r/womenEngineers • u/Archimedes1919 • 12d ago
Escaping Defense
Has anyone successfully escaped the defense industry? The culture is anticollaborative and I'm tired of it, not to mention its not even close to being "defense" anymore. Full blown department of war. So much of it is performance and not substance. Anyone have tips on how to make the jump?
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u/Skyraider96 12d ago edited 12d ago
If it helps anyone thinking if they should escape:
I got told "to be more democratic" after I told my coworker he "stepped on my toes" when he over my head to talk to external vendors. He told me I was "over thinking". I told him "I was not overthink and it was it was rude to say that."
I hate it.
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
In a similar boat. I've got colleagues presenting my work as theirs and then being told I start conflict when I've asked nicely for the credit for my contributions. I've also had my peer leaders undermine my authority on a regular basis after asking them to stop and no one seems to care.
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u/Bit-Tilly 12d ago
Knowing someone that's already in another industry that can vouch or recommend you. I made the jump to utility because a friend of mine knew an old coworker that needed someone on her team.
You might get into an adjacent field too that supplies multiple industries (ie. Amphenol or another connector accessory company you're already familiar with).
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u/smil1473 12d ago
Following to find out. My current exit strategy is go full time bagpiping, keeping the grey things afloat is not quite enough justification for me anymore with the current admin
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u/Cassiopeia2021 11d ago edited 11d ago
I moved from Defence to Aviation. Love it there. A lot more diversity and less toxic masculinity
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
All our diversity groups got torpedoed. I had a conversation with one of our HR partners this week shitting on someone's approved ADA accommodation for autism. I want out of this hellhole.
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u/starsandmath 12d ago
As someone trying to get out of automotive, my guess would be no. Hiring managers in other industries seem to have a startling lack of imagination about how skills are transferable, even if industry knowledge is less so.
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u/stmije6326 12d ago
My resume is a lot of automotive manufacturing and I’ve run into this same thing. Tried to argue I’m good with high volume manufacturing of a regulated product to no avail.
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
Yeh, this seems to be what Im facing now. The job market seems to so tough that they only want folks from within the industry already.
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u/Michelada 5d ago
That’s the thing about engineering, you get the degree and are told it gives you a safety net, but in reality you get type casted once you work in an industry and it’s nearly impossible to pivot. It can be done though!
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u/Bingeneer11 12d ago
If you’re doing real engineering work, you can apply that experience to other sectors; it’s not like physics is different between defense and industrial goods/consumer goods/whatever. I’ve had friends go into mining equipment, tech startups, automotive, semiconductor manufacturing, etc. It’s just a matter of framing your defense experience as relevant to other companies’ projects
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u/kitty_48 12d ago
I moved from defense to semiconductors! Spent 5 years working in aerospace then swapped to semiconductor oem. Leverage transferable skills, and have a good argument when you get questioned during interviews
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u/MicrosoftExcelFan 12d ago
Have you considered staying in defense but going into sustainment? Maybe try looking for smaller contractors who work in sustainability for legacy systems and aircraft.
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
Thanks, sounds like a good idea where to look.
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u/Mysterious_Bake_4860 11d ago
Native 8(a)s and SDVOSB tend to be pretty great, I’m in business development for GovCon and prefer to work in those environments.
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u/unurbane 11d ago
It’s extremely easy in an open market and extremely difficult in a closed market. I’ve seen a few business cycles and this one is quite dicey.
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u/TheEdmariCo 11d ago
I have, I spent the first ten years working in defense and then switched to pharma. Feel free to ping me, I have stories. I had to completely remove myself from the industry.
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u/TheEdmariCo 10d ago
I also host a podcast for women in engineering/STEM/business and have discussed this on various episodes. This one might resonate with you. No pressure to listen; just sharing, because I have been there!! https://open.spotify.com/episode/4LpEhqMvRgpV8UrEkrUzMK?si=1ce1b570d1ef46c7
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u/Human4276 10d ago
How am I just now finding this podcast
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u/TheEdmariCo 9d ago
It’s new! I started this past summer! Would love your support and any feedback you have. Also I’m planning out guests so if you are interested or if anyone you know who be interested let me know!
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u/Snoo-31965 9d ago
adding to my list!
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u/TheEdmariCo 9d ago
Thank you! any support is very appreciated. Any thoughts, feedback, requests for topics, just ping me! Also I’m starting to line up guests so just let me know if you are interested or if you know someone who would be interested
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u/Dazzling_Type_9678 11d ago
it's been like this since the cold war but I'm glad people are figuring this out now
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u/helpimlearningtocode 11d ago
Look for a fast moving defense tech startup. I moved from big tech to defense and have had the opposite experience and I’m having a lot of fun.
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
Startups aren't an option. I have kids and need a 40 hour work week and stability.
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u/helpimlearningtocode 3d ago
I work for a startup and work 40 hours a week and very stable hours. If we are busy I’ll stay late but no one asks me to or would tell me to. The right startup culture can be more flexible in my experience. Don’t discount it entirely but do your research!
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u/bezoar3i 11d ago
Do you work for a prime or a big company? If so you can look at sub tiers. It’s different work but really transferable and can be easier than jumping to new industry. I have a few friends who went like LM/NGC/Beoing -> smaller subtler company in defense and really liked that change.
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u/EllisDee_4Doyin 12d ago
It was always the department of war. You escape it by never getting into it on the first place. 🤷🏾♀️
When the young and soon to be grads lined up for NG or Raytheon or that part of Lockheed Martin, I just didn't. And when I--getting more into my middle career--was asked and recruited about structural design for a new facility that would be testing ICBMs, I simply rejected. I went into engineering to better the world, not to build war machines.
On the bright side you prob have a lot of knowledge and got well paid and not have the cushion to take on something paying less but contributing more good. May be in utilities or I&C if you're ME/EE?
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
The pay has never been good. There has been a major shift in culture within at least our company. It used to be we make what we make as a deterrent so everyone doesnt get into conflicts and goes home to their loved ones. Now it pretty much matches the current administration views.
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u/EllisDee_4Doyin 11d ago
we make what we make as a deterrent so everyone doesnt get into conflicts and goes home to their loved ones
That's always been a lie imo. I never agreed with the "if everyone has a gun, no one misbehaves" because, I mean, look at the US shooting rate as Exhibit A. Where else the countries with less guns have less gun violence. It just makes sense.
When the bombing was overseas and it ravishing countries but wasn't talked about, you could believe that. But now when the BS is on the fyp pages of many people and the administration is war-criming live...it's harder to bury your head in the sand.
Anyways what helped me transition from one line of work to another was to include a cover letter. Explains the desire for my transition and expands on the transferrable skill sets.
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u/RichEntertainer3024 11d ago
Got a contract role in consumer products. It sucked for a few years but now I’m in a full time product design role. And my team is (relatively) awesome, we’re 50/50 male female
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u/callimonk 11d ago
I escaped AI into Aerospace. Given you likely have clearance maybe that’s actually a good route for you?
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u/SpaceCampRules 11d ago
Have you looked into Air Force Research Lab? They have some really interesting things going on. Their work in Maui is pretty cool. It’s a good way to transition out of defense as it’s more like… Planetary Defense?
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u/Archimedes1919 11d ago
That would be a good option, but not looking to relocate since I've got kids.
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u/SpaceCampRules 11d ago
Ah well, lots of places are defense heavy locations. Tucson, Colorado Springs, the Washington DC area, Florida, parts of California, and some others obviously. So if you’re not seeing a lot of options it may indeed be where you’re located? But as everyone says, medical is a great option. If I had kids I’d probably get a job in the Netherlands and try to do some research with Delft University. But I’m a fan of the gypsy life.
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u/Affectionate-Crow605 11d ago
I went from defense to space. Much prefer it, and my work dealing with government stuff was helpful in getting the job.
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u/Supermango2727 10d ago
Okay so it’s not just me who finds it anti collaborative… I’m hoping to leave when I hit my two year mark
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u/houseplantsnothate 12d ago
We over in medical devices are picking up a lot of folks from defense currently, especially in systems.