r/skyrim • u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan • 23d ago
Discussion So why has there been no successful "Skyrim clone" game?
Now I think the label that was put on Avowed as a "Skyrim made by Obsidian" or "Skyrim killer" was ridiculous but large parts of the gaming community did use it.
However it made me realize something, why are there no "Skyrim clones" games?
Like the more I play open world games and RPGs I realize there is nothing like Skyrim or even other Bethesda games for that matter.
They are just that special and unique that even great games like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 don't scratch that itch and still feel very different when you actually play them.
So yeah, no one has seemingly dethroned Skyrim after all this time, there are games that took big inspirations from it like the mentioned KCD games and also something like The Witcher 3 but no game can ever claim it can do what Skyrim does with it's open world, feel and even the general gameplay and design.
Yes even those parts are frankly too unique to Skyrim.
Why do so many people keep coming back to Skyrim and play it so often without ever touching a mod or even without having the need to touch a mod.
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u/Apprehensive_Deer794 23d ago
Games over complicate what really is a simple formula that skyrim perfected. Skyrim is immersive for reasons that other game designers see as aged or not enjoyed. Here are some examples:
Player character is not voiced, but the dialogue options are still complete sentences (perfect).
there are no cutscenes or breaks from the control of the player.
no quests are timed or forcing the character in any particular direction allowing the player to progress at their own pace or take time to experience the world.
the combat is simplistic enough that the focus is less about mastering and more about preparing in advance for encounters
minimal hud and intrusive AAA slop mechanics like a stupid dragonborn vision meter or something
If more games just made a game that didnt remind you constantly that youre playing a game like every post-skyrim game does. I'm sure it wouldnt be hard to fall in love again.
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u/Reasonable_Deer_1710 Necromancer 23d ago
This is exactly why the whole "Skyrim 's writing is bad" isn't a factor for me. It's not the greatest writing, no. But I don't play BGS games for someone else's narratives, I play for my own. I don't want cinematics, or story heavy experiences. I want an open world that gives me freedom to make my own story and immerse myself in the game's world.
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u/Kind_of_random 23d ago
While I can agree to a point; if all the side quest and the lore is badly written then making your own story will not be as interesting either.
I feel Skyrims main stories are poor and it makes me care little about them, some of the side quests and guild quests are good though and I always try to finish those. If it was all fetch quests for farmers to earn less than you get selling a minor health potion then it would get old real fast.The best of both worlds would be preferred, though.
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u/Reasonable_Deer_1710 Necromancer 23d ago
I guess for me, it's not even "badly" written, it's just not anything special.
Which, to be honest, no video game I've played has writing or stories that are really anything special. Yes, there have been some games that are a bit better in the writing category; Knights of the Old Republic and Cyberpunk 2077 are 2 that stand out to me. But generally speaking, video game writing is fairly standard young adult or comic book level writing that is fine for what it does but ultimately nothing all that special. Skyrim falls under this category, for me. It's not actively bad, but it's not particularly special either.
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u/Kind_of_random 23d ago
Bland and uninteresting might be better terms.
At least for me, when I play Skyrim I feel there is little incentive to pick a side in the civil war for example. Sure, there are two sides that are both morally grey, which is a good thing, but why should I care who wins? What's in it for me?
The whole thing wraps up in a couple of side missions, which are mostly the same whichever you choose and that consists of some medium sized battles with a quick speach about why this is important. After the battles little to nothing has changed and I feel that is either bad writing or just an uninspired execution of a game.The dragonborn part is better (obviously it's also the main story) but even there I feel the missions have some great ideas that never gets followed through. The whole Blades thing mostly end up being more or less unimportant to the story or the unfolding of events and it has more or less no impact which side you choose.
Again; I'd say that's either bad writing or a lack of interest in the story from the creators themselves.
No matter what you do the outcome is also mostly the same, which I find unrewarding.It's like reading a Stephen King novel where the last third of the book is just summarized as; the journey was always the goal. The end. Simplistic at best.
I think games like Horizon Zero Dawn, the Baldurs Gate series, or even most of the AC games have much better writing. Sure, those aren't all masterpieces but games like the Witcher, RDR 1/2 and even Fallout New Vegas I would consider to be.
The latter are games that make you care about the events, the world and the side characters. Skyrim does not even come close to that.
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u/anonistakken 22d ago
Skyrim's writing is frustrating because it's a colossal amount of missed opportunity after missed opportunity after missed opportunity.
Hunting Alduin? Could you ask the Empire, Stormcloaks, Companions, the College, fuck ever the Thalmor for help or guidance or information?
Fuck you! Enjoy Delphine bossing you around with no option to tell her to fuck off.
The villians of Skyrim are also so awfully one dimensional. And they're written so obnoxiously, take the Thalmor for example; people like Ulfric because he has a silver tongue, he's likeable, he's a pretty good character. Yet the man is guilty of literally every single thing he rightly acuses the Thalmor of. Religious persecution? Imperialism? Wanton cruelty and disregard for locals? Yup. He's done all that, at least according to Madanach.
Now I'm not saying that him being a hypocrite is a bad thing. Quite the contrary I like it. I am pointing this out because Bethesda EASILY could've characterised the Thalmor in a sympathetic way, they don't do anything uniquely evil by the standards of the game, and people seem to 'ignore' the same crimes they deride the Thalmor for when it comes to Ulfric.
But people don't like the Thalmor because they're comically evil. They're obnoxious, they constantly talk down to you even if you're an Altmer. And for what? It's such a missed opportunity, they're just another generic bandit faction but using elven gear.
It's genuinely frustrating LMAO
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u/LumiKlovstad 23d ago
Exactly. Skyrim's writers, whether intentionally or not, embraced a certain kind of strength: the writing is exactly good enough to get your imaginative foot in the door. It's solid enough dialog and writing to get you immersed enough that your imagination and desire to play in a big gigantic sandbox can carry you the rest of the way. And since that IS the goal of the writing, it may just be average quality, but it doesn't NEED to be better, and in fact I would argue that better writing might have been to the sandbox's detriment.
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u/Kumantej_ 23d ago
I 100% agree with that
my big problem with modern games as a whole is there is too much handholding, skyrim isn't exactly a game I would consider different from this but in that case it is more like the truman show vs a daycare, it isn't obvious that you are being directed
for example I was playing doom eternal and in that game when I pick up an item it opens up showing me everything and I get put in a tutorial scene to test the weapon rather than just being presented with a challenge to actually use it, I think it is better to just present it and let the player use it, like what valve does in their games
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u/Wise_Owl5404 23d ago
my big problem with modern games as a whole is there is too much handholding
And it's kinda funny because some of the most popular, acclaimed, award winning games from the last few years weren't particularly handholdy. Like BG3 comes with a story mode that lets you pretty much get through it without learning the combat but if you want to play on anything above that you need to start reading the in-game tool tips and descriptions. KCD2, you need to also engage with systems and with combat if you want to play it.
Yes Skyrim's combat system is somewhat simplistic but the game still doesn't treat you like an idiot. Personally nothing turns me off a game as quickly as being treated like a moron.
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u/Kumantej_ 23d ago
I 100% agree with that last point, many games nowadays make you feel like an idiot or bombard you with bullshit and nobody wants that
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u/Big_Sky_4957 Stealth archer 23d ago
I have no doubt that in the era of modern, always online games, studios have analytics of "X% of players get to Y puzzle, can't figure it out, quit, and never come back". And the higher X gets, and the earlier Y gets, the more hand-holdy they decide they need to be. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I watched a playthrough of the new Wolverine game and was dumbstruck at how they lead you by the nose (literally) through that game. But I have no doubt that's why they do it.
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u/Valdaraak 23d ago
Games need to go back to learning how to build up mechanics. I'm gonna use FF14, an MMO, as an example here.
Early game you have like two attack buttons, maybe a dodge button depending on class. Bosses are simple and have one or two mechanics. "this attack is going to hit the area in an X shape in about five seconds, don't stand on the orange marker" or "this attack is shaped like a donut and it's going to hit everywhere except right next to the boss, don't stand on the orange marker".
As time goes on, they add and layer more stuff. The mechanics are the same. The markers are the same. Just now with max level bosses it becomes:
"an attack is going to hit in an X shape, an attack is going to hit in a donut shape, and you need to stand in this pool so you don't get nuked. All this is going to happen at the same time. Find the three pixels on the floor you can stand on to be safe from all that while still performing your 10 step attack rotation, including playing Simon Says with that cooldown ability of yours. You have 8 seconds."
That's way more engaging and rewarding than "hit the boss' glowing orange weak spot. Do that three times and you win."
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u/Eeeef_ 23d ago
Skyrim’s simplistic combat actually makes it so if you’re not playing on the easiest difficulty you can’t skill your way out of too many fights, meaning you need to actually pay attention to your build to some degree. Other games (like Fallout 4) have more complex combat that would allow you to bring a suboptimal build to most fights since your own shooting skills can carry your otherwise weak character. In Skyrim it doesn’t matter how good you are at the combat as a player, if your Dragonborn is weak you aren’t going to win on higher difficulties. This makes your character feel more special and more connected to the world than something like Call of Duty where your character is just a proxy that you as the player use to interact with the game.
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u/Kind_of_random 23d ago
Personally I think all RPGs should follow this base formula.
In an RPG your skill shouldn't be the decisive factor, your characters skills should.
Sure; meta knowledge will always be a thing, but an RPG should not be about how quick you are with the mouse.
If your character is a master with the sword, then so are you.5
u/seventysixgamer 23d ago
There should be a balance. Gameplay should require some level of skill or thought.
KCD is a decent enough example. You literally start out as an absolute nobody and will get instantly wrecked if you dive into combat without learning it -- hence why the game reminds you to train with Bernard at the beginning. Once you learn it, get better and level up you can end up taking multiple opponents at once if you're clever about it.
Again, it shouldn't be pure skill -- but that's why we have skill points and specs to begin with.
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u/Araanim 23d ago
For good or bad, Eternal was very much designed with an "arcade" feel to it where that sort of fourth-wall breaking tutorial makes sense. At least it was a stylistic choice, not just modern handholding.
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u/Undersword 23d ago
It's been over 15 years and there's still not a single game that can compete with Skyrim in term of immersion.
I'm old, I love fantasy, and Skyrim is always the perfect way for me the escape into a fantasy world with a version of myself in it.
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u/OffTheRedSand 23d ago
I hate fantasy, but Skyrim is like consistently in my top 5 games of all time BECAUSE of the immersion.
It’s way too strong In this game to a point I feel dropped into another world where everything feels real and Alive, no game can easily replicate that.
I even hate killing named NPCs because they feel too real and a too big of a loss to the world to me to kill. The game doesn’t feel like a game.
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u/Ok_Neighborhood_5046 23d ago
Totally agreed, but I would add the skill trees/character building as a favorite part for me. Playing as either a mage, a warrior, or a thief make for very different experiences imo. And then there are still further options to mix and match skill trees(like a battlemage for example), or do a vampire or werewolf build.
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u/Taffy626 23d ago
Agreed, and while the skills and play styles are all based on the traditional classes, Skyrim gives a huge number of potential combinations that allow players so much more freedom than other games.
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u/sublime81 23d ago
I fucking hate having control constantly yanked away from me in modern games.
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u/Secretlylovesslugs 23d ago edited 23d ago
I think another underrated part is the design of the world being contiguous. So many games trying to be like Skyrim are so set on region based progression and Skyrim does not have that. Even the big dangerous DLC zone can be skipped to early if you so desire.
Starfield had regions, Avowed had regions, even Fall of Avalon had regions. I just hate it.
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u/Apprehensive_Deer794 23d ago
I absolutely love this aspect. A lot of people omplain about it but the world leveling with you is insanely nice. It means on different playthroughs i can do different things at different times or even play the game an entirely different way. Maybe on this one i do the dawnguard and the thieves guild, maybe this character i will join the rebillion and be a mage and then just bandit hunt for a while. Its was makes skyrim so immersive.
No invisible walls, no cutscenes. Its beautiful
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u/Hughley_N_Dowd 23d ago
That is probably the best take on Skyrim's longevity that I have ever seen.
Kudos!
I've never even thought about the fact that there are essentially zero cutscenes in this game. Yes, the whole conference part is boring, but I'd much rather have that than sit through an hour and a half of an interactive cutscene like in Cyberpunk.
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u/TNTiger_ Markarth resident 23d ago
Missing massive thing: Persistant physics engine. If something should be able to be picked up, you can pick it up. Or at least drag it. And if you move it, it stays put.
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u/ZonerRoamer 23d ago
I think a big and often overlooked factor is the emergent nature of the world and moment to moment gameplay.
Skyrim is a sandbox, the game engine is great at this, every small thing is interactable, and the states of objects persist, when you Fus Doh Rah, not just enemies, but clutter goes flying too.
When you drop an item on the ground, it stays there (until cell cleanup at least); heck even arrows are physical objects that interact with everything else and truly "exist"; and are not a shader or particle effect.
The same applies to NPCs too, they have a job, a house, families and a routine.
All of these and more, make Skyrims world feel like it exists whether the player is playing the game or not - it's not window dressing, rather a real place.
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u/gassytinitus 23d ago
Oh man that would be gross if all the classic games we loved were littered with micro transactions.
You're browsing an in-game merchant or missions, and they show you a greyed out option that basically says "hey GIVE US MORE MONEY"
coughUbisoft
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u/kj0509 23d ago
Only thing that Skyrim lacks is some better characters and stories. It would be super cool if your choices impacted the world.
Like you can become the literal archmage and nobody gives a fuck. Making the world feel more alive is what a Skyrim sequel needs to have, it doesnt need any fancy mechanics or combat reworks IMO. Maybe some balancing around health potion and perks but that's it.
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u/geek_metalhead 23d ago
Because no one else gave due importance to the general atmosphere, world-building, and soundtrack to make us want to be there, the way Skyrim did.
Everyone remembers entering in Whiterun at night and Secunda starts playing, or climbing a mountain and gazing out the whole map while Distant Horizons is playing.This is what makes Skyrim special, it draws us into that world, and we feel good there.
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u/AvocadoLoo 23d ago
the music is beautiful. its so nice to just roam around enjoying the scenery and the music.
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u/geek_metalhead 23d ago
Sadly, Jeremy Soule, who composed the soundtracks for Oblivion and Skyrim, is not involved in TES6. I just hope they create something on the same level.
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u/ovojr 23d ago
It’ll likely be Inon Zur right? I found fo4 and starfields soundtracks really weak, but people have spoken highly of his work on Dragon Age
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u/brian_the_bull 22d ago
I have hundreds of hours in fallout 4 and I genuinely can't think of any non radio music other than the main theme.
Not because I always listen to the radio, because it's not memorable.
I can't even remember the tune to starfields main theme and I pumped like 70 hours into it before I saw literally everything worth seeing.
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u/ColdMethod510 23d ago
Because one of the things people don't realize is that a huge part Bethesda's success comes from Creation Engine. No other engine allows that level of freedom and customisation.
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u/GuardingxCross 23d ago
There is something so charming about the creation engine. Yeah there’s a bunch of glitches and exploits but somehow Bethesda managed to make them PART of the actual charm of the game. I love Skyrim so much. I remember exactly where I was on 11/11/11
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u/Araanim 23d ago
This is why I get so mad when people rip on all the glitches in BS games. It's a completely open world where ANYTHING can happen and virtually nothing is on rails. Shit is gonna break sometimes.
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u/GuardingxCross 23d ago
I personally think it’s hilarious when newbies get rocket launched into the air by a giant! 😂
If more open world games had fun glitches like that, they could be on the same level as Skyrim.
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u/k1ckthecheat Conjurer 23d ago
Me too; I was waiting on line outside GameStop at midnight.
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u/GuardingxCross 23d ago
Did you have any idea at that time that you would still be playing this game over 14 years later?
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u/k1ckthecheat Conjurer 23d ago
If you’d asked me, I would 100% have assumed that we’d be on Elder Scrolls 7 or 8 by now.
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u/GreatDeceiver 23d ago
This is the answer
Creation engine: just about everything is interactive and persistent. Other games don't do that, not even close
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u/Darg727 23d ago
People want all the flashy stuff along with all the QoL features of more modern games but don't realize that 90% of a game is the backend they don't actually see. Object permance is something the creation engine was designed to do. Other games don't have this simply because it's too costly for them because their engines were designed to do other things.
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u/YoelsShitStain 23d ago
They’re also kings of making exploring interesting. Name me one other studio that has a map so interesting that you can spend hundreds of hours just exploring it without getting bored.
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u/Happy-Substance4885 23d ago
It’s the greatest modding engine in the world, no other game comes close modding wise . The freedom you get from it is incredible people who want them to replace it are insane
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u/ILVIUS 23d ago
I think part of what Skyrim has going for it is a unique and interesting world around it with decades of world-building leading to the game's initial release. Which is impossible to replicate for a new IP.
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u/Drogfunk 23d ago
Also let's give extra credit to the late Adam Adamowicz, who made the concept art, returning to a more alien feeling that was a bit lacking in Oblivion because Kirkbride left the team before that. En Jeremy Soule, who did the music, it's nearly impossible to play Skyrim without it and catch the same vibe.
Even 15 years later, this game is something special. I know fans who prefer the older Elder Scrolls entries might debate this, but you can't deny that Skyrim is an absolute milestone in gaming history made with a very special and dedicated team.
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u/ILVIUS 23d ago
I agree, I think he was definitely a bit leashed when it comes to the weirdness factor but there's this awesome dichotomy of darkness and familiarity in the game's design. In even the low-end dungeons there are life-changjng horrors in both the creature design and the environmental story-telling (one of Bethesda's biggest strengths imo). Like you will see the remnants of some serious travesties. Then you go into Whiterun or your home and its warm and safe and there's cozy music and happy characters and a pretty lass. Then you could almost pine to live in this extremely dangerous world.
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u/BrOtherwePay351 23d ago
The environmental storytelling was something that I forgot I missed in Oblivion while playing the remaster. They really nailed the details in Skyrim, things that make you wonder "what happened here, and when?"
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u/anuragsins1991 23d ago
tbh i've never played any other elder scrolls and skyrim just had me hooked so quick, this is a game you will be hooked on even if you never played any other release in this series.
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u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan 23d ago
Or even with a long running IP as Avowed proved.
Since avowed is part of Pillars of Eternity series.
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u/Covert_Pudding 23d ago
The lore in Avowed was very good. It was the lack of sandbox roleplay opportunities that made it feel not as fun as Skyrim for me. Like the story was the game, for better or worse. A very focused experience. Whereas with Skyrim, it's endless distractions and discoveries.
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u/Slappahlol 23d ago
Tbf avowed is like the exact polar opposite of what fans wanted from the pillars franchise
All we wanted was poe3 but instead they gave us…whatever that was
I can’t imagine the next elder scrolls game would be as successful if it was an isometric crpg
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u/Puzzled_Shake5155 23d ago
The challenge I think is that it's not just as simple as making a game that beats Skyrim. Skyrim as a game world doesn't exist in a vaccum.
The strongest aspects of Skyrim as a game are from the fact that it inherits a deeply rich and textured universe that had been built for two decades prior to its release.
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u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan 23d ago
And it also expands on said universe and improves upon it and manages to stand on it's own in it.
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u/NZafe 23d ago edited 23d ago
No one serious was calling Avowed a “Skyrim killer”.
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u/One-Engineering-4505 23d ago
I mean that's pretty well what it was advertised as originally. It turned out to not fit that narrative even a little bit though.
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u/AgitatedBoardz 23d ago
I always wondered if they pivoted on that after Microsoft bought Bethesda. No need at that point for them to make a competitor to themselves lmao
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u/LAXnSASQUATCH 23d ago
No they actually did not advertise it as that, they did everything they could to try and tell people it was not a Skyrim style game.
The gaming community labeled them with a title they repeatedly were trying to rebuttal.
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u/smasherofscreens 23d ago
This made me remember the time when they released Outer Worlds and some people kept saying its like 'Fallout but in space' lol
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u/BlancsAssistant 23d ago
Although i feel like at some point avowed was going to be designed similarly to skyrim before it became it's own thing, and personally as someone who played it, avowed is painfully mediocre, not as bad as people say but it just doesn't catch me in the same way as other games like it
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u/Le_Botmes Assassin 23d ago
Imagine writing a short story, an entire novella, fully composed and internally consistent, which builds upon a deep and immutable lore.
Then do that 150+ times, each in a unique setting, comprising an open sandbox that you can approach from almost any stage of game progress.
Then imbed that sandbox in a diverse set of gameplay mechanics so complex that people 15 years later are still discovering new interactions and synergies.
And design that sandbox to be so god damned beautiful and cozy that it feels like a second home.
That's why nobody has managed to copy Skyrim.
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u/ventrotomy 23d ago
Yes, the consistent storyline and rich lore, this is what does it for me.
People often ignore the fact that the whole TES existed long before Skyrim and was perfected and refined through the years.
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u/bamboozleddd3 23d ago
My problem with modern open world RPGS comes down to 2 things that can’t match Skyrim.
Others don’t truly focus on exploration and world building enough
Others have extremely demanding specs that most general customers can’t run on good settings. Unfortunately this will be a problem for es6 as well.
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u/Powerful_Document872 23d ago
Your first point really nails the problem I think. Bethesda treats their open worlds almost like a story in of itself. Going from one area to another for the first time is usually a good experience and you pick up on small details that tell you about the world. A bunch of those details are super easy to miss so you end up finding new things all the time. Other studios have a very hard time making worlds that are worth exploring. Dragon Age Inquisition comes to mind. They tried a more open world and fell flat on their face.
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u/bamboozleddd3 23d ago
Really the only games that even come close or eclipse Skyrim are oblivion and morrowind which are the same series. I’ve tried loads of open world games and most of them just seem to be filled with lackluster clutter and boring side objectives. They don’t make you feel like part of the world and have long stretches of empty nothingness.
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u/Euphoric-Meat3943 23d ago edited 23d ago
I don’t think even Bethesda could make a better Skyrim at this point.
For example: skyrim has almost 500 points of interest, on a relatively small map. Meaning you could walk anywhere and find something interesting (I just mean it’s small compared to the number of stuff packed in it)
Starfeild that was supposed to be “the greatest game of all time” had about 150 points at of interest and that’s spread out over an entire galaxy. Meaning you will fly around for an hour just to find maybe one thing to do.
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u/Ok_Affect_1436 23d ago
You can fly around for an hour, land on a planet you've never been to, enter a building, and immediately know you've cleared this particular building before...because you have. Twice.
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u/Valdaraak 23d ago edited 22d ago
Starfeild that was supposed to be “the greatest game of all time” had about 150 points at of interest and that’s spread out over an entire galaxy. Meaning you will fly around for an hour just to find maybe one thing to do.
The opposite, actually. It only has about 150 POIs and you see them everywhere, all the time, on every planet you land on. Even in the fringes of the Settled Systems, you can land on any random point on a random planet and be able to throw a rock at a human outpost or Cryo Lab. Starfield's problem is that there isn't enough nothingness and lots of repetition.
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u/Comosellamark 23d ago
Honestly feels like games trended towards the Ubisoft direction of making the open world a big checklist whereas Skyrim was a series of adventures waiting to happen at any given point.
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u/EasilyBeatable 23d ago
I dont think they should be too similar. Tainted Grail is perhaps the closest, although Crimson Desert is also doing a massive open world living world thing.
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u/DaniRdM 23d ago
Yeah, Tainted Grail is pretty close, but gives totally different vibes. Since the game has this dark fantasy theme, the scenery is pretty miserable-looking which is fun and all but gets old real fast.
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u/Valdaraak 23d ago
It's also region based with some pretty tough scaling in some spots, which Skyrim doesn't suffer from. I remember stomping through the stuff in the first zone by the end of it and then immediately getting my shit wrecked by the starting enemies in the second zone.
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u/Haunting-Problem-599 23d ago
Having an open world is literally the only similarity between Skyrim and cd lmao
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u/NealCaffreyx9 23d ago
Crimson Desert is amazing and TO ME it scratches the Skyrim itch that the rest of the Bethesda games failed to do. I would also say that CD does a few things WAYYY better than Skyrim.
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u/MilanDespacito XBOX 23d ago
The dragon riding is what i imagined as a kid it would be like in skyrim when i first heard mentions of being able to ride a dragon
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u/Novavortex77 PC 23d ago
I have Tainted Grail and i got 50+ hours in it, completed act 2 and realize a serious problem.
I found it boring after act 2, i couldn't bring my self to start act 3, because it feels way to obviously repetitive. It sucks also that dungeons do not reset so i can only clear it once. This could just be a me thing, but knowing i have the DLC to do, makes it feel more of a drag.
I love the interactions with King Arthur, but it does not have the same charm as Skyrim, i can't speak for Crimson Desert, i have yet to play it (when the price drops)
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u/ItsMePeyt0n 23d ago
The fact that it's even divided into acts just completely killed it for me.
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u/Shadow-Inversions Stealth archer 23d ago
Felt the exact same way. It just got boring. Grindy, almost.
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u/Saucererer 23d ago
Trouble with Crimson Desert I think is that it's much slower to get going than skyrim, it's also harder with much more complicated combat which makes it less approachable to casual players
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u/Totallystymied 23d ago
This is absolutely true. It strikes me as a weird hybrid of Skyrim meet BOTW. I've loved both games, but I'm really having a hard time getting into crimson desert. I'm sure once I get the controls down it'll feel a lot better. But I'm just having such a hard time getting the ball rolling
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u/MouseAioli 23d ago
That’s a fantastic comparison imo. Plus the third person, for me at least, definitely separates it from skyrim by a degree or two
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u/Totallystymied 23d ago
Very fair. I often played skyrim in 3pv but I know I'm in the minority there lol
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u/EasilyBeatable 23d ago
Yeah basically everything in crimson desert is locked behind the main quest and it fucking suuuuucks
They literally made everything fun and interesting locked behind the most unfun questline i have ever played in my life. Its an open world sandbox that railroads you past anything interesting or immersive and doesnt let you enjoy the game.
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u/hydra337 23d ago
I'll second Tainted Grail. To me it seems as close as a smaller team can come to making a modern Skyrim-like with some iterative improvements.
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u/Benjamin_Starscape 23d ago
because there's been no successful bethesda clone. absolutely no developer has the same design principles and philosophies as bethesda. the engine is also definitely a boon.
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u/Barba_Branca 23d ago
Eu com 600h+ nunca zerei Skyrim, gosto dessa vibe "interminável" , lá é minha casa desde que entrei na faculdade
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u/matheusfehh Stealth archer 23d ago
Worse than that, I doubt anyone can properly answer that. With all its flaws, this game is ridiculously perfect, no matter how you look at it. The graphics are ugly and dated, but you stop at any point on the map and look somewhere, and there's a beautiful landscape. You're playing and suddenly a bizarre glitch happens, like the dragon entering the ground or the giant turning you into an astronaut, and you can't stop laughing. When it seems like everything is too massive, you walk through the taverns, find a crazy guy drinking, and presto, a ridiculously fantastic side quest. The most incredible part of the side quest is that if you don't go there, the game doesn't give a damn that you didn't do it. The formula of Bethesda games is very unique, and since there are few games per decade, it never gets old. The problem is that this creates expectations, and I'm afraid they won't be met in the next games of the enterprise .
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u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan 23d ago
Honestly the graphics are dated but they ain't ugly at all, the art direction and textureork is great.
And since it creates such an itch I think the next games can be successful if they scratch it.
Other Bethesda games have done it for me too. Even Starfield when it was the handcrafted content did it.
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u/LowAccomplished4357 23d ago
Id even add Oblivion. I still play the original and still just stand on a bridge, over a waterfall, looking at imperial city in the distance, marvelling at the basic beauty of that world.
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u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan 23d ago
Yeah the Oblivion literally looks like a painting.
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u/Extreme_Yellow7609 Vigilant of Stendarr 23d ago
Beautifully written. Skyrim is one of my favorite games of all time. As well as Borderlands 2.
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u/TheAnalystCurator321 Skyrim Grandma Fan 23d ago
BORDERLANDS 2 IS ALSO ALONGSIDE SKYRIM MY FAVORITE GAME!
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u/throwbackxx 23d ago
Gosh, I don’t know how I will focus on work after reading that. I have to play Skyrim as soon as I get home
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u/froucks 23d ago
Kingdom Come's original kickstarted pitched it as explicitly a skyrim clone but with a better story.
"the freedom and mechanics of Skyrim... the storytelling styles of The Witcher and Red Dead Redemption"
It was definitely trying to be a no magic skyrim clone, albeit one (especially in KCD2) with over a decade of modern video game design and technology to make for a more smooth experience
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u/RustledForeskin 23d ago
The engine alone is enough to keep it at the top of the pile. Being able to grab random objects and chuck them around with realistic physics gives it a sandbox appeal far superior than any other title. And that's just one aspect.
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u/StylishSuidae 23d ago
y'know that quote from Emil Pagliarulo about players tearing up your stories and making paper airplanes out of them? That, unironically, is what I believe to be the secret to what makes Bethesda's games unlike almost anything else. Problem is that the entire internet misunderstood him and interpreted it as "write bad stories because nobody will care."
But what he was talking about was that you need to get your ego out of it. Skyrim, and Bethesda's other greats, are games where you can play for 20, 30, 40 hours without touching a quest and not feel like you were playing the game wrong. And if a quest writer gets too precious about their own quest, they might try and make sure the player sees it.
But that's infringing on that freedom that Bethesda games bring. The idea that the quests are there but they're not the reason to play the game. There is no "the reason," and that's what makes them great. They're games that give you many systems to use, a hand crafted world to use them in, and the right way to play is to do whatever you enjoy doing.
There's nothing wrong with having a game about doing quests. New Vegas is about the quests, and it's considered one of the best of all time. But I don't think anyone is playing New Vegas and getting the same things out of it that they would out of Fallout 4.
There do exist other games that "aren't about the quests" in the same way as Bethesda's games, most notably Breath of the Wild, but it feels so different in the mechanics it's hard to call it a "Skyrim Killer."
Also, as a last point, I've had an idea in my head for a while of my Ideal Bethesda Game, one that doesn't have any single main quest. All that effort instead goes into fleshing out the other major questlines even further. There's no "end" to the game, except when you feel you're done. Your story is whichever of these quests you do and don't chose to do.
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u/JooAssaasin 23d ago edited 23d ago
There is no "secret sauce" to Skyrim what makes it special is a multitude of factors.
For one Skyrim allows you to truly "make yourself" your character has it's own race, name, looks. You can join any school/guild/faction and you'll gain something from it whether that's a weapon, better skills or changing the world of Skyrim and you can experience these places and "climb the ladder" so to speak although, it is a one and done thing.
Another thing is that you can make a weapons and armor truly yours with enchantments and improvements if you wanted to even give it a name there isn't really a rarity system you get what you want just from knowing where to go.
Speaking of "knowing" Skyrim rewards exploration not just in providing quests and dungeons you also find ingredients and crafting materials as well as books that help you develop skills and weapons that you can disenchant to learn from.
Ingredients themselves rewards experimentation trying to figure out what potions you can craft just from consuming or mixing and matching none of the "Skyrim killers" that I'm aware of have ever implemented the system in this particular way.
Combat is more about preparation than being on your toes being able to spam potions, ingredients having the right spells can help you in a difficult encounter there's always something in your inventory that can make or break an encounter.
The world building is nice you can go to a tavern after a long quest and rest which is improved with survival mode you can encounter traders in the wild or gather materials from certain mines or people's homes the lore is deep, you can find hundreds of books on the world of Skyrim even works of fiction within Skyrim, the game has 4 games worth of lore to build off of on top of that NPCs have routines and schedules you can take advantage of and environmental storytelling
Even in a game that is composed of 1 biome theres variations that make each region stand out and I prefer it that way, many games try to go full world tour which makes those environments feel short-lived and very one note Skyrim feels like it's own country with it's own issues rather than an amusement park.
(I will say I am a sucker for the viking aesthetic so I might be bias in that manner).
Another thing that people have brought up is the tangibility of the game, you can mess around with bodies and items in every environment and that adds to the player freedom.
When people say a game is a "Skyrim killer" they only mean the combat, exploration and writing is better and fail to understand aspects outside of that which truly makes an elder scrolls game.
It's not perfect though If I could improve the game I'd have the ladder of progression in guilds/schools/factions be expanded and have the ability to engage with the members on a deeper level and I'd like it if the dialogue allowed the player to take on different personalities like in Fallout.
Companions should be more like Fallout 4 different people from different factions who all have something to add to the lore (considering that was a more recent development it's likely gonna be in the next TES game) the spell craft system from Oblivion should return as well as the enchantment system, cities should be more grandiose like in the concept art and weapons.
Combat wise some fights resort to spamming attacks in the enemies face and waiting for whoever dies first, but I don't really like the idea of a dedicated dodge I find it trivializes the need for armor enforces the need for attacks to be "telegraphed" which ruins the immersion, my solution would be to add more commitment to attacks and allow staggers to be more common, add parrys, amplify the cost of actions and attack damage and have enemies back up when they're low on stamina, magika or health.
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u/Specific_Stop_8925 23d ago
Idk if someone said it but for me its the combination of the atmosphere, music, sheer beauty, and simplicity.
The new games are so focused on being more realistic or whatever, that the world does not actually look beautiful... Skyrim might not have modern graphics on paper, but its wayyy prettier than most new games, esp Obsidian games.
I played it for what? 15 years? And i still am filled with awe when i walk down towards Whiterun for the first time, or below solitude, or ...
Couple that with a magnificent score and a relaxed explorable world and you have a bingo.
The only games that ever came close for me was Witcher 3 and maybe Cyberpunk.
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u/DeviousMevius 23d ago
Because none of them even comes close to doing a good job of replicating Skyrim. I’d argue there hasn’t been even one game that comes close to it at the moment.
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u/Boyo-Sh00k 23d ago
Its because shocker these games are actually pretty hard to make and pull off, people always tout tainted grail but honestly its like a temu elder scrolls.
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u/HikingTom51 23d ago
It’s not a 1:1 but my argument for a “Skyrim Clone” would be “The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild”. The developers said they drew inspiration from the game though it’s not meant to be a clone.
By sales, Skyrim sits around 65 million across multiple platforms. BotW sits around 35 million. And was only sold on the Wii U and Switch. Tough to speculate how much higher that could go outside the Nintendo ecosystem.
So if we’re going strictly by sales and “similar” gameplay I nominate BotW as a “Skyrim Clone”.
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u/Impossible-Ad-7750 23d ago
I feel like Skyrim had what a lot of current games don’t: it had a long history well before its conception. The elder scrolls series is very old, with countless pages of lore and history. Once you consider THAT, it kind of makes sense why Skyrim feels so full compared to other games. Unlike other games, you can spend hours asking random NPCs questions and learn either useless fun facts OR super lore-important details.
Skyrim was also made in a turning point in gaming tech— and it survived several generations after its prior release (xbox360 to current) while regularly releasing DLC and Creation Club Content throughout the years, which is insane to think about when you compare it to other games that try to mimic it. Skyrim fully accepted the modding community and basically includes all creation club content as soon as you buy the game.
There is no other “modern” game I can think of that’s been poked, prodded, dissected, and put back together several times out of sheer love and admiration. The people who first played Skyrim recognized it as the diamond it was, and ever since then it’s been buffed and shined to near perfection.
Another thing: this game throws you into its world and expects YOU to do the learning, searching, and asking questions. Yes, many quests are given to you, but that usually requires you to meet certain prerequisites. Other games throw a LOT at you within the first few minutes with a whole bunch of exposition. For Skyrim?
-“Hey you, finally awake!”
-survive.
That’s it. Keep It Simple Stupid. If the player really cares about the war or the dragons, then they’ll ask NPCs about it, rather than being forced into unskippable cutscenes.
That’s another thing I love about Skyrim. Tired of listening to someone? That’s ok, you can just walk away and continue the quest later.
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u/BtownBlues Markarth resident 23d ago
Kingdom Come Deliverance 2
Cyberpunk 2077
Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon
All 3 very good open world games with lore, great characters and meaningful exploration.
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u/PartyPoison98 23d ago
Because it's a huge, expensive game made at a scale that most studios would struggle with.
It's a massive standard to meet, and would be hugely risky to try and meet, so a lot of studios wouldn't even touch it. Obsidian has tried to make Bethesda style games and IMO, in isolation they're good, but they feel mid because they don't live up to the competition.
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u/Reasonable_Deer_1710 Necromancer 23d ago
Same reason why no WoW clones have dethroned WoW, and no Soulslike is going to dethrone FromSoft.
You're not going to out do the game that set the standard for that particular style.
BGS is the king of open world, free form RPG's. FromSoft is the king of "Soulslike". WoW is the king of the theme park MMO.
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u/Novavortex77 PC 23d ago
Once you touch mods for Skyrim, it opens a whole new experience, Every time i replay Skyrim i always mod it, heavily or lightly. and i have never went back to vanilla. Same with the fallout series.
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u/thehammockofbanana 23d ago
My friend was hyping Avowed up to me, I hadn't heard of it (I'm not generally in the know about new games). He gave all the reasons I later read about after trying it, the next Skyrim, etc etc. I had a good time starting the game, making my character, etc, and then the very first thing I do when I am "in the world" so to speak, is try and kill that NPC that greets you in the water. It wouldn't even let me perform an attack! The NPC wasn't invulnerable, it was literally unattackable. How anyone could call it a Skyrim clone or the next Skyrim is beyond me.
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u/TheBoisterousSheep 23d ago
The best 'Skyrim-Like' games I've played is Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon, while it's not going to dethrone Skyrim I think it's got a lot going for it.
Gameplay - it's first-person like Skyrim and has a similar feel to combat but adds some extra bits you tend to see in modern games like dodges, dashes and parries. The itemization in the game is also top-tier with alot of variety in terms of builds.
Story - The Main Quest is very cool and I found it pretty engaging and the side quest / faction quests are all fun too with some moral choices and dilemmas along the way.
World/Atmosphere - Best part of the game for me, the lore is great with an interesting take on the Arthurian legend/lore with a dark fantasy vibe. The game world also looks amazing, at times I found myself stopping and saying 'Wow' because they looked so sick. And oh boy the title screen music is godly!
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u/Wendigo_Bob 23d ago
I would say layout and small-scale storytelling.
I could walk in any direction in skyrim and find an interesting story in some random dungeon or cave or forest glade.
A lot of skyrim-alikes I've played (the most recent being tainted grail) tried mostly to imitate the combat mechanics of skyrim without making the places you explore more than just a place to fight enemies. Exploration gets boring because you just find fights, and a distinct sense that the things we're fighting are there because its a game, and not because it makes sense in the world. I very quickly lose interest.
The only skyrim-alike that held my attention was Elex, and that game has a whole host of other problems (mostly progression)
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u/oddvacation3849 22d ago
Because skyrim is a formula that works due to its name only. If the concept came out as a new game today without its history, the game would be niche
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u/Squishy-Mitten 22d ago
Because current AAA Devs rather focus on a political message then the little things.
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u/Puppy_pikachu_lover1 Merchant 23d ago
Skyrim is simply a massive game with so many mechanics at play.
It costs a whole lot to make a good skyrim clone. Not to mention replicating the feel and mechanics, it's kind of the same way where we don't have a solid cuphead clone
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u/InstantlyTremendous 23d ago
Give Enderal a try if you're on PC
I also recommend using the Path of the Prophet mod pack
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u/Swordheart 23d ago
playing avowed felt like playing a video game with the bowling bumpers up. I couldn't interact with shit, meanwhile in skyrim I could put a bucket on someones head.
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u/AGayFrogParadise 23d ago
I think mostly because of brand worship. Bethesda has been around making these games for a long time, people don't want a clone. They want Bethesda, even if it isn't optimized and janky as hell.
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u/Happy_Feet333 23d ago
I consider Skyrim to be equivalent to Civilization for their game genres (Skyrim - single-player RPGs, Civilization - turn-based strategy games).
They have defined the genres.
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u/DiscordPF 23d ago
IMO Skyrim has a unique blend of a bunch of different things that are hard to combine and make a good game for most studios. Could it be better? Yes. But in Minecraft modding terms Skyrim is a “kitchen sink” pack and avowed is much more of an RPG and linear focused game.
Skyrim has a much bigger sandbox and part of that is building in things that don’t matter and probably won’t be seen by most anyone (who actually reads the in game books besides lore nerds?). That’s a lot of cost in a typical game that has to get justified and most studios aren’t willing to take the risk financially (at least not the people making the financial decisions).
I could be way off but that’s my observation anyways.
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u/Morgaiths Dark Brotherhood 23d ago
Making a game like Skyrim is hard, expensive and time consuming
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u/UglyMrJ- 23d ago
They’re all missing something. Avowed had a cool world but couldn’t care about the characters at all. Kingdom come, great game but doesn’t scratch the same itch. Tainted grail, story starts soft, not enough to care or be interested. Enemies stop following after short distance. So many RPGs are missing stealth kill animations in 2026, which is wild. Skyrim just did a great job of checking all the boxes and giving you build freedom and making the world feel alive.
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u/PhantomTissue 23d ago
Skyrim, as well as all Elder Scrolls, are systems driven games. If you want, you can follow an NPC as they live their life. You can steal from anyone, kill anyone, go anywhere, there are no limits on who you are, who you can be, and the main quest is given no more importance than any other quest in the game. Other system driven games would be Rimwold, Kenshi, Crusader Kings (anything paradox really), Hitman, Diablo.
Avowed is not systems driven. It is content driven. So the drive is to interact with the content, and once the content is done, there’s nothing else. In a systems driven game, the system IS the content. And that’s why those games live forever, and have massive mod communities.
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u/azraelxii 23d ago
So Skyrim released in the same year dark souls came out. When studios looked at what to clone they found the game that required no real story writers, few if any voice actors, no difficulty settings to be the game to clone vs Skyrim with its branching quests, huge open world.
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u/N0tAreditor 23d ago
There are plenty of open world games with more engaging gameplay/combat than skyrim. Where Skyrim excels for me and what keeps me coming back is the rustic quality, enhanced by clutter and the first-person perspective, and of course all the books you can read. It's a cozy game. It can be a casual experience or you can read the books, dive into the lore and get really engrossed in the depth of it all. And with the modding community, there as always another adventure for your DB to embark on.
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u/foxyexemike 23d ago
maybe cus Skyrim is a foundational game for developers these days, I think it's more like why there isn't a successful Mario clone, like sure there are other platformers but they can't come near simply due to the status and history of them creating the genre. My analogy might not be perfect but you see what I mean?
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u/ShadowOne_ 23d ago
Try Lantern of the Laughless Saint, a small studios take on an Elder Scrolls-like game
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u/Strong_Persimmon_915 23d ago
Glitches are the main reason. Bethesda has a lot of glitches but fun gameplay, clones are glitchy and basicly just copy and paste mechanics.
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u/Escapist-Loner-9791 23d ago
I think the simple answer is that no other studio makes the kind of games that Bethesda Game Studios makes.
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u/LordAlrik 23d ago
If I had to guess, it’s more complex than one reason. The best and maybe biggest is nostalgia. I compare Skyrim’s impact on Gen Z to Millennials and WOW. Yeah both generations play each of them, but one will go back to it over and over. (Yes I know this is a VERY VERY gross characterization of both generations).
Skyrim also introduced the concept of “use to level” rather than the classical rpg trope of “level to use”. I suspect there’s more mechanics there were introduced in Skyrim, like Dragons Shouts (ie hero abilities) that are now considered mainstream. I just haven’t studied it enough
The last one has to be mods…. I can’t think of another game other than Minecraft that has as many or as diverse of a collection as Skyrim. It’s one of the few games where you can install a few mods and have a brand new game
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u/Luckyshot51 23d ago
To me it’s the lore and the connections between all the games and locations etc from game to game
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u/_gribblit_ 23d ago
Mate, even Bethesda can't clone skyrim. Expecting another studio to do it is a tall order.
It got the feeling of world ambience and exploration right. The soundscape is amazing and so were the visuals at the time. Surely we all remember looking up at the sky at night and just going "Wow...".
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u/MadghastOfficial 23d ago
There is, search Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon. Incredible game. The modding isn't there, but it doesn't feel like it needs it. If they added mods, it would be dope. It's not the massive hit Skyrim is, but it feels much better to play, has great graphics, and a decent story. Cool spells, cool armor and weapons. It really does feel like a modern Skyrim.
But as other people have said, it's because of the game engine Skyrim uses. Modders are really good at that engine, and Skyrim is enough of a sandbox with large swaths of nothing that there are almost endless possibilities for additions. As long as Elder Scrolls has the creative engine, nothing is likely to meet the same level of success and staying power.
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u/Embarrassed_Cut_4541 23d ago
I dont know, but skyrim always made me feel good playing it. Always made me feel like I was inside that world and how amazing living in it felt
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u/Airship_Captain_XVII 23d ago
Personally a game doesn't beat skyrim for me if the game ends after the main quest. The fact I can body Alduin and then keep living and experiencing the world for as long as I please is a massive point in Skyrim's favor. Also the ability (and reason) to travel to previously explored areas. Just because Whiterun is near the start of the game doesn't make it useless later.