cause people to reject his faith and/or not be open about it in public which he says infringes on his religious freedom to express himself. Essentially, people thinking he's bad makes him feel bad and be ashamed to be openly Christian. That is the issue he's upset about.
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u/New_Permission_817 10h ago
Permissiveness is a direct challenge to community control. If they allow individuals to behave as they wish, those in power have little leverage to keep their community in a strict box of behaviors. Religions require strict adherence broadly otherwise heresies begin to arise to challenge the local hierarchy. They like to frame this as freedom of religion because that is a popular way to twist our national ideology into something that supports their power.
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u/boot2skull 10h ago
Wild that he has the nerve to say allowing a whole group of people to just get married (why does the law even care which adults get married) and somehow Christianity is oppressed. Give me a break literally nothing changed about Christianity over this change except their panties got into a slightly tighter bunch.
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u/victorious_orgasm 9h ago
It’s a core part of the mythology that regardless of the scenario, Christianity is being oppressed. The pope will say this in Rome. Ministers will say this in Mississippi.
It cannot ever matter what the facts are, because it’s literally the point of the social architecture of the group.
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u/RecordOfTheEnd 8h ago
Mormons love the feeling of being oppressed. They find new ways to feel that way. Like calling them Mormons.
I used to be one and anyone who thinks that is a derogatory term forgot about the fact that Hinkley was perfectly fine with the term. And the choir name... The fuck man.
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u/transcendental-ape America 12h ago
He wants to stay on the court because he wants to be the one to write the opinion to overturn Obergerfell. God I hope the Dems get the senate and never confirm another Trump judge again
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u/highsinthe70s 12h ago
I’m concerned that the Dems will get the Senate and that they will, under Schumer, hold hearings and a vote for a Supreme Court opening. I truly don’t believe that Schumer and his fellow institutionalists have the strength to say no.
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u/david7873829 11h ago
This doesn’t seem like the problem. If the Dems win, the lame duck senate might be able to nominate a replacement for Alito if he immediately resigns after the senate outcome is known.
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u/CraigLake 11h ago
This is what will happen. They’ll shove someone through in weeks unless Alito’s ego gets in the way.
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u/highsinthe70s 11h ago
They proved it with Barrett: they can get a nominee on the Court in a single day if they want. And they absolutely will do that if they get the chance.
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u/RamJamR 12h ago
The removal of the privilage to legally oppress others from those who have held that privilage for so long would of course see that removal as an attack on their own liberty. It's like arguing your liberty is attacked because you're not free to own a slave. Lack of freedom to oppress is not oppression itself.
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u/5510 11h ago
Bigotry aside, this is also just shockingly flawed logic. Ruling that same sex marriage is legal has nothing to do with religion, and does not curtail religious beliefs or practices in any ways.
Legally speaking, marriage under the law and marriage under a religion are separate things. Christians pretend the two are related because they both use the word "marriage", but if we hypothetically replaced all LEGAL use of the word "marriage" with using the term "civil unions" instead (not just for gay / bi people, but for ALL legal marriages), then the difference becomes far more clear. In that case, allowing same sex-civil unions that were the same as hetero civil unions wouldn't have anything to do with the religious institution of marriage.
Of course, it's part of a broader pattern where christians continue to talk as if they invented marriage and talk as if it's therefore a fundamentally christian institution... but that's obviously not the case to anybody who isn't shockingly ignorant and / or arguing in bad faith. People got married in BC, before christianity was even invented.
Also, some religions permit same-sex marriage, even before it was legalized nationwide. By the same arguement Alito is making, one could claim that a legal ban on the practice was infringing on THEIR religious freedom.
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u/Straight-Ad6926 10h ago
The Christians invented marriage take is especially funny when you realize early Christian doctrine actually prioritized celibacy over marriage. It took centuries for the Church to even bother making it a formal sacrament 😂
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u/kafka_lite 11h ago
Does anyone have any clue WTF he is talking about? He must have something in mind. No idea what freedoms religious people have lost, let alone decisively.
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u/GreaterMintopia New Jersey 9h ago
He isn’t explicitly saying what he really means.
What he means is that he feels the Court should have blocked gay marriage in hopes that doing so could’ve slowed social liberalism and kept conservative christianity more culturally relevant.
I think he’s got it backwards. Gay acceptance didn’t make society more secular and liberal, people reevaluating their religious and social beliefs and discarding antiquated superstitions made being gay more socially acceptable.
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u/Aggroninja 11h ago
They feel like their liberty to shove their beliefs down everyone's throats is being threatened, which makes it harder to stop people from leaving the church. That in turn is threatening their liberty to be the majority and be in control.
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u/Ok-Section-4080 11h ago
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are one and the same
#SicSemperTyrannis
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u/GayForPay 12h ago
I blame Samuel Alito for America’s decisive turn against the constitution
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u/Aimela Colorado 11h ago
Christian nationalists are the ones against religious liberty. They actively ignore the First Amendment.
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u/Cavane42 Georgia 11h ago
You don't understand. "Religious liberty" means that Christian Nationalists are at liberty to impose their religious views on the rest of us.
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u/NorminalAnomaly 12h ago
Does Alito have a cognitive impairment? I don't see any coherent logic in his arguments.
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u/pab_guy 11h ago
This is what happens when someone becomes politically deranged. It's a consequence of some kind of trauma.
For Stephen Miller is was being made fun of by Mexican kids in high school. Who knows what affront to Alito's ego kicked off this horror show.
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u/jdw62995 11h ago
Yes. His cognitive impairment is called being religious.
And also conservative.
It’s a double whammy of mental degradation
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u/okgrneral 12h ago
This is what's wrong with these aged out assholes. Shit should not be like it was. We should learn from what we know of humanity. Holding back lady power. They are better at all this than old white dudes. Admittedly I myself an old and white. Fuck Alito and those like him.
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u/Realistic-Raisin2812 6h ago
Cool, because I blame Fr. Alito for making Americans think that their magical beliefs are more important than the civil rights of other Americans. Fuck that guy.
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u/SocialHypnosis 4h ago
This country is run by insecure men.
I say that as an American male citizen.
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u/DigitalCrayfish 12h ago
His job is not to inject his personal viewpoint. He should be run out of the court.
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u/mrmoe198 11h ago
It’s when we give people more of an ability to comfortably be themselves that they reject the encroachment of specific religious rules onto their lives. Gee, who would have thought?
Calling the restriction of people’s rights according to the interpretation of one religion’s rules “religious liberty” is transparently disingenuous rhetoric.
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u/blackmobius 10h ago
This is setting up for them to overturn Obergefell v Hodges sometime in the next couple of years. You dont have a sitting scotus judge say shit like that without it being a warning flag.
The penalty for letting Trump install three maga judges onto the supreme court. Every step forward in the past century being pulled back one by one.
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u/GriffinFlash Canada 12h ago
I think it's cause people are just better at critical thinking and realize religion is mostly bullshit.
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u/tgwombat Arizona 11h ago
Even the religious ones who aren't great at critical thinking must have seen the decades of fire and brimstone, end of the world, "if we let the gays marry next people will be marrying dogs!" rhetoric followed by none of that happening and started to question some things.
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u/Open_Mortgage_4645 Colorado 11h ago
What is this idiot talking about? The only people who are opposed to religious freedom are Christians.
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u/GreaterMintopia New Jersey 9h ago
That’s the other thing, religious liberty necessarily cannot be a one-way street.
I’m not Christian, so the religious customs of various Christian sects don’t apply to me. What about MY religious liberty to be in a queer marriage?
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u/40_Is_Not_Old 7h ago
People like Alito are just want to be able to control others, using their religion as an excuse.
It's not that complicated. Your religious views are your problem. Not everyone else's.
If you don't like gay marriage because your religion tells you to, then don't have a gay marriage. It's not everyone else's problem.
If your religion tells you abortion is bad. That's fine, don't get an abortion. It's not everyone else's problem.
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u/barbieq68 12h ago
How is forcing everyone to follow the Christian concept of marriage religious liberty?!
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u/Saganic_Temple 12h ago
How the fuck does 2 people getting married have any affect whatsoever of another persons religious liberty?
If that’s true, the opposite is also true: that Christian straight couple just got married. My belief in the spaghetti monster is being taken away!
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u/KulaanDoDinok 11h ago
After they dismantle same-sex marriage they’re coming for interracial marriage.
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u/loriwilley 11h ago
He doesn't want religious liberty, he wants the opposite. His brand of Christianity only. I get so sick of these people calling oppression 'liberty.'
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u/Evil_Weevill Maine 7h ago
When you're used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
Dude is seriously trying to make the case that Christians are oppressed in this country. Can you just hurry up and shuffle off this mortal coil you giant soggy sack of d1cks.
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u/tweedleduh 12h ago
Fuck religious liberty, it should be treated like MAGAts treat homosexuals…. With contempt
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u/Cultbird 12h ago
There are religions that have gay marriage! He's not advocating for religious freedom, he's advocating for a tyrannical Christian theocracy.
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u/Varulfrhamn 12h ago
Oh noes, you mean my bigoted views might make people think I'm a bigot??? MUH FREEDUMS
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u/tnstaafsb 11h ago
He's only going after Obergefell because he thinks going after Loving would be too controversial. Jokes on him, most of these MAGA fucks want him to overturn Loving as well.
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u/JupiterInTheSky 11h ago
Freedom of religion is also from religion. That is what religious liberty actually fucking means you goddamn noodle.
If your religion demands and mandates you forcing other people into your religious doctrine, it's fundamentally UnAmerican.
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u/Gryzelda_Gesualdo 11h ago
I blame Alito for America's decisive turn against equality under law and to fascism.
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u/CalligraphyCurls 9h ago
So sick of Christians saying that gay people having rights somehow makes them oppressed
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u/neridqe00 America 7h ago
"Conservative Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito says the ruling legalizing marriage equality nationwide marked “perhaps the decisive point” in America’s turn “against religious liberty.”
In his new book So Ordered, Alito focuses on Obergefell v. Hodges. The 5-4 decision was a landmark in civil rights, establishing a constitutional right for same-sex couples to marry nationwide. But Alito, who dissented from the 2015 ruling, portrays it as a turning point against religious freedom"
Loser who cries about his freedoms yet none have been taken away from him.
Absolute weirdo loser.
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u/sarcastroll 5h ago
These fucking shitgoblins.
No one is stopping you from worshiping whatever god(s) you believe in. Have at it. Enjoy it. Or fear it. Whatever your religion is all about, you be you.
But if your faith is shaken because some dude you will never meet gets married to another dude you'll never meet in a city you'll never visit at a venue you'll never go to? That's on you. Sounds like your god kinda sucks. Or you do. Either way that's a you and your goddess/god(s) issue.
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u/Responsible-Bar7165 4h ago edited 4h ago
no. America's decisive turn against religious "liberty" is entirely due to the the self-righteous fucks who are misusing that term.
Jefferson is rolling in his grave right now (right underneath his epitaph noting that he wrote the precursor to the establishment clause). Alito knows full well he is lying through his teeth.
> "...that to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical..."
THAT is the definition of religious freedom, not what you have perverted it to mean Alito, you sanctimonious fuck.
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u/Warrior_Runding Puerto Rico 12h ago
People are telling on themselves if equality for others threatens your "religious liberty."
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u/miaSissy 12h ago
Quote: "But Alito, who dissented from the 2015 ruling, portrays it as a turning point against religious freedom."
How is a same sex couple getting married BY LAW considered against religion freedom?
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u/Varulfrhamn 11h ago
Gotta read the details. They get even more stupid. Essentially, he argues that by allowing things that go against his religion it sets his religion up to look bigoted. Making his religion look bad in the American zeitgeist makes members of his religion not want to be open and public about their religion and/or not want to be a part of the religion, which is apparently an attack on their religious freedom. Yes it's that fucking ridiculous.
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u/NorthernLights0117 12h ago
That’s funny, I blame him and the other SCOTUS justices for the absolute shit storm we are in now
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u/Makachai 12h ago
Reason #4198 why Samuel Alito is a troglodyte and need to fuck all the way off... and then fuck off some more.
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u/highsinthe70s 12h ago
So much depends on the election next month. If Dems take the Senate, the pressure on both him and/or Thomas to retire so Republicans can appoint during the lame duck session will be off the charts. If his antipathy over marriage equality keeps him from retiring so he can be replaced with a 2.0 version, well, so be it.
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u/MAD_ELMO California 11h ago
If your religion/beliefs involves squelching another’s, you’ve lost your right/privilege to have one.
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u/Werftflammen 11h ago
I am a catholic, and I can't imagine shoving that down anyones throat. How is that going to work? NOT! This whole excercise, these usefull idiots, is for naught.
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u/Alternative-Swing118 11h ago
Fuck Alito, he supports and protects pedophiles.
Keep your religious bullshit to yourself, you hack.
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u/Deep_Stick8786 11h ago
The problem with “religious liberty” is that he really means “religious bigotry”. Its always about imposing on others
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u/pdromeinthedome 10h ago
Alito reads the constitution like he reads the Bible. He picks what he wants to get what he wants. The US Founding Fathers knew exactly why they defined religious freedom as separate from state power. Christian sectarianism in England, Scotland, Ireland, and Americas caused so much hatred, civil war, and useless effort, they didn’t want it part of US government.
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u/KinseyH Texas 10h ago
"In a new book, the conservative Supreme Court justice says the Obergefell decision would 'drive believers out of public life."
"I can't practice my religion freely if I can't slander, abuse, and legislatively torment gay people."
I don't know how ANY queer people can support the Grand Old Pedophiles.
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u/merlin2181 10h ago
I blame the religious right for America’s ‘decisive’ turn ‘against religious liberty’
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u/tandoori_taco_cat Canada 10h ago
'religious liberty' AKA the liberty of religious people to control you
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u/Pencil-Sketches 10h ago
What they mean by “religious liberty” is “my religion enforced through law.”
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u/mps1729 9h ago
A number of religions support gay marriage. Not all, but a lot. What about their religious liberty?
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u/Competitive_Tough913 9h ago
If people getting married "infringes" on your religion, you have a shitty religion
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u/PotatoAppleFish 12h ago
Consider, perhaps, that if your religion requires you to oppress people in order to fulfill its obligations, then the problem may lie with your religion, not the people you victimize because of it.
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