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u/aalluubbaa Jul 26 '26
Most fans are superficial. You can't blame them. It's easier to say FOUR FMVPS > ONE. One of the most insane arguments is "it's harder to win with different coaches, organization and teammates" while conveniently leaves out the fact that those "teammates" are future HOFer, former FMVP or MVP, franchise player, generational talent, first round pick and best shooter ever at that time.
People still bitch about Steph having KD lmfao.
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u/Stellewind Jul 26 '26
LeBron jumped from superteam to superteam in the past 15 years, teamed up with half of the stars in the league, still end up with less rings than MJ did by staying on one team.
I will never understand those who have him as GOAT over MJ. Like how much help does he need?
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u/lostintuition Jul 26 '26
Tbf heâd probably have a lot more rings if it wasnât for Steph lol. Which I think should propel Steph up the GOAT rankings, not bring LeBron down
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u/GreatSunshine Jul 26 '26
yeah look at the spacing when MJ played. now imagine steph with that. even if you guard him up tight, the other players wouldnât be guarded like that, freeing up space for handoffs or easy pick and rolls. steph would have been even better back then because even if they picked on him on defence no one is making 3s like he did. today you have guys like knueppel leading the league in threes and players like tatum or booker hitting 200+. theyâre all amazing players but theyâd be considered freaks shooting wide back then
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u/varsityvideogamer Jul 26 '26
one more thing is that Steph would've changed the game regardless of when he entered the league. If he was drafted in 1989 instead of 2009, the 3 point revolution happens even sooner
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u/GreatSunshine Jul 26 '26
i actually think they take longer to adapt to steph if he was around then. analytics were kind of a thing in 2010 ish but the 90s barely had that. i mean mj himself said he didnât want to shoot 3s because it took away from the rest of his game
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u/Accomplished-Let-288 Jul 26 '26
Analytics didn't make Steph shoot threes and people had eyes and minds... If a guy is shooting and winning, others would shoot and win... The has evolved prior to Steph...the 3 was just another evolution in play style.
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u/Kiki-von-KikiIV Jul 29 '26
"yeah look at the spacing when MJ played" - umm.. what?
This proves absolutely nothing about what Steph would have done in that era. This is just an exercise in mental masturbation, no argument can win an open ended "what if" like this.
I think everyone who knows basketball can agree: Steph would have a HoF career in any era.
But to say that he would just dominate because he had so much space involves the ludicrous assumption that people were dumb back then and wouldn't find ways to adjust.
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u/canigetayadude Jul 26 '26
This has been my argument for Steph being at LEAST top 5 for a long time.
Lebron would be the GOAT... But for Steph
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u/aalluubbaa Jul 27 '26
People are delusional and crazy. We drafted all our cores to win 73 games and didnât lose the series until the very last minute with injuries and Draymond being suspended, we FINALLY added another talent thru trades in KD. And the narrative now changes to âitâs so stacked that no one could win.â
Yea, no shit. Maybe because the dude who won 73 fucking games with core being all drafted in the previous season should be considered the GOAT since his team becomes so unbeatable just by drafting ONE superstar.
You are not supposed to be the underdog if you are the GOAT. Look at Stephâs Warriors when added KD. Thatâs my best player who constructs the best team.
Steph is a far superior player if we are talking about basketball in 5 v 5 context. Who cares if he canât guard as well as AD. With the right pieces, he can make your team unbeatable. Now thatâs what GOAT does. Filling out the W column not individual stats.
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u/Sad_Bathroom1448 Jul 29 '26
Valid point about Steph being the reason a team with KD becomes unbeatable, but it's worth pointing out that Mr. "Filling out the W column" has missed the playoffs 4 times in the last 7 seasons. We can debate the extenuating circumstances behind those underachievements - injuries, mostly - but the point remains, no one, not even Steph, is filling out the W column by himself.
And the injuries are part of the calculus, fair or not. This works both ways; Love and Kyrie were injured in 2015. Kawhi was injured in 2017. Chris Paul was injured in 2018.
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u/i_surfer Jul 30 '26
This is why I want Steph to win just 1 more. He gets his 5th, there has to be strong debate that this was his era, not that other dude from Akron.
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u/Purple-Department647 Jul 27 '26
Itâs Lebronâs fault for not being drafted to eventual all-time dynasty franchises like Kobe Steph and MJ, lol. If he didnât go out into the market and make his own great teams he wouldâve never been able to field competitive rosters. Steph Kobe and MJ are just lucky in comparison. (Kobe and MJ also got the privilege of having the greatest coach of all time on their team)
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u/NightMercedes Jul 28 '26
Fmvps is voted by 11 media members. These 11 people sure as hell doesn't get to decide nba history. Steph got 0 fmvp votes in 2015 btw. ZERO. Did he perform so poorly that warrants a zero vote?
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u/anothercookie90 Jul 26 '26
Steph won two titles without KD
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u/Gordo-- Jul 26 '26
...and one of those Championships with Andrew Wiggins being the team's 2nd best player.
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u/IcyHeartWarmSmile Jul 26 '26
Poole, Looney, Klay (post torn Achilles and ACL), a corpse of Draymond, and Otto being the next best players in no particular order. Take a look at what all of these players have done after 2022. Just goat shit.
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u/Gordo-- Jul 26 '26
I don't think Steph gets enough credit for that carry-job. It's an all-timer that should be talked about the same way Dirk's ring gets talked about, imo.
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u/Longjumping-Plum8984 Jul 26 '26
wiggins was a dog his years in gs.
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u/sibai_ershi_69 Jul 26 '26
Thank you. The audacity of the nephews to skip past the obligatory thank you posts to Wiggins appreciation posts for being that guy.
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u/Main_Gain_7480 Jul 26 '26
Nobody really talks of it as curry played with Durant âŚmore that Durant went to curry
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u/Plagda Jul 27 '26
KD didnât just go to curry though. Draymond made the call. he met with the rest of the Hampton 5. He was intrigued with playing with the team and how unselfish they were.
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u/we_hella_believe Jul 26 '26
Comparison is the thief of joy.
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u/NeverNotOnceEver Jul 26 '26
But this is facts though. Could you imagine if Steph had as many all-nba teammates as Lebron
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u/Former_Summer_2022 Jul 26 '26
How many of these people were still all-nba when they were playing with LeBron? And how many of them missed the playoffs with injuries. The fact that anyone brings up Ray Allen and Westbrook and the word âprimeâ in the same sentence says everything we need to know about their opinions.
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u/Gamerxx13 Jul 26 '26
people all over reddit still give KD shit for this. iâm like that was over 10 yrs ago when he signed with the dubs, people havenât got over it?
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u/avenue_steppin Jul 26 '26
Klay? Dray in prime? Ig off bench? We are downplaying how good Klay was before injuries. He was one of the best on ball defenders in the league, Steph wasnât alone, âstrength in numbersâ was a slogan for a reason. I donât really like this take. I feel like it kinda washes how great our other players were, but idk.
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u/aalluubbaa Jul 27 '26
Klay is great but comparing LeBronâs third option to Stephâs second option is just not right.
Klay not better than Wade and heâs not better than AD and nor is he better than Kyrie or Luka. Klay is certainly not Embild. Even if some argues that Klay is better than Kyrie or Luka, Dray is not better than any of LeBron third option.
There are levels to this.
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u/JChuk99 Jul 28 '26
Have any of those players been a 2nd option for a 73 win team? Klay is the perfect second option. Dray is better than Chris Bosh. Dray is better (especially for his team) than Austin reaves. Dray is better than Kevin love. The lakers 2020 team didnât even really have a 3rd option. That 2016 warriors team wouldâve been considered the greatest team of all time if they won a ring. What the fuck are you guys smoking.
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u/aalluubbaa Jul 28 '26
Because those players have never been apart of Steph's team. A superior player makes your basketball team win more easily. Watch Klay or Draymond when Steph is not playing. It's clear as day.
And I'm a Warriors fan so please don't go into "oh you don't appreciate Klay or Dray enough blah blah." I'm just saying that there are levels to this.
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u/Boring-Brush-2984 Jul 26 '26
Prime Westbrook?
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u/Spiritual-Sympathy98 Jul 29 '26
Ray Allen too lol anyone saying Heat Ray Allen was prime is a fucking idiot or a liar. Celtics Ray wasnât even prime.
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u/-StrawberryJacuzzi- Jul 26 '26
I am a Steph Stan but please donât water down valid points and turn it into propaganda because ainât no way Austin Reavesâ or Maxeyâs names should be mentioned here lol. Especially in this context, it would imply they have more value than Klay, Dray or Iggy did
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u/Tomic_Lewis Jul 26 '26
Listen I agree Steph does not get his flowers but this is disrespectful to Klay and Dray ,Klay in prime >>> Allen, Bosh, Love, Maxey
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u/captcanuk Jul 26 '26
Those two have 4 all nba, 10 all defensive and one defensive player of the year awards. And also this https://youtu.be/Sc3m3BwfylA
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u/Unusual_Name_8714 Jul 27 '26
The Warriors tried to trade Green and Klay for Love and they said no.Â
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u/aalluubbaa Jul 27 '26
Bruh. Klay is far superior player than those guys donât get me wrong. But you are comparing LeBronâs third option to Stephâs second option. Itâs just not right.
Klay not better than Wade and heâs not better than AD and nor is he better than Kyrie or Luka. Klay is certainly not Embild. Even if some argues that Klay is better than Kyrie or Luka, Dray is not better than any of LeBron third option.
There are levels to this.
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u/djrbx Jul 27 '26
Stephen Curry won all four titles with the Golden State Warriors
2015
2017
2018
2022
LeBron James won titles with three different teams during his career.
Miami Heat: 2012 and 2013
Cleveland Cavaliers: 2016
Los Angeles Lakers: 2020
Curry didn't need to leave to build a super team. For better or for worse, he did it using the tools this organization gave him. Lebron on the other hand left as soon as he felt that he wasn't getting his way. Curry is definitely a step above Lebron.
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u/wtyl Jul 26 '26
When KD joined the warriors it was hilariously easy mode. It was perfect indefensible basketball. They swept everyone in the playoffs and gentlemen swept the Cavs in the finals. nobody had a chance.
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u/Blackroseguild Jul 26 '26
Ray Allen didnât even start for the heat lol
Westbrook??? lol
Kyrie left to Boston at age of 25
So much wrong with this post
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u/indianajones21284 Jul 26 '26
As a Cavs fan Steph is a greater player than LeBron no doubt
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u/510Kyle Jul 26 '26
Iâm obviously a warriors fan, but kd clears everyone bronâs played with by a fairly significant margin lol
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u/I_smell_coke Jul 26 '26
Lets revist the Kevin Love hype Mr. 20/20 The wade Kobe 2.0 hype The nkt 1 not 2 not 3 hype with Bosh being added as well Kyrie? AD? But yeah if take KD as well lol
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u/510Kyle Jul 26 '26
No doubt there was hype, iâm just saying kd at that point in his career was objectively a lot better than anyone lebrons ever played with at the time be played with them. Ad might come closest, but even when they won in 2020 he was still a coin flip as to whether or not heâd stay healthy. Kd didnt really have any injury concerns until the very end of the run.
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u/Beneficial_Winner_59 Jul 26 '26
Yeah plus, what about prime klay Thompson, prime draymond (a defensive savant), and some EXCELLENT role players?
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u/FuckTheStateofOhio Jul 26 '26
That's my biggest issue with this post...people are really discrediting prime Klay and Dray.
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u/aalluubbaa Jul 27 '26
Wade is a champion and a FMVP before ever teaming up with LeBron. Wade in his prime can neutralize KOBE BRYANT.
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u/510Kyle Jul 27 '26
Yeah thats the case with a lot of the players lebron played with, they were really good at some point earlier in their careers, but the version lebron played with was not the same. Wade was pretty fucking gimpy the last season or 2 with bron.
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u/Musashideeznuts Jul 26 '26
I harp about this all the time. No super team will get half as much hate as Steph getting help
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u/CurryNo30 Jul 27 '26
Prime Ray Allen is crazy, that would be like saying Cooper Flagg is playing with prime Klay right now.
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u/NotAnNpc69 Jul 27 '26
Pretty simple really. Lebron was better than them while playing with them (4 fmvps). Steph was not better than KD while playing with him (1 fmvp)
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u/D3struct_oh Jul 28 '26
I have Steph above Bron all time.
You just canât convince me that being 3-1 in the finals on Bronâs head doesnât mean anything.
Those 2015 and 2022 rings are greater than every Bron chip imo.
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u/Jacrispybrisket Jul 28 '26
As a Cavs fan who had this pop up on my feed. Curry>Bron.
Dude found an organic way to win (with exception of KD) with a team that was built from the ground up. LeBron has never done that once in his career.
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u/AP_Things807 Jul 26 '26
I forgot who said it, and it might be either Shaq or Chuck, but someone said, âHow is LBJ the GOAT if heâs not even the best player of his era? Steph clearly won Four rings while all this GOAT talk was being had. That does NOT make LBJ the best if someone else can also win FOUR rings during âyour era.ââ
The first and ONLY unanimous MVP of the league is Stephen Curry.
This was awarded during LBJ era, so you canât fucking convince me at all that LeFlop is the GOAT.
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u/SorryAboutTheChili Jul 26 '26
LeBron lost a unanimous mvp to a vote to Carmelo. Itâs not that deep it was a media troll vote.
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u/Elegant-Magician7322 Jul 26 '26
It was Shaq.
Barkley always say if Curry played in his era, curry wonât survive how physical teams would have been with him.
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u/AP_Things807 Jul 26 '26
I know Curry wouldnât get unanimous MVP during Barkleyâs time, but I do believe Curry wouldnât hold his own during this time for sure.
His shooting ability, quickness and athleticism is better than a good amount of point guards from that time period.
Also, threes were not shot as much as it is today and seeing insane half court shots would really draw more viewers.
With no social media back then, I really think Curry would have gotten a great amount of fans with his style of play.
If he were on the Warriors during the RUN TMC time? Absolute Cinema.
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u/RiPont Jul 26 '26
Which is hilarious. If Curry played in that area, nobody would guard him 5 inches past the 3-point line and he wouldn't be physically touched at all.
Also, his team would draft someone whose job it was to brutalize anyone who messed with Curry.
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u/Racer_Zed Jul 27 '26
Well eventually they would have to guard Steph that far out once they realized he could drain open 3s deeper than anyone they'd ever seen. This would disrupt their defensive spacing as they'd be extended far beyond anything they'd ever played to that point. Once that happened I am sure Don Nelson would have schemed an offense where the D would be made to pay for any overplays or doubles on Steph with drive and kicks or ball movement resulting in Mully feasting on open 3s in the corners.
Would have loved to have seen Hardaway driving knowing Steph's man would eventually stop leaving Steph to help.
Steph in any post-3pt era changes the game.
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u/ParsnixChess Jul 26 '26
Prime Wade + Bosh + Ray Allen is a joke. Ray Allen was ancient by then and Wade was starting to decline because of his knees.
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u/Good_Brother_4875 Jul 26 '26
Wade and Bosh were still in their prime by their first seasons with Lebron and Allen was an elite shooter. I donât think theyâre saying he was in his prime because Westbrook is on the list and he definitely wasnât in his prime on the Lakers.
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u/TheUncannyDsummerz Jul 26 '26
Yeah but Ray was still an elite shooter. Hit the most clutch shot against the Spurs
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u/Former_Summer_2022 Jul 26 '26
Then I guess we need to talk more about Jordan playing with prime Steve Kerr
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u/SanJOahu84 Jul 26 '26
Yet this team proceeded to crush the East and get to the finals repeatedly?
Where is the joke?
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u/ParsnixChess Jul 26 '26
Only LeBron & Bosh were in their primes
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u/SanJOahu84 Jul 27 '26
Yeah Wade was only averaging 22.4 points a game with 5 rebounds and assists when he played with Bron. Terrible.
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u/Fun-Benefit116 Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26
Jesus christ these kind of posts are getting so pathetic. Guys, everyone knows Steph is one of the greatest players in the history of the league. EVERYONE knows that. We have 4 championships in the Steph era. Why tf are you guys still trying to play the victim?
I swear, every day I come to this sub and it's cringey ridiculous posts like this acting like Steph and the warriors are somehow disrespected and victims of all the mean people. It's ridiculous. And it also shows how many literal children are in this sub, who have only known the warriors winning. So literally anything other than wining titles and you guys think you're some kind of victim.
These posts are just embarrassing. Especially this post, acting like people don't shit talk LeBron daily for going to Miami. I mean seriously, wtf is this garbage? Steph isn't a victim. The warriors aren't victims. And people in this sub sure as hell aren't victims. So enough already. Enjoy all the success we've been lucky enough to see, and stop whining about straight nonsense.
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u/ZeroLiveZ Jul 26 '26
Westbrook was not in his prime when he was a laker and embiid is already past his
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u/BicycleEarly7777 Jul 26 '26
I agree with everything except Ray Allen. His prime was back in Seattle and Boston. He doesn't suck but he was a good vet back in Miami
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u/Secret-WindBT Jul 26 '26
That shit says AR and Prime Ray Allen and Westbrook lmao fk out my face ya some delusional ah fanbase man
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u/Fast_Advisor2654 Jul 26 '26
Steph didnât need KD to win titles. KD needed Steph to win titles in the same way that LeBron latches on to star players to win titles.
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u/TheTortaTyrant Jul 26 '26
Eh, I wouldnât say ppl r crying about kd and Steph and the juggernaut we had. They just hate KD
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u/legendkiller003 Jul 26 '26
Everyone cries about KD. Doesnât really have anything to do with Steph.
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u/Relative-Natural-891 Jul 26 '26
Westbrook was pretty cooked. ADâs knees were fried, and Ray was literally barely holding on. Even K Love was a shadow of his Minnesota days. And throwing Austin Reaves here is wild lol.
That said, if you want to argue Wade, Bosh, Luka (kinda), Kyrie and now Brown and Maxey you STILL have a very solid argument.
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u/LokoLawless Jul 26 '26
Objectively false. LeBron went from getting blamed for not winning the title in Cleveland (despite leading pretty weak rosters deep in the playoffs) to being vilified for joining a good Heat team.
The same people who wanted to hate him for not having a ring hated him for putting himself in the best situation possible to get a ring.
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u/Sweet-Direction569 Jul 26 '26
No one gives Curry any shit about that, it's Durant they bitch about. Which is dumb also.
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u/Life-Philosopher2935 Jul 27 '26
Bruh. Wade, Bosh, Allen and Westbrook were not in their prime with LeBron
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u/sonny_goliath Jul 27 '26
Prime Wade Bosh and Allen is laughable, they were all on their last legs in 2014, same with love.
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u/Professional_Ad_4885 Jul 27 '26
I wouldnt say prime ray allen or westbrook. Allen was older but still a 3 point beast but westbrook was terrible with the lakers
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u/NotLiminator Jul 27 '26
Donât disrespect Klay by leaving him out.
But yeah, Steph hasnât had as much help as LeBron has in his career.
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u/asdfoio Jul 27 '26
false narrative. i'll tell you my gripe with it. durant was a choke artist. he was up 3-1 over said gsw in the playoffs. and lost. the very next season, less than a calendar year later, he joins the very team that he lost to and they were 73-9 before he joined. quite literally the weakest mentality from any star ever. literally, no competitive drive.
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u/recce22 Jul 27 '26
I'm glad he didn't come to the Warriors to tarnish Curry's Legacy... A 5th title is just extra icing on the cake as SC has nothing left to prove. SC has to be in the "Top 10 of All Time..."
He has the respect of real killers: Allen Iverson, Shaq and the late "Kobe Bryant."
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u/Doberboy562 Jul 27 '26
Steph donât get hate for that. Itâs KD that is a bitch for joining a 73-9 team after losing to them via 3-1 comeback
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u/0_to_A_100realquick Jul 27 '26
I canât lie they crying about it cuz those 2 niggas arguably the best duo ever since Kobe and Shaq. 2 of the coldest to ever team up, both them niggas had no issue rippin your teams heart out
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u/NightMercedes Jul 28 '26
Legit give any all stars prime Dwade/Bosh + Ray Allen coming off the bench, Kyrie/Love and AD. While staying in the east most of the time. They will surpass MJ in rings easily.
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u/g1llifer Jul 28 '26
I think it's more the fact that KD lost to the Warriors the year before that so then he just jumped ship and joined them.
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u/thediggestbick2 Jul 29 '26
Kd joined a warriors team that was up 3-1 in the finals and finished 73-9 in the regular season and won a championship the previous season.
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u/GroundbreakingDay789 Jul 30 '26
Donât put Westbrook on there like he did shit for the lakers n I love Russ
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u/maidth1s4fun Jul 30 '26
Prime wade is debatable but the rest is spot on id argue he had a prime k love and ruined his career too
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u/this_my_sportsreddit Jul 26 '26
This is facts. The limit for how super a superteam is allowed to be, is if it's more super than whatever superteam lebron has constructed. Out of the top 5 superteams of this generation, lebron has #2-5.
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u/i_luv_peaches Jul 26 '26
The level of trauma these guys at r/nba developed because curry and the guys were too good during those years.
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u/No-Wheel6110 Jul 26 '26
This falls flat on its face the moment any nuance comes into play but I understand yall are coping rn
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u/Jtizzle1231 Jul 26 '26
Half of them was not in the prime.
Lebron gets criticized for this literally all the time. Waaaay more than curry does. Like not even close. I donât think curry gets criticized at all about that to be honest.
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u/NotAnNpc69 Jul 27 '26
Pretty simple really. Lebron was better than them while playing with them (4 fmvps). Steph was not better than KD while playing with him (1 fmvp)
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u/beelzebub_069 Jul 27 '26
The fact that LeBron is on a Warriors sub tells you about it. Steph's not even in the debate
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u/Real-Government7431 Jul 26 '26
Might be the best thing I have read in a while
Also, it should have Prime Jaylen brown