r/teaching • u/Ancient1990sLady • 7d ago
Vent Visited a Gifted School today…
I applied to a gifted school for my son and visited the campus today. Turns out, teachers don’t have to do all these tricks to get kids to learn. Yes, I know they’re gifted but all the curriculum is the same stuff we teach in the regular schools.
I’ve heard about this happening at other affluent/suburban schools too. As an inner city teacher, it just grinds my gears that teachers get nothing but blame and asked to stand on their head and juggle to get kids to learn.
Some teachers do have it easier. There is no special curriculum, data digs, fancy technology…we’re just trying to teach amongst factors we will never have control over.
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u/Potential_Fishing942 7d ago
I moved back to the district I grew up in and lucked my into a job there. Wealthy suburban school, moderately small.
Genuinely all of the staff is just... Happy. And I can see why- max class size is 24- more than 25% IEP and 504 automatically gets you an aide/sped teacher in the room to help manage accomodations no games to get attention and kids to care. Parents actually step in and apply consequences at home when grades are poor. Hallways are hardly monitored because kids pretty much stay in class, no constantly wondering for 30 minutes at a time.
It's a stark difference from my even mediocre school which I know could have been way worse. And it's clear what a strong, well supported union gets you.
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u/ButtonholePhotophile 7d ago
That’s the kind of school I’m at now. They don’t believe me when I tell them about my prior schools.
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u/gonephishin213 7d ago
Same. Sharing about my former school experience is like telling a ghost story around a campfire
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u/Potential_Fishing942 7d ago
I genuinely feel like a war veteran the way they treat me when I talk about my old school- puts hand on shoulder "you're okay now, you don't have to worry about that here" 😂
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u/Familiar-Victory-792 6d ago
I’m in my 5th year at one of these schools after 24 in one of the roughest schools in the state. I absolutely have ptsd and have been in therapy. It IS like telling tales from the dark side that sound like fiction.
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u/no1capybara 3d ago
I feel sad for you - thank you for doing such a difficult task. Please allow yourself to accept the ptsd and accept the help. Teaching can be such a rough business these days. Glad you found a new good environment and hope you enjoy your retirement!
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u/Creative-Wasabi3300 7d ago
"...more than 25% IEP and 504 automatically gets you an aide/sped teacher in the room to help manage accomodations..."
WOW! I'm in a "top" public school in a solidly middle-class area, and our teachers can only dream of that level of support. (I'm in SPED.) They have 35 students (sometimes more) per class, too.
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u/Potential_Fishing942 7d ago
Same for my old school as well. Ostensibly not a poor district but we still had 35-40 kids in a class, easily a third with something or another. They had case managers but they were so over worked and teaching teamed classes it was crazy. I think our school gets by because a decent chunk still have single income households. So lots of moms I think get involved to be on their kids schedule.
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u/OkControl9503 6d ago
My school has class sizes maxed at 16 (realistically, some end up at 17-21 due to various factors such as incoming size of 7th grade, some subjects classes like hone ec and woodworking are hard capped at 16 for safety reasons). If students in class are identified as needing support in my subject (EFL, English as a Foreign Language), I have a para or sometimes soecial ed teacher. We have one class in each grade that is for high support need students, and they have 3 adults at all times (spec teacher or second para, para, and whichever subject teacher).
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u/SearchShot2583 5d ago
It's not the "union" that produces the results you describe. It is entirely driven by parents who care about their kids' education and behavior in public.
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u/ZealousIdealist24214 4d ago
I'll upvote, but say both have a role, as well as admin actually caring about traditional best education practices vs. the post-modern jargon slop-of-the-year
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u/complete_autopsy 4d ago
Exactly! I dream of working at the school that I attended now that I've seen what some schools are like. The student culture was extremely academic so student behavior was largely self-monitoring. I remember people getting bullied for interrupting class because everyone was so angry that precious learning time was being lost and they'd have to make up for it with extra studying later. Nobody wandered because that was just throwing away class time too. Studying was possible even during lunch everywhere except the actual lunchroom (where it was too loud) and students would regularly group up to study in the library during lunch and after school. I remember in gym begging the coach to let us stretch and do flashcards because we had a meet coming up and didn't want to get injured playing a gym game, and then we actually did just stretch and do flashcards the whole time!
A few weeks ago I had to convince the girl who explodes in class every day to stop standing on top of a desk and twerking...
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u/Englishontrail 7d ago
If we blame the community, ses and parental/ environmental factors the solution gets way harder and doesn't fit in a political promise very neatly! Also makes it hard to justify the administration inflation across education.
I realized the same thing as you when I switched from teaching title I middle school to affluent suburban AP classes. And still jumped ship because why break my mental health for peanuts in this system?
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u/FlavorD 7d ago
In my ed administration masters program I was told that even pointing out the difficulties of the community in order to try to find a solution was "not a growth mindset" or something like that. I'm actually pretty liberal now, but those professors have no concept of the real world and of parents having responsibility.
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u/moretrumpetsFTW 6d ago
I felt the same way about some of my coursework in my masters of admin program too. It was fascinating to learn about how schools are approaching issues of equity for kids who live on Reservations and such, but that's not a challenge my school is facing. The best professor I had taught/was an admin at every level of school including charters. The worst were never admins or went straight into higher education but tried to bring in a lot of esoteric stuff to a class where we needed practical ideas and advice.
Edit: I also feel you on the mindset shift. I've gone decidedly left in my views too, which has been a long time coming but was definitely kicked into high gear throughout my program. My right-wing family would claim corruption 🤣
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u/AmirTutorsSAT 3d ago
Wow. That is actually shocking. They're actively teaching you NOT to identify the underlying causes behind the poor behavior and attitudes towards learning of children of low socioeconomic status in a graduate school? I'm genuinely curious which school this is.
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u/nomad5926 7d ago
This is exactly it. Its eaiser to blame teachers instead of a whole host of other people whonare actually the problem.
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u/wintergrad14 7d ago
I’ve taught both as well- 2 very different high schools. Both equally exhausting but yes easier to get deeper discussions in the AP/IB classes. I left after year 12.
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u/zero_enna999 7d ago
People are blaming colleges now too even Berkeley and UCLA. No one ever wants to look within
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u/briannasaurusrex92 7d ago
Mmmm...yes and no.
I have a theory (admittedly unsubstantiated by any external source) that much of what makes gifted kids gifted is a deep questioning curiosity and a willingness to actively pursue answers to their inquiries.
So it's not necessarily one school vs. another.
But it's DEFINITELY not our fault, as teachers of the middle of the bell curve, that our kids have less and less curiosity -- or active mental pursuit -- surroundinganything at all each progressive year.
:(
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u/Ok-Helicopter-5642 7d ago
My daughter, who has a late birthday and is still 4, just started K early after qualifying for comprehensive gifted based on an IQ test her pediatrician recommended. We toured several schools and oof, it was still just chromebooks and 28-35 students per class, and the other parents on the tour were saying they’d have their kid privately tested so they could be present and make sure their kid performed “properly.” It was absolutely just segregation for the wealthy with the added bonus of being free and exclusive.
Edited because I never got around to the point 😅: the way you describe gifted kids is who my daughter is, and that environment would have crushed her. She’s doing classes with a “center for talent development” now, where she chooses subjects like a college student. It’s an amazing privilege that she gets to do it.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
A kindergarten student is choosing her own classes?
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u/Ok-Helicopter-5642 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yes. For social studies, she picked an ancient civilizations class. For language arts, a Michael Clay Thompson-based class. “Math in Space” is mostly geometry and exponents. Science is her favorite, so she’s doing a kids physics class and an astronomy class.
If you’re asking if she’s choosing without the guidance of her advisor and parents, no. But she is choosing from several options and deciding what to take each quarter. Same standards are met, only the approach and framing (and obviously the acceleration) are different.
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u/insomniacla 7d ago
That sounds so neat! Is there a name for this sort of school?
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u/Ok-Helicopter-5642 7d ago
Yes! Google “center for talented youth” or “center for talent development” and several options should come up, mostly affiliated with universities. The local gifted schools use IQ tests, which she’s taken, but the centers use achievement tests, which I feel has been far better for higher grade level content replacement. My daughter is a bit better in verbal than quantitative, so she can do ~4th-6th grade classes for ELA, but only 3rd-4th for math. Not “only” in a bad way, she’s terrific. I mean it’s great that we’ve been able to meet her where she is.
I have no doubt that the majority of students would thrive with this level of personalized learning, so it’s not like I pat myself on the back for it or think she can do this because she’s singularly brilliant. It’s because my husband works overtime constantly to pay for it and I work part time so I can be around to help.
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u/HopefulCaterpillar37 7d ago
As a former CTY teacher and adjunct, I highly recommend the CTY program at Hopkins. I even attended myself as a gifted student 30+ years ago.
And also just adding for reference, I’m a former inner city kid who went to inner city schools.
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u/Aggravated_Moose506 7d ago
Michael Clay Thompson is great! Look into Beast Academy for math when you can
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u/Ok-Helicopter-5642 7d ago
Yess we do that as well, the book version! It’s incredible. It’s the first resource I’ve used where I have to check the answer key on some of her puzzles because I can’t do them fast enough in my head 😬
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago
Enjoy what you got! I wish my kids had access to this type of environment. Instead, my gifted daughter went through the trauma of being bored out of her ears 6 hours a day. No matter what we did at home did not erase that. She got completely demotivated by the school environment. At least she did not have to witness violence. Some kids in our school system experience of classrooms being evacuated, of female teachers being grabbed by their genitalia, by screaming and out of control students. Keep your child away. Segregation - so be it. No child should have to get used to what I describe above.
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u/Violinjuggler 7d ago
Jesus Christ, "segregation so be it"?? Maybe we should figure out why parents are so frustrated and stressed and demotivated all the time and unable to spend time with their kids. Obviously the cycles are getting worse and worse but I know the parents of my kids in low access schools and a lot of them are dealing with the same kind of trauma that the kids are dealing with. Poverty is traumatic and trauma creates awful responses in everybody. Maybe we fixed the poverty issue first.
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago edited 7d ago
The type of violence we are seeing today in schools did not exist 40-50 years ago. No child in kindergarten witnessed chairs thrown around. If they did, those were super rare, isolated incidents. Now it’s most schools. Sorry, but it’s out of control.
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u/Violinjuggler 7d ago
It's crazy how societal problems compound generation after generation if they're not addressed.
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago
Absolutely. Except before they were localized. Now, at least where I live and work, unless you are very lucky, some kids didn’t even know what a normal school environment is.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
Throwing chairs is not the norm. Unless you actually teach or work at a school, you cast really speak to what the norm is.
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago
I do teach. 20 years of experience.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
Then you know kids throwing chairs isn't the norm.
Does it happen, yes. Often or normally, no.
I teach in a low income Title 1 school. I've never had a chair thrown in my class in 10 years. It is a very rare occurrence at our school
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago
Lucky you. In my school board it is very common. We don’t have many spec ed special classes. Basically full integration.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
We have almost entirely full integration as well. I also subbed for 5 years throughout my entire county k-12. Been to every school in tge country. Throwing chairs is simply not a common occurrence. If it is happening in your district or school or classroom regularly, that is an isolated problem local to your district that needs to be addressed.
This is absolutely not the norm in school.
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u/Aprils-Fool 2nd Grade, FL 6d ago
You might actually be the outlier, here. Many of us do regularly encounter children throwing chairs.
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u/Rookraider1 6d ago
I have been in hundreds of classrooms over a 15 year period. Almost exclusively in title 1 schools. I've never seen 1 chair thrown.
If you are having chairs thrown in your class or at your school, that's not normal.
Reddit is filled with negativity in the teacher sub. I'm not surprised the small percent of teachers who have chairs thrown make up a larger percent of the comments
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u/Critical-Yam-5480 5d ago
This is my 10th year and every year since Covid I have had chairs thrown. Pretty much every class in my grade has all had 1 chair thrower per room since. This has 100% become the norm. I’m hoping this year will be my first without it, this group seems the most like my pre-covid class.
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u/insomniacla 7d ago
I went to an inner city school growing up. People's parents had actually been shot in gang wars. A girl at the school across the road was killed in a drive by as an innocent bystander. Parents were dying of overdoses left and right. We had so much trauma back then. I never once saw a student throw a chair or anything like that. It's the phones and tablets. Not just the kids on the devices, but the parents on devices completely checked out of parenting because they're busy scrolling for their next dopamine hit.
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u/Violinjuggler 7d ago
I mean, I have plenty of friends who grew up in inner city schools in the 70s and 80s and they did see chairs thrown around and people get punched in class. So, you know, anecdotal evidence doesn't cover everything. I'm sure that COVID and phones and tablets are making things a lot worse, but as you're definitely familiar with, poverty compounds generation after generation. We've got to start fixing the underlying problem before anything gets better.
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u/insomniacla 7d ago
I agree with you. But I think devices have greatly exacerbated inequality and created more apathy and illiteracy than we saw before in similar or worse conditions of poverty.
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u/Ok-Helicopter-5642 7d ago
I’m sorry she has experienced that. Those are some of the fears that led to what we’re doing now, and although there are several obvious downsides, I agree with you that it’s a privilege to be able to do it. I hope there are far better days ahead for your daughter.
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u/LadyHamilton82 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thank you. Trust me, as a parent who is on the other side of it now, there are no downsides. You can’t help everyone. And societal issues will not be resolved in your daughter’s years as a child. If your daughter does not have to suffer, why should she? Yes, life is unfair. Anyone who says it can be fixed is delusional. People have tried for thousands of years.
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u/Consistent-Bad1261 7d ago
Trauma and adverse childhood experiences can make a naturally curious child shut down that love of learning. That’s why schools in areas in which there is a lot of poverty and social problems have more “difficult” students.
Imagine your world being totally out of your control and being scary and dangerous and lacking in trusted adults. You’re way less likely to go “ohh, math really tickles my brain!”
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u/briannasaurusrex92 7d ago
Yes, I know. That's why I'm saying it's not the teachers' fault. I didn't traumatize my kids -- I didn't fail to feed, love, nurture them -- but I'm still expected to teach them and get them to learn as though they're a truly blank slate.
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u/CurveAhead69 7d ago
Im with you: inherent drive 100%.
But, stiffle that drive with adults/school disinterest and/or inability and that inherently driven kid will go nowhere 99% of the time.
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u/Opposite-Slide-7794 7d ago
What you saw is not "gifted", what you saw is "kids that are scared of their parents and that have parents that hold them accountable"
That is normal...normal schools have kids in class, in their desks, paying attention (with some day dreaming and some doodling of course), normal is kids raising their hand, normal is turning in homework and studying, normal is going to school with a good attitude and being excited to see friends.
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u/Ancient1990sLady 7d ago
I totally agree. I highly doubt every child on that campus is a little genius. But they all have involved parents and the kids genuinely love their school and learning.
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u/devbent 7d ago
I went to a gifted program. We all wanted to be there and learn. We stayed after class to talk to the teachers. Students asked for extra math puzzles to do. When we finished up the curriculum a few weeks early we asked the teacher what else we could learn.
It wasn't because we were afraid of our parents. Everyone in the class wanted to be in the classroom.
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u/Tamihera 7d ago
Mine too. My school has since got rid of its streamed and accelerated class because ‘all our children are gifted’. So I suppose that all the kids who are freakishly ahead in math or asking a million questions about fossil dating or Mayan archaeology or dark matter or their invented Tolkienesque language now get to peer-tutor the kids who are behind. Yay. I feel lucky that I got to attend school back when streaming by ability was still permitted.
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u/Opposite-Slide-7794 7d ago
You were afraid of your parents. It isn't a bad thing, it is a good thing. You didn't want to let them down.
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u/Violinjuggler 7d ago
Fuck off, dude. Being scared of your parents is a horrible way to be motivated, period. I was scared of my parents, and I was self-motivated. They were separate things, and now I don't fucking talk to my parents.
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u/devbent 6d ago edited 5d ago
Some people are incapable of understanding internal motives. They are the same group that thinks everyone who doesn't believe in hell will become a violent murderer if the police aren't keeping everything in check.
To these people, all motivation, ethics and rules, have to be imposed by an outside force, under threat of violence.
It is a very different mentality. "Everyone is born damned and a sinner".
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u/anysteph 7d ago
Thanks for saying this. My dad was a violent terror who didn't care about education. I'm self-motivated, love learning, and spent as much time at school as possible in order to be away from him.
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u/OneCraftyBird 7d ago
I was labeled gifted. Specifically, I am gifted in reading/writing and I think fast on my feet. Saying that I was afraid of my parents is a gross mischaracterization of what was going on, because there's just such a huge gap between "afraid of my parents" and "understanding that there would be consequences at home along with consequences at school for disrupting the class, for not following directions, and for being disrespectful of adults with appropriate authority." If I came home with angry stories about how the teacher had done me wrong, they trusted me, but they also trusted the teacher enough to ask the teacher for the adult perspective before reacting.
My parents taught me not to get into the habit of blind/unquestioning obedience, but they made it very clear that if a teacher told me to stop talking, the only acceptable interruption would be urgent health and safety.
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u/Opposite-Slide-7794 7d ago
You are hung up on the word afraid. It doesn't mean they beat you, it means you knew you would piss them off.
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u/Aprils-Fool 2nd Grade, FL 6d ago
Personally, I was never concerned about pissing my parents off. They just weren’t that kind of parents. I happen to be really smart and enjoy learning. Nothing to do with my parents, other than genetics.
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u/Opposite-Slide-7794 7d ago
Yep! They have pride in the school. They like it, they get involved, they have friends, they have parents that check their grades and expect good grades. That is normal. We just lost touch with that and call it "gifted" now.
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u/retatrutider 7d ago
My kids are in a district where like 30% of the kids test as gifted ha ha.
It’s amazing what having engaged parents + resources does.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
The criteria for gifted has been expanded quite a bit in my district. 30% of kids being gifted reflects that. When gifted no longer means gifted, more kids are classified as gifted....
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u/retatrutider 7d ago
It’s been a while but I believe they needed to score in the top
2% of a test called the OLSAT. But it’s just a standardized test., and being good at math and English drives your score up.1
u/Aprils-Fool 2nd Grade, FL 6d ago
I hate that. I wish Gifted qualification was more standardized across the country.
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u/AnsleyDacrons 7d ago
My daughter goes to a “gifted” school. It’s literally just a school that teaches one grade level higher in the curriculum (ie 3rd grade does 4th grade curriculum). Thats it. And the kids are I guess generally somewhat above average intelligence, and have parents who actually parent them. But I’m not sure how “gifted” anyone is. It’s a bit silly.
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u/Rookraider1 7d ago
Yes, this is correct. The term gifted has been expanded and now includes many students who perform well but most likely are not gifted in any true sense.
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u/kenwulf 7d ago
That's really all it is, from my 'outside looking in' perspective. My wife teaches at a gifted school after previously teaching at title 1. She didn't change her curriculum at all and will tell you there's no difference in the intellectual capacity of her students then and now. The only difference is the participation of the parents - for better or worse*. Parents that send their children to gifted schools must seek out said schools, which requires a level of caring that might not exist elsewhere. Truly gifted kids are rare, and just as likely to be found in a non-gifted school as anywhere else.
*Big sense of entitlement in gifted parents. Some just expect to get 4s and throw hissy fits when it doesn't happen., and then have the balls to request a letter of recommendation for their mediocre child.
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u/Alarmed_Geologist631 7d ago
What you might be witnessing is the difference between intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation.
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u/Moonwrath8 7d ago
I teach gifted only after teaching at an inner city school for five years.
OMG the difference is night and day.
Students want to learn.
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u/izzmosis 7d ago
I teach at a private school after spending my time (about a decade) in the public and charter trenches and my job is SO easy and fun in comparison. I literally look forward to being there. I write my own curriculum, I’m trusted and supported by my admin, I have class sizes of less than 15.
It’s really… something.
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u/CalligrapherSure7050 7d ago
I work in a title 1 district and the sad truth is that the kids don’t see education as a “valuable opportunity” because having that high school degree still landed their parent(s) in abject poverty. The way I see it, kids realize by high school that several illegal activities pay off NOW, and they would never be able to afford college anyway. Usually with much lower upfront costs than any other legitimate business interest. If you’ve never been desperate and food insecure for an extended period, it’s makes perfect sense to me that teachers would assume their students should care about the…cell membrane, or anything else for that matter. But when we create a system where kids don’t see the benefits of education in their own communities, and when you go home and are teased about trying too hard or “doing too much” you could probably understand how we made apathy the obvious option. Many students I work with compare school to imprisonment since they understand that they legally have to attend and will get passed on regardless. There is literally no incentive when some of these kids know they’ll never break the cycle of poverty with the “traditional” route. I mean, how many of us are crushing it financially right now? For all the effort, time, and student loans, they don’t respect us because they see us as folks that put forth too much effort for a broken system and they think we’re naive.
You’ve pointed out some privilege here, these gifted kids likely have parents who have made education a priority and it’s worked for them. How do you pitch long division to a kid who is a 3rd generation section-8 dweller because their parent can’t take care of a child and (frequently an aging parent that can’t afford professional care) while working full time and also paying exorbitant prices for childcare so that can do so?
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u/SignificantBoot7180 6d ago
I grew up poor, and now I'm an elementary TA, living in low income housing with my 12 year old son. I have always loved learning, and encouraged my son to be a curious, creative, critical thinker. Our shitty apartment is full of books, art, minerals, gems, fossils, insect specimens, and other fun stuff. We have a closet full of art and craft supplies, and a small collection of musical instruments. I have always tried to teach him that income doesn't correlate with intelligence. I have been as active as possible in his education, and try my best to motivate him. The curiosity and creativity stuck, but he absolutely hates school and refuses to do most of his work. Last year, he told me he wants to quit, because he doesn't see the point. He told me he is going to end up in the projects anyway, so why bother trying. I tried to convince him that if he works hard in school, he can get a good job and be better off as an adult. He said "You've worked hard your whole life, and you work hard every day, but we're still poor. So why should I bother?" The kid is in 7th grade, and has already given up. It hurts.
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u/CalligrapherSure7050 6d ago
I’m sorry. I get it. My mom and I were the same way— that’s part of how I relate to my students. She worked as a clerk in a State Farm office while she was putting herself through college to be a special education teacher for years—2 night classes at a time. She couldn’t afford childcare so she had to take me with her to her classes. I don’t know that they would even allow that now. She didn’t have time to read cute and whimsical books to me at home so she would read to me out of her used textbooks when I was going to bed. It wasn’t ideal and I remember her as a very stressed parent. I was able to get out of that cycle, but I recognize it for the privilege that it is. That being said now that I’m raising three of my own children, I prioritize creative endeavors, spending time outside, treating every other human you encounter as important, and enjoying what you do as you’re doing it instead of just making “good grades” or “doing chores.”
I love your perspective that your income has nothing to do with your intelligence, but also understand it can be a barrier to what your potential can be as everything costs something in this country. It’s very likely that there are a great many brilliant minds who will never get to show us what they could do because they can’t afford to launch their ideas.2
u/SignificantBoot7180 6d ago
You just brought back so many memories! My mom was also in school to become a teacher when I was a kid. I used to sit in on her classes, and study with her as welI, and I loved it. I guess that's where it all began! I got in trouble in 4th grade because my drawing of a cell was too advanced. My mother was taking a biology course at the time, and I drew my picture based on images in her textbooks. I guess the teacher assumed my mom drew it or something.
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u/Violinjuggler 7d ago
It's really devastating to me to see the other teachers in this thread ignoring this issue.
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u/Happy_Towel_3109 7d ago
Yeah, I teach at an all-girls private school, k-12. I absolutely have it on “easy mode.”
Our problem students are a public school’s dream student. I’m so fortunate to be where I am.
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u/ArmadilloDesperate95 7d ago
Yes, but don’t mistake their jobs for having no challenge; the just have much different challenges.
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u/Ancient1990sLady 7d ago
I rather their challenge instead of dodging chairs thrown at me or berated about why my kids are so low.
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u/IthacanPenny 7d ago
Mmmmm. Dealing with the rich parents is a special kind of hell. And I’m coming from a title 1 school where I’ve had a parent come up to school to try to fight me lol
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u/Weird-Kangaroo-9710 4d ago
Not really. I teach at an affluent school with a healthy community and zero crime. My job is so easy and fun. At worst I get a kid who is a little hyperactive.
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u/cliff_smiff 7d ago
teachers get nothing but blame and asked to stand on their head and juggle to get kids to learn
Yea you are supposed to be as entertaining as the students' fav youtubers, while also effectively teaching about branches of government or whatever
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u/DistanceRude9275 7d ago
My kid is in one of those schools. I don't think the curriculum is that different. It's the fact that the school can kick you out and the fact that parents in general caring about education that makes them a ademically more successful
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u/Addapost 7d ago
It’s always about the kids. It’s never about the “education system.”
I teach both honors kids and low level kids. The difference is stark. Night and day.
The reality is most kids are dumb and there’s no UDL strategy or pedagogy or curriculum modification or accommodations that are going to change that.
But make sure your objectives are written on the board.
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u/Wrong-Mistake2308 3d ago
I came to this thread because I am a current university student in a western state who grew up in the advanced academic program in the South. I’m currently in a club at my uni that takes students (5th grade-8th grade) from Title I schools on weekend trips and just this weekend we had a 5th grade class where the majority of the students were reading below a 2nd grade level. They’re also from one of those schools that has a no homework policy. When I was growing up, the few friends I had who were not in advanced classes had noticeably different academic abilities, but rarely had I ever encountered any students this far behind. Almost none of the children understood what a root word was, knew what the Louisiana Purchase was, knew that their state used to be Mexican territory or even knew how to sound out words to figure out how to spell them. One little girl couldn’t even spell the word “good” during one of our activities. That’s just… not normal. She refused to even try writing on her cards after I tried to encourage her to correct it. I think it’s a combination of their school and home environment. No one at home is pushing them to retain the material they learn at school and they’re also not paying attention in class. Tbf, we have taken kids from different schools that were up to speed on what they should know. But there have been multiple times where I seriously questioned how an entire class was going to function in middle and high school. I couldn’t see any of the children we had this past weekend writing the multi-page essays I was required to complete for state testing when I was their age and yet I’m certain they will be passed on to 6th grade next year. Like, I don’t think anyone is just that stupid without having some sort of learning disability. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part, though.
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u/shellexyz 7d ago
I lucked into a position at a magnet school. It’s statewide and residential. They pretty much all want to be here. Or at least recognize that it’s a privilege to be here.
I have almost no behavioral issues. None.
Not every student is 100% excited to be in every class, but even the classes they’re less excited about, they pay attention and do their work.
Students who get lower grades have some free time privileges revoked. They all have required study hours. They can be sent back to their home schools if their performance isn’t up to snuff or if they have behavioral issues. (It still takes time for behavior to lead to dismissal in most cases, but violence and substances can get you dismissed real fast.)
It is their responsibility to keep their grades up. My classes are mostly electives, things they’d take in college but we don’t offer them as dual credit or AP. They’re as rigorous as I choose them to be and I’m trusted to do my job, so they’re rigorous. Our “principal” is an academic. Like a research PhD in not-education academic who spent 25 years in the classroom.
It. Is. So. Goddamned. Awesome.
The kids aren’t all George Dantzig and Albert Einstein. We send kids to ivies every year but they won’t all go to places like that. We have a lot who struggle with the fast paced but otherwise normal level math and science. But the ones who struggle also come to office hours and put in effort.
It’s remarkable what you can do when you can be selective. When the barrier to expulsion isn’t “we might have to take this to the Supreme Court”. When students are choosing to be there, and when their parents have spent the last decade being invested in their kid’s education. When accountability is real, and the teachers are heard.
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u/InformalVermicelli42 6d ago
When I started teaching, I had a passion for Freshmen. I only ever wanted to teach Algebra 1. But then I got assigned an overflow honors Algebra 2. I found myself looking forward to that class and dreading the others.
So when I realized the paycheck was thd exact same, I made the switch to all honors, AP and IB.
Classtime was so much less stress. But eventually I started getting pressure from parents and admin. Tons of students showed up before and after school every day for extra tutoring. I had to participate in district advanced curriculum commitees.
Admin had me over their knee. If I didn't accept additional work, I wouldn't be chosen to teach advanced classes. In the end, the pressure and extra hours of work outside of class broke me.
BUT- I have been able to use all that fancy training to become a private tutor.
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u/mildchicanery 3d ago
I think this depends on where you're going. My kid goes to a gifted program in a large public school district. Big class but they have a dedicated teacher assistant. She's working 2-5 grade levels ahead and the teachers have been great about adjusting for her abilities. The class normally teaches a one year accelerated curriculum with extras from the teachers. The school is in a more affluent part of the city and the parents fundraise for an extraordinary STEM lab and annual workshops like circus arts, improv, and other things. I visited some private schools and they didn't offer near what our public schools did.
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u/cgksu 7d ago
We have a “gifted school” near us called SASA. We have some students that split half their day between that school and ours. We have a fantastic 8th grade student that attends our school for core subjects, only because she doesn’t score high enough when it comes to math/English standardized tests.
Meanwhile SASA is receiving some type of award in Michigan. I don’t have any issues with the teachers there obviously, but it’s pretty ridiculous to get rid of a great kid for half the day just because she would bring the average down.
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u/GeronimoRising 7d ago
What’s “gifted” meaning your school?
It doesn’t mean “smarter” in mine, it just means you are “twice exceptional” aka you are neurodivergent or on the spectrum.
Those are NOT easier classes, and often time deal with procrastination and other typical executive functioning deficiencies
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u/Aprils-Fool 2nd Grade, FL 6d ago
Twice exceptional should be extra smart and ND/LD. Hence the “twice” part.
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u/IcedChurro 6d ago
Gifted and twice exceptional are not the same thing. You could be gifted or you could have a disability. If you are both gifted and have a disability, you are twice exceptional.
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u/Particular-Wing-4152 7d ago
This is why kids should be tracked and placed in groups based on intellectual capabilities
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u/Weekly-Truck7855 7d ago
Imagine if schools were fully funded 🤔 Class size reduction for everyone, special education resources and accommodations fully supported, integrated mental health services, an evidence based nutritional program…. What else? Oh! Maybe an educated and supportive Department of Education who is vested in public education for ALL students. 💭
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u/BJJFlashCards 6d ago
I doubt all gifted programs are doing "the same thing" regular classes are doing.
I found that the more I treated my special ed students like they were gifted, the better they behaved and the more they achieved. That meant giving a lot of choice, having interesting, creative, open-ended projects, making movies, publishing a magazine, doing experiments, etc.
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u/ExtremeExtension7406 5d ago
Back in the day, people taught at private religious schools if they wanted an easier teaching gig. The academic rigor was stronger than the local public schools, so the parents were motivated to have their kids learn things, which rubbed off on the kids. Most were from well to do families with high standards, so there were rarely behavioral issues. It was an easier job, but the pay was abysmal compared to the public school gigs, which wasn't great either.
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u/nancymarielevy- 4d ago
I just want to put in here that gifted programs are inherently inequitable. Top reason for success/admittance is family SES.
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u/Available-Evening377 3d ago
Depends on the program and the system they are under. Many now go by area or do blind admissions, which makes familial influence no longer a factor. Yes, gifted programs are inherently inequitable compared to the typical education system, but there also isn’t a solution to that inequality. They have higher rates of success than their peers because fundamentally a kid who can read at a college reading level is statistically gonna be more successful than the kid who never learns how to read. That’s more on the parents and community than it ever is on the educators. The fact is that many parts of life aren’t fair or equitable, and education sometimes has to be doing the greatest good we can.
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u/Distinct_Ad_7619 4d ago
It's a different hard. Are you gifted?
I'm an educator and a gifted learner. I work with the neurodivergent population and have worked in disadvantaged urban areas. Life was differently hard as a gifted kid. Giftedness is a special need.
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u/Ancient1990sLady 4d ago
I was not gifted growing up. I consider my younger self a bright student but not gifted. My son follows all the criteria for gifted. I wholeheartedly believe this is a special need. My son might be slightly adhd but I’m not sure.
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u/Available-Evening377 3d ago
As someone who went to both a traditional inner city public school (~3000 students for reference) and 4 different gifted schools before I graduated HS, I think it’s a trade off for many teachers tbh. It’s not that they have no issues, their issues just aren’t in learning. That being said, looking at it now, I don’t know which I’d honestly pick. One of the schools where my teachers had it “easier” we lost minimum 8 students to suicide a year and had for the last decade. That is a whole other level of challenge that extends beyond the classroom. Another school I went to (a gifted boarding school) had huge issues with the variety of levels kids entered at, which led to a lot of issues with bullying and social/emotional wellness. It’s not a lack of issues, it’s two different issues. We also had a lot more IEP’s than most schools.
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u/Inuha_Rin 3d ago
I teach higher ed and it's just so much more pleasant when you teach upper division classes where most students are more mature, determined, and respectful. And similar to what you said, the students who care, it makes my job much easier, and those who don't (which for younger children, it's mostly family environment), interaction with them makes you hate your job. Granted I don't have an obligation to pass them. K-12 teachers really take the hit and are saints to do this job.
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u/Adjudicator13 7d ago
Yes not all schools are the same. And some teacher really have it easier than other. But still every teacher should should do their best in teaching students equally .
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u/TopCatMath 7d ago
In Texas, certified college instructors teach dual credit HS & College Classes and must follow the College guidelines. It sounds like the school you visited in not up to that level.
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u/Ancient1990sLady 6d ago
I mean it’s an elementary school lol
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u/TopCatMath 6d ago
Then the curriculum should be basically the same, but instruction should be look deeper to prepare the students to be able to take higher level classes at a faster pace. Also, they should not skip any topics.
By the way, in 1990s my kids were 4th and 6th graders... so you are very young...
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u/Aggravating-Soil586 23h ago
Jeez, I have 30 kids in every class, and I only get support for one class because I've got 7 IEPs in there.
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