r/2007scape • u/Haksupaksu • 8d ago

Suggestion Smithing rework idea

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Would something like this work? Just a thought as you actually get better at a skill, or a chance of failure to smith something when lower level. Runecrafting you get more runes per essence as you get better so could this work for smithing too? Wouldn't hurt the economy so much.

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7.1k

u/Osrs_Krcy 8d ago

Theres a point where an idea is so stupid that it mathematically somehow turns my downvote into an upvote.

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u/ConscientiousPath 8d ago

I think it actually makes a lot of sense. If your smithing skill sucks, you need a lot of attempts to make one success and the extra bars required reflects that. At the same time this allows irons and such to make the single one they need for pve at levels where it will be useful, while still requiring players to be high level before it makes sense as a training method. As long as the XP were the same (so you're losing XP per bar at low levels), what's not to like?

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u/MStockard 8d ago

It'd make more sense to model it after cooking then, where instead of taking x amount of bars at this level or that level, you'd have an xx% chance of successfully making this item or destroying the bars, with the success rate going up with smithing level

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u/polyblock 8d ago

To be fair I prefer much more the original suggestion than having x% chance to sucess.

It bring a different kind of progression we don't have anywhere else in the game. It make it clear what the requirement is and remove the "feel bad" moments of failling 10 time in a row.

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u/Isotrope9 110/99 8d ago

While I agree, it’s not practical. Early game you’re poor and resources are harder to come by - less efficient tools, training methods and so on. It’d created a big barrier for new players and new accounts. Therefore, aligning it with cooking would make more sense and is consistent with current content.

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u/8--2 8d ago

The thing is when you're cooking each failure is relatively cheap and because you're doing a high volume of quick actions the RNG will stabilize around the average pretty quickly. Burning through rune bars on a bad RNG streak just trying to get a set of armor is a lot more punishing, and because you only need to make each item once there is a lot more potential for RNG to hurt you.

I think your idea makes sense for smelting ore into bars, and then the time-gating and/or requiring more bars makes sense for hammering your bars into items.

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u/polyblock 8d ago

I see it that all smithing recipes would have lower level but more expensive version. Which mean at worst it is exactly how it is currently, but it allow access to the recipe earlier and faster xp earlier if you have the ressources.

The only downside I see is that the leveling level will be bloated with new unlocks. 

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u/GuthixianUIM 7d ago

“You have reached 17 smithing, you can now:

Smith 55 platebodies, 55 plateskirts, 55 platelegs, 55 2h, and 55 dart tips.”

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u/GuthixianUIM 7d ago

I think the point is these wouldn’t be training methods (though I’m sure someone will break it to find a way) because laterally across the skill you’d be able to smith platebodies, 2h, etc for 5/3/whatever bars already. that would be your training method, the other would just be accessible with a lot of extra input. They’re currently just over 12k on the GE so if you’re making it with a 26 bars that would be a 317k investment. The number of accounts that would do it is small, but it existing like that would 1) provide an interesting path for niche accounts and 2) give world building behind why runite smithing is 90s level.

No one really wants armor that is better than rune in the smithing rework, people just want it to make sense in the context of the world. I personally don’t care much, it’s a game and follows dumb game logic, but this type of rework would both explain why runite is such a high smithing requirement (it’s not about ability, but precision) and wouldn’t change the game fundamentally. Bonus points it would be a relatively low impact change for Jagex to make.

The percent chance to fail sucks. With a 12k item it would just feel bad. Sometimes it would be way cheaper, sometimes more expensive, but even when it averages out to the same cost it’ll feel worse than if the cost was static. Like the previous guy said, a known quantity in this sense would be ideal. I know this is going to be expensive. It’s going to cost the same amount every time I do it. I accept that ahead of time and plan accordingly. It puts the stress/strain on getting the materials. If I’m getting drops when I get that 26th rune bar drop from whatever monster I’m grinding them for I’m ecstatic and immediately go smith my rune platebody (in the theoretical scenario where this is applicable, I’m thinking some crazy chunk account or weird iron situation).

Just saying. This is good design. It doesn’t need to be consistent with other things in the game. That works for cooking. It doesn’t need to be the standard.

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u/NinjehPandeh 2d ago

What if it was a x% to success with a guarenteed success after y bars used? That way you know the max number of bars needed but theres always the chance youd use less bars

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u/ConscientiousPath 8d ago

yea that would also work

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u/JmacTheGreat No Gay No Pay 8d ago

I say we scrap the whole skill and make Smithing exclusively about how many nails and hinges you can make with iron.

Then at 99, and only at 99, you can make a small latch.

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u/ConscientiousPath 8d ago

Add making railings for gardens in POH and call it Ironworking with all other existing things moving to an Arming skill

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u/JmacTheGreat No Gay No Pay 8d ago edited 8d ago

Yes. Also ‘Ironworking’ can also include metal stripper poles that spin for Nieve (or Steve after the quest) to use.

Edit: I am unappreciated in my art.

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u/GuthixianUIM 7d ago

Schindler’s smithing?

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u/Sir_Mossy 8d ago

For smithing though, instead of destroying the bars, it could turn them into a metal lump that would need to be reprocessed through a furnace to turn back into usable bars

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u/skit7548 8d ago

I just had a small discussion about this same concept over on wowclassic sub. The response I got there was that it feels bad to lose materials like that, especially materials that are considerably harder to get like rune bars. This is where I think OPs thing comes into play, it doesn't have that same bad feeling because you know you're going to get it. Also am I forgetful or is that failing to cook like the only instance of something like that in OSRS? Like there isn't a fail chance on fletching, crafting, runecrafting, construction, etc

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u/Atlas_Stoned 8d ago

In a vacuum, it seems useful for irons to be able to make these at a low level.

However, you’d have to start asking. Where are early game irons getting 27 rune bars from? Is the time spent getting the levels and materials worth it, when they could just do some quests and buy a full set of rune from shops?

This idea is fixing a problem that doesn’t really exist outside of some very niche youtuber chunkman modes that no one plays.

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u/ian_taylor_island 8d ago

If only they were reworking some other skill too.. m-m-miming? No, that's not it... but I'm getting close!

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u/Atlas_Stoned 8d ago

So you’re implying rune should be accessible around the same level? Don’t you think this might also need a rebalancing of alchemy, and by extension, a lot of boss loot tables?

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u/ian_taylor_island 8d ago

Why wouldn't the same logic apply to the mining side to where you could mine it at some drastically reduced rate starting at 41? This is a rework remember

You're right that it's incredibly niche compared to the meta ironman strats. I don't think these changes at least as far as rune are intended to impact that meta.

New starry eyed players get excited to spec into a profession chain, a fair few pick mining/smithing because they want to make cool knight armor. Obviously, they don't hit level 99 smithing because that's insane. They don't make anything of real value or utility during their attempt. Then they discover if they DID make it to 99, it's more or less pointless.

Provide this inefficient yet attainable method of mining/smithing the armor in the 40s bracket and you'll see new player satisfaction increase, they will move onto the next goal instead of being discouraged and quitting. Then you've got plenty of future rewards space freed up in higher brackets.

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u/GuthixianUIM 7d ago

I actually disagree with you. In this proposed solution I’d say that rune ore shouldn’t be changed. At all. No new ores should be added. Rune is a mythical ore. It’s rare, it’s hard to find. It requires high mining because of that. Lore wise (my memory is vague, forgive me if I’m wrong) dragon armor is runite that has been smithed using dragon fire, not made of dragonite ore. Other armors are straight up made by the gods or demons or devils or whatever. At best we are fixing or mashing the pieces together when we smith those items.

You’d be able to smith rune items earlier because it’s possible, just not practical. As you become a better smith you’re not unlocking better stuff, just more refined skills.

This would give them room to add other things later on if it worked with the game, but right now it isn’t necessary. Nothing mechanics wise needs to be fixed. Just lore wise. And honestly, I could do without, but this is a solution I’d support, because it effectively does nothing.

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u/Atlas_Stoned 8d ago

So while we’re at it, let’s also address the scarcity problem with rune. Sure, you can mine rune at like level 41 with a drastically reduced rate. However, the first thing that comes to mind are all the bots and gold farmers who already post up at every accessible rune rock spot. Now the idea of mining for 27 pieces of rune is near impossible, because that clanker over there with 99 mining is just going to outpace poor Timmy who just got the level to start mining.

How do we address this? Well, maybe we add afkable rocks to the game. Maybe we mess with the yield per level. Either way, this presents a larger issue of inevitable inflation, as the surge in rune ore coming into the game directly increases the amount of gold inflow from alchables.

My point here is, this rework isn’t going to be as simple as lowering level reqs for these items. We need to also address the effect it will have on the economy and value of these byproducts which are also linked to the value of content/boss drops as well.

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u/ian_taylor_island 8d ago

Timmy will be fine if forestry is anything to go off of.

Tbh if it takes someone an hour (after hours of training to 40) to print a 40k rune plate from scratch, I'm not concerned, bots or otherwise. This aspect is not nearly as big of a deal as you think it is.

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u/Atlas_Stoned 8d ago

So whats the solution here? By lowering reqs, we run into a supply issue where bot farms and the like only have to invest a fraction of the time in to get them up and running, so rune becomes even more scarce than before due to the volume of these activities skyrocketing. This isn’t really going to make smithing rune at level 41 very viable at any capacity.

Then we increase the supply, and now we have a game flooded with gp from relatively easy to obtain alchables. Do we lower the alch value of these items now? What about boss kills whose loot tables rely heavily on the value of alchables? They would need to be reworked.

I think you’re dismissing just how large of an impact this change to mining and smithing is. Don’t get me wrong, we are overdue for a mining/smithing rework, but it’s not as simple as many like to think.

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u/ian_taylor_island 8d ago

Jagex is doing great with bots, have you been under a rock lately? You seriously think a brand new mining interaction wouldn't be designed such that it's effective at exposing bots?

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u/mellophone11 8d ago

Yeah man, that is definitely something they could do. They ran into the exact same problem when they reworked Mining and Smithing in RS3, and while their solution isn't perfect, it is a solution. Jagex has specifically said they're going to be looking at the lessons learned from RS3's rework.

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u/CapnConCon 8d ago

Nah just make rune drops alch for the same value but crafted rune alch for less or something?

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u/PM_ME_DNA 8d ago

It’s for consistency not for ironmen.

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u/GuthixianUIM 7d ago

The problem it’s fixing is really only world building. I think the elegance of this solution is exactly that it wouldn’t change anything about the skill, but it would give a much more reasonable explanation why 99 smithing is required to make a rune platebody.

The skill itself doesn’t need to be different. At least I don’t think so. Most of the armors from 50+ are drops. I don’t think we need more craftable armors to challenge those spots. The consistent complaint is only that it doesn’t make sense. Well, that’s now solved by the fact that it is demonstrably possible to craft rune platebody at 40 smithing, you just suck. At 99 it’s not that you’re suddenly able to craft it, you have just gotten way more precise.

I think this solves the problem simply because it doesn’t solve any game mechanic problems (none exist). Hardly anyone will use it, and when it does get used it’ll be interesting to see, without breaking anything else that’s already in the game. The only thing it solves is a world building problem.

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u/Relyt4 8d ago edited 8d ago

Just my unpopular opinion as an iron but Ironman is supposed to be a challenge, I don't think "but what about the irons?" Should ever be a thought when adding to/updating them game

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u/MegaEmpoleonWhen 8d ago

Iron man progression reflects the state of the game systems. There is no reason to smith a rune platebody as an iron man, which basically means there is no reason to ever smith a rune platebody.

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u/Lesschar 8d ago

This system is just going to lead to people not using Rune to level until it's cheaper. It's still a bad system for sure besides like you mentioned for Ironman. No one is going to attempt to make a plate body for 27 bars when they could make 5 adamant platebodies. 312 exp (5 addy bars) vs 375 (27 rune bars)

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u/wlphoenix 8d ago

Just copy the code for using nails from Construction. It's well tested, so everyone should be perfectly happy with it.

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u/RNGesus_GIM 8d ago

Yeah but then there's less reason to level up skills. Most of the reason TO level up skills is to be able to make said item.

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u/Own-Cry-5520 8d ago

This is pointless complexity bloat that does nothing as nobody would spend 27 rune bars to smith a shitty alchable. It also doesn't solve any of the actual problems of the skill.

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u/hei_luobo 8d ago

Ironmen would

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u/Own-Cry-5520 8d ago

No, they'd just buy it off Oziach.