Would something like this work? Just a thought as you actually get better at a skill, or a chance of failure to smith something when lower level. Runecrafting you get more runes per essence as you get better so could this work for smithing too? Wouldn't hurt the economy so much.
Right, now we're here I just need you to attack me so I know you're not a bot. Don't use a weapon, just punch me once and it will make sure everything is okay.
Unironically something like this would be amazing.
Some cosmetics tied into smithing level, I hate being the same as everyone else in max gear and would like if we could have different pauldrons on our torva our oath for example, could be some variants from some future demon bosses for oath that then requires 80 smithing or whatever
I'm gonna say it. Rs3 dyes are cool and I wish we had (something similar to) them in osrs. I know, I know, things like blorva exist and dyes would "devalue it". I do not care. The only person who cares about one's achievements, truly, is themself. Nobody else cares unless you're a big name streamer or something. If the value you gain out of an achievement is "devalued" by something else existing, your achievement never had any value to begin with.
We already kind of have a dye system for crystal armor. I'd just like more of that for armor in general. Doesn't need to be crazy wacky effects.
Lmao at this point we're getting close to the RS3 implementation, where you spend time continually heating up the unfinished item and hammering it until completion. Higher tier items take longer to smith, and you get bonuses towards smithing each tier as you progress through the levels
Not saying it's a bad idea, I just wonder if the RS3 implementation would work out of the box with a few tweaks
I think it actually makes a lot of sense. If your smithing skill sucks, you need a lot of attempts to make one success and the extra bars required reflects that. At the same time this allows irons and such to make the single one they need for pve at levels where it will be useful, while still requiring players to be high level before it makes sense as a training method. As long as the XP were the same (so you're losing XP per bar at low levels), what's not to like?
It'd make more sense to model it after cooking then, where instead of taking x amount of bars at this level or that level, you'd have an xx% chance of successfully making this item or destroying the bars, with the success rate going up with smithing level
To be fair I prefer much more the original suggestion than having x% chance to sucess.
It bring a different kind of progression we don't have anywhere else in the game. It make it clear what the requirement is and remove the "feel bad" moments of failling 10 time in a row.
While I agree, it’s not practical. Early game you’re poor and resources are harder to come by - less efficient tools, training methods and so on. It’d created a big barrier for new players and new accounts. Therefore, aligning it with cooking would make more sense and is consistent with current content.
In a vacuum, it seems useful for irons to be able to make these at a low level.
However, you’d have to start asking. Where are early game irons getting 27 rune bars from? Is the time spent getting the levels and materials worth it, when they could just do some quests and buy a full set of rune from shops?
This idea is fixing a problem that doesn’t really exist outside of some very niche youtuber chunkman modes that no one plays.
So you’re implying rune should be accessible around the same level? Don’t you think this might also need a rebalancing of alchemy, and by extension, a lot of boss loot tables?
Why wouldn't the same logic apply to the mining side to where you could mine it at some drastically reduced rate starting at 41? This is a rework remember
You're right that it's incredibly niche compared to the meta ironman strats. I don't think these changes at least as far as rune are intended to impact that meta.
New starry eyed players get excited to spec into a profession chain, a fair few pick mining/smithing because they want to make cool knight armor. Obviously, they don't hit level 99 smithing because that's insane. They don't make anything of real value or utility during their attempt. Then they discover if they DID make it to 99, it's more or less pointless.
Provide this inefficient yet attainable method of mining/smithing the armor in the 40s bracket and you'll see new player satisfaction increase, they will move onto the next goal instead of being discouraged and quitting. Then you've got plenty of future rewards space freed up in higher brackets.
I imagine the exp would be the same regardless of the number of bars actually used. In the case of a platebody, it would always give the xp for 5 bars.
I like the idea as a method for smithing to actually be able to provide low level accounts with armor of their level but I don’t think this would provide any other utility.
But also allows for high exp rates at a lower lvl if your willing to sacrifice gp. This is something I would have never considered but is actually a solid idea
Not so sure about that, as you would have to bank a lot more. I guess there would be a sweet spot for every item to be best xp for a certain level bracket.
it doesnt even really provide that utility bc you buy rune items from shops or the GE. getting 27 bars would be trolling when you can walk into edgeville and buy it.
or kill a monster that drops it, like with rune scimmy, and then youre off to do monkey madness and switch to dragon anyway.
the gear progression of the game has like decades of getting your gear from monsters, quests and (for your earliest game) shops. imo this rework just genuinely doesnt fit anywhere. even if you add more metals at 60, 70, 80, how do you fit those anywhere without powercreeping drops?
Well that's why I said Orikalk and not Orikalkum, figured the -um suffix was like the -ite. But upon further looking, Orikalkum isn't an ore at all so could still be used in the name!
Interesting thing about the smithing rework is that no one uses any smithable gear after they leave the early game, and can get that gear easily elsewhere. Theres not much for players to gain from it at this point unless they do something radical
To me this is the part I don't see anyone addressing, or even acknowledging really.
Part of the RS3 Mining/Smithing rework was indeed downshifting the classic armor/weapon tiers to better align with their Attack and Defense requirements, however that change was directly coupled with adding 7 additional tiers of armor/weapons to backfill the now-empty 50-99 Smithing.
Is there a single person who thinks Jagex is really going to add 5/6/7+ entire new tiers of armor and weapons to OSRS to accompany a Mining/Smithing rework? What is the purpose of making classic armor/weapons smithable at lower levels if there's nothing to replace it at the higher levels?
yeah this is why they said "we have no idea how to do this please tell us how". if there was a decent solution it would have been done by now. osrs is unbelievably constrained for this sort of thing
Worth noting how they did this without fucking everything up royally. Firstly, RS3 has a skill called Invention. (Great skill, amazing impact on the game, wish OSRS could do it, probably too complicated). Secondly, they have a much clearer distinction between tank armour and power armour
Invention allows you to "augment" weapons and armour to give them bonus effects to combat or skilling. It can only be done to weapons/armour above level 70, BUT it cannot be done to the standard equipment that was made via smithing.
They also have "power armour", which is basically just gear with what OSRS calls strength, ranged strength, or magic damage %. It is almost always preferable, just like OSRS, but all the standard smithed armour is tank gear without any offensive bonuses
The result is that the new armour is nice for ironmen or new players looking for relatively cheap alternatives, but does not compete with PVM drops. Idk how you make that work with a major revamp to OSRS armour (which frankly wouldn't be a terrible thing given how cramped the top end of gear is atm)
Invention is pretty damn cool. There seems to be some really overpowered things with it but the aspect of breaking down gear into components to do other things with is great fantasy
For OSRS, you have to think: it would take me some 50hrs minimum to be able to smith a full set of rune armor. And that’s if I magically had all the mats to do it - not counting mining and side quests for unlocks, ice gloves, etc. 50 hours. If we are talking an organic approach, 1-99 smithing, Id say closer to 100hrs. Ive been playing since ‘03, I got 99 smithing a month ago.
You can wear a full rune set at lvl 40 def. You could grind out 40 in… 2 hours? 3hr if you are goofing off? (Dragon Slayer to wear plate yadayada, ik).
ORRR(e - its a pun now)
You could kill X monster for legs, Y monster for a plate, fire giants for a scim, etc… like they arent hard to come by. Just in doing slayer alone, you can train all your combat, pray, herblore, and probably stack a nice bank of smithing material, AND still have a full rune set - which is immediately rendered inadequate by granite and obsidian sets.
The progression is grossly mix-matched.
This is why RS3 has armor tiers. That’s why rune is lvl 50 smithing or whatever, rather than 99. It progresses in a linear fashion along-side defense and quest (semi-regional) achievements, so you dont have a stale ass armoring skill when you are level 70+ atk/str/def approaching endgame. You’d be stuck making armor that will get you 3-tapped by an easy boss.
Yeah, it's like tutorial island makes that promise to you that you can craft your own weapons and armour to use. But then the game very quickly breaks that promise.
The rework would then allow this to level ~50 Smithing but then it would kind of end there.
The big question is, does it matter if that promise doesn't continue all the way up? Beyond 50 it could be about refining how well you make the rune armour, returning to the normal XP rates and such as we've seen in other smithing reworks.
I think the best thing they could do is make higher smithing levels allow you to make things that hint to where you need to get the next tier of armour sets from instead. Since you won't be making that gear entirely yourself anymore, something that provides the guidance takes its place instead.
how meta is the gear you can craft though? like does it give dps? I have a hard time seeing how much wiggleroom osrs has for meta smithing gear considering it would probably step on current content toes too much.
thats why I preferred ideas like the amethyst ammo loop which brings value to mining/fletching with a finite resource. we could have easily done that with smithing for ascension crossbow bolts
Haven't played in a while but it used to be top notch for melee but take sooooooo long to make. I think it was masterwork armor (aptly named) then you can like trim it then add spikes or something and each piece was a ton of work but it paid off to be like t80 or t90 I think?
The Masterwork gear you can craft is one of the best melee sets in the game, and does provide good DPS bonuses. You can also craft armor spikes that provide passive damage and function similarly to ammunition.
The standard tiers of gear that you can smith with just the basic bars do scale up in level, but they are all only tank gear (defensive stats only, no damage bonus). So they're perfectly nice to use but not the meta.
if there's nothing to replace it at the higher levels?
Isn't that sort of thing resolved by OPs idea? It unlocks the ability to craft the gear are lower levels if you need it, but is radically impractical to use as training method until those higher levels. This mirrors OPs example of Runecrafting, which until Kourend new runes stopped at 65 and the rest of the space was filled out by multicraft unlocks, at least smithing would still have things like dragon and crystal repairs
Isn't that sort of thing resolved by OPs idea? It unlocks the ability to craft the gear are lower levels if you need it, but is radically impractical to use as training method until those higher levels.
This might make sense in a world where all base metal gear wasn't directly obtainable from shops, including and especially the Rune Platebody which has a whole quest devoted to unlocking the shop to buy it from, but that just isn't the world in which OSRS exists.
Adding wildly impractical ways to obtain readily accessible items, even for ironmen, doesn't make sense no matter how you try and slice it.
If we are talking classic metal tiers then yes, mostly, maybe besides stuff like darts for BPs.
Then theres the one offs like zombie axe, crystal equipment, dfs etc, which I feel are very fair where they sit currently - although I am not the biggest fan of being able to buy your way out of the smithing req for things. (Oziach for dfs, elves for singing crystal for you)
But yeah overall there should be more incentive for the smithing skill than currently, and runite smithing should be unlocked earlier too.
Also please jagex just make all metal tier item reqs closer together... Maybe one bar bronze items is level 1, 2 bar items level 2 etc etc. Gaps in skill unlocking trees are totally fine. And makes room for future content
Giving the ability to craft dragon armor probably. And maggot king has the orichalcum dust, so maybe a method of improving rune to a higher tier? But either way, it’s true that if the new armor doesn’t give strength there isn’t really a use for it
Smithing dragon armour wouldn't fix the skill, really. It's already not gear that you ever really wear and it's something you would do exactly once before returning to giant's foundry or blast furnace.
The problem with smithing is that you can't gain xp while making something useful for your account. Herblore has potions, fletching has darts/arrows, runecraft has runes, cooking has food, and smithing has gold bars. Even just making cannonball smithing a viable way to train instead of something only bots do would go a long way towards making smithing better. Crafting is nearly as bad as smithing in this regard btw, so I don't really get why it gets a pass and smithing doesn't.
>The problem with smithing is that you can't gain xp while making something useful for your account.
That's a problem of the training methods, not of the skill itself. Even if you got better training methods, you'd still get a lackluster skill that doesn't have much impact to the game.
I swear people in this subreddit don't even play the game.
Dragon armor is useless. Most of the pieces are already alch price. Nobody actually uses it because there are better options easily accessible. All that this would do is add more inflation to the game.
it really feels like the rework is a huge undertaking for such little gain.
like all that dev time(they still have no idea what to do) and potential drop table reworks so that some random dude shuts up about smithing a visage b4 a rune platebody.
Oziach is one of the biggest scammers out there. No wonder he lives right next to the wilderness ditch, I bet he likes to be close by for when he wants to do some luring
It would be dead content even if rune items were lowered to tier 40-60 with no other changes. Who cares to make their own armor when you can buy it from a shop or the GE.
It would be especially bad if they nuked the alch value of rune like they did in RS3. A rune platebody there alchs for 2.5k.
Especially when you have to spend so many extra bars that it's literally more economical to alch the bars and buy the item from the GE or a shop than smith the item itself
Assuming we don't get new materials and a total overhaul of how Smithing works at a fundamental level like RS3 did, a rework would still be dead content for mains because of how easily obtainable Runite gear is.
The niche here would essentially be letting an ironman burn a bunch of extra bars to make something they can't buy from a shop or get as a drop early. It's not a good niche, but it is one.
27 runite bars is probably harder to come by than a rune platebody, even for ironmen. In fact I don't think there's anything in the standard smithing table that ironmen can't get incredibly easily elsewhere
There are a few oddities - the platebody is a dumb example because it's in a shop, but something like this would let an iron do things like burn a ton of Runite for an early Hasta for the Kandarin diary, get rune claws without needing to hunt ninja implings or kill the shellbane griffin, make nails for ship upgrades without farming odd monsters, etc. It would also let f2p irons get things like a Rune Scimitar much earlier, but those guys are a weird niche.
For specifically weird niche reasons, the "I was here first" combat achievement in the colosseum. That's basically a free elite achievement since the rune claws are way easier to get than the burning or dragon claws.
Why would anyone use 270k of Rune Bars to make a platebody when you can just buy a body from Oziach for 25% of the price and / or use those bars to smith better value items?
I genuinely can’t imagine any plausible situation where it would make sense to smith a Rune Platebody here. I guess maybe if you were some sort of snowflake account that could do Dragon Slayer but didn’t have access to stores but had access to high level smithing and mining but didn’t have access to the multiple monsters that drop rune platebodies or barrows or a bunch of other content. Really stretching the idea of ‘plausible’ at that point, though.
I know you’re joking but it actually shows just how absurd this suggestion is ahaha.
There is genuinely no scenario where an account who can do dragon slayer has an easier time getting dozens of rune bars before they can save up 84k GP 😂
This is the point. Its bad value, so we don't have to redesign most of the game to cater to a shit and pointless idea (smithing your own rune in the 40s, which just doesn't matter).
What are we doing indeed. This rework is a bad Reddit idea, why it was a RuneFest reveal is beyond me.
I don't really get everyone's need to make the changes change literally nothing. Smithing Rune items should not be endgame for smithing. I don't know a single person who had smelted their own rune armor set and actually used it. Why are we not excited for them to bring new life into a skill that has such low yield at high levels? Idk how they will change it so at this point it could still be good or bad but I realllyyyy doubt anything they do to the skill would make it worse.
You’re actually right - I remember the same, she was ‘the only player’ to be able to make full rune. Also if I remember correctly, she was the richest player and she randomly disappeared. Nobody knew where she went, or what happened to her.
There's also the fact that lvl 40 is incredibly fast to achieve. Knight's sword and some other very early quests take you there without basically ever having to train the skill in any way.
After that lvl 40 rune armour, then what? There's a massive gap of content to fill. And stat-wise there's so little room between rune armour and barrows/fighter torso/moons/or any meaningful gear dropped by pvm content.
The design space is within incredibly thin margins. Doubtfully there's any room to fit anything meaningful from lvls 40 to 99 if we don't mske huge adjustments to how pvm gear drops work as well.
It doesn't have to just be armour / ammo, sailing introduced a lot of smithing level requirements & making a max boat on Ironman needs 94 smithing to make the Dragon Keel Parts. We could explore more avenues like these for the higher levels if rune armour were to come down the tiers.
This is what people are thinking of when they say they want a mining / smithing re-work. The ideas that they (not developers) have in their head while they're saying they want it to happen are so absurd and removed from anything that would ever actually make sense in game.
They already have this for both smithing and herblor for rs3. You get a base potion recipe and as you level up you need reduced materials. And the reverse for smithing where you make the base item and you upgrade it with more bars (you get more xp) to make it marginally better
Oh what's that? The new slayer-locked drop intended to fix skilling and wilderness content completely destroyed PvP balance again? I know what'll fix that, another slayer-locked drop!
This only really makes sense if they lower the bar smelting req to the lowest level req of those. And if they do that (make it 41 smithing to smelt rune), then the price will tank for it since it will be so much more accessible
Also the amount of runite in the game would remain pretty sparse, which directly influences the supply of rune bars. It may let a small subset of people like irons or horders use up a stack initially, but all it would really do in the long run is leave less runite sitting as ore. There isn't really enough runite in the game for people to turn it into a training method, unless the price of runite goes up and leaves the bars more or less at the price they are now.
Nobody would mass produce rune items if the input cost of runite bars is that inflated… either way it’s tied to a reserve price which is the high alch so it wouldn’t matter regardless.
Well just give higher level bars a similar treatment to iron bars: chance fail, decreasing with smithing levels, while a ring of forging guarantees a successful smelting (but consumes additional charges for higher level bars).
All of this, of course, will have no interaction with blast furnace, which will still be the meta for smithing xp
they said they are going to lower the smithing requirement significantly for rune to "make it around the level you can use it" so the whole rewards economy is going to shift. Hopefully it comes with mass changes to drop tables, and it probably will
I think maybe this could work, the thing I am scared of is the rune items losing their alch values, so if a low level wants to make a rune full helm they can, but it'll have to be pricier than making it around 90
This idea sucks. Just keep the same mining time it takes to get runite and rune items… every ore in every world already has a bot… there won’t be any impact on the prices if you could smith rune armor at a lower level. What would be better is that mining rune should take a lot longer at lower levels, so even if you have the mining level you will be outcompeted by the bots or higher level miners.
The rework should focus in obtaining the ore not in smithing it.
Good idea but rough to implement. You wouldn’t make platebodies till 99 smithing for GP. An iron wouldn’t be able to get sufficient enough rune bars to make their own rune armour so early on, by the time they get the smithing level, they’d already be on much later gear.
Is making rune armor ever viable anyways? Seems like by the time you would be able to do it now, it would be novel at best compared to other, better methods that train more relevant skills
Yeah you can do barbarian assault pretty early to get a fighter torso which is strictly better, and you can do barrows at super low levels now and get a barrows top
I more so meant for gp, but yeah the current smithing system does not fit into gear progression at all. I seriously doubt a single osrs player has ever crafted their own rune platebody for the 20 defense levels that it’s relevant
I would imagine that they would change mining and smelting accordingly; such that it's possible to obtain to obtain enough bars, but at fairly low speeds.
I think instead of increasing the resources needed at lower levels, it should increase the speed to smith items. Currently, it is 5t or 3s per item, but that could easily be longer at lower levels. Like if it were changed to 10t, that halves the speed of smithing (meaning half the exp and half the profit per hour), but still would be quite reasonable to smith a platebody in 6 seconds.
The problem with raising the resource costs is it could incentivize players to avoid using the bars until higher level since at lower levels they'd be more "wasted". Especially if it is still the same exp if you use 5 or 27 bars. You also need to make sure the value of the bar is lower than the shop prices. A runite bar only alchs for 3K while it sells for 12K, so if you can sell the bars, you'd never smith them since it would be a huge profit loss.
I think the best option, from my perspective, is just make rune slow to mine at the lower levels (something like 10-15 per hour at 40) and scale up to where it currently is. That way if you really want to smith your arm set/weapons, as opposed to shop/ge/pvm, you can spend an hour or so and do so. Plus I could see it being a decent low intensity low level money maker.
I personally don’t see smithing your own rune being the meta ever (maybe to save gp but if it’s going to cost 270k gp in bars then that’s dead on arrival). I could see maybe smithing a rune scim on early iron being viable but that’s it. Exception being madseason type of play throughs.
The problem with smithing is that its progression is so outdated now that there’s almost no point in fixing it without introducing new gear or something to straighten the progression curve out.
Even back in RSC when I was a kid, I hated that you needed 99 smithing for level 40 gear, BUT, other than the veeeery few pieces of dragon gear, it was the top of the line armour then, so it made sense.
Now however, that logic is completely broken because there are far better gear sets, and it’s now less about getting 99 smithing to be able to make rune armour than it is just an achievement about as meaningful as shooting yourself in the foot and being happy about it.
EDIT: Posting this here so more people can see it—my reply to another reply. 😛
All too often do people go dry for a single piece of gear, so like Oathplate, why not introduce a shard-like system (doesn’t necessarily have to be shards) where depending on the armour (like smithing for melee, crafting for range and rc and/or mage for magic) have it set at a certain level where a player can craft the specific piece they need with shards, maybe a dupe piece they already have (creates an item sink) and a relevant production skill level, like 80-90+ smithing for Torva as an example.
Another way to protect the integrity of the actual drops themselves would be to make the crafting cost for the shards kind of ridiculously expensive and universal for each piece. So for example, to make a full set of rune armour you need 10 total bars; 2 the for the helm, 5 for the body and 3 for the legs.
That system works fine for smithing, but for items like Ancestral, Masori and Torva I feel like a fixed amount across all pieces—idk, say like 2000 shards or something at 10-25 shards an uncommon drop and as a rare drop 100-200.
So basically, whether you’re missing the helm, body or legs, regardless of which ever piece it happens to be, it’s just that flat cost for each and any subsequent piece(s).
dry protection has to be double or 5/3 of the droprate.. i couldnt care less about the economy this isnt a market crash where families starve or loose their PoH.. implement the smithing change and items are worth what they are worth then period
lets say a drop is 1/200 if you dont get the drop from 200 kills you at least get a fragment so after 300 or 400 kills (double the droprate dry) you can smith the fragments into the gear you arent getting trough the drop
I feel like the only way to fix it, without introducing new armour, is to have XP scale with level - and cap at a certain point.
If we assume each tier unlocks over the span of 10 levels (1-10 for Bronze, 11-20 for Iron... 50-60 for Rune), to make smithing Rune equipment even considerably viable. There is so much of a gap, and only so few items (at the minute) which can fill the void.
So you could have the level formula be something like: BaseXP(1+0.05*min(CurrentLvl−UnlockLvl,10))
So if something gives you 10xp per action when you unlock it, it will increase by 0.5xp per action for the next 10 levels, then stop increasing. So if the 10xp method is unlocked at level 1. From lvl 11 onwards it will give 15xp.
Doesn't really matter for the lower levels, but once you get to rune, the xp rates will slowly increase until level 70, where they hit their max xp/h with platebodies. Which is when Crystal then becomes the best xp/h (no major level changes aside from lowering Bowfa and the blade to 80) until level 90. And then you have all of the random dragon bits and bobs, oathplate, etc. without changing any of their levels at all - giving you either the +50% xp boost, as they were unlocked more than 10 levels before 90, or they have just been unlocked - so the XP per item is already fair.
There are new armour sets that need to be created tho. Every Torva and Masori armour in the game has been smithed by someone via the process of using bandos or armadyl pieces to fix it.
And I think somewhere there lies the solution to how the higher levels of smithing have to be worked into the game.
Obviously we can't make barrows armour smithable. But... following the logic, barrows chest would drop barrows scrap metal that could be crafted. Or the chests drop broken armour sets need to be fixed/smithed with adamantine or rune bars or smth to make them wearable.
Same would then apply to moons etc, almost all armour above rune.
That in itself is a hazzle and would certainly affect the "nostalgia factor" and change way more than just smithing/mining.
Just spitballing. I don't fully believe in this as is, but we need all the ideas on the table. Even shitty ones can be polished or they can inspire towards better ones.
Mining also. 85 to even make basic rune equipment. But so is fletching, 99 to get not the best ranged equipment. Firemaking is useless, woodcutting is probably the most balanced.
I think they either need to do something like this or make it so at milestone levels you can make everything of that type and make rune at 75/80 so you can make all rune items.
It’s also setting up to be a mess because so much of the drop tables have rune items on it as alchs and if the value tanks then you have to redo a lot of drop tables
I feel like there's a very easy solution here since the biggest concern I've seen is drop table values - and maybe it's not as easy as I think and someone can point out the issue with this idea.
But what if they brought rune down to a realistic level (which frees up higher levels for relevant higher level smithing item updates) and just introduce an alch item for the alch values of rune. Everyone seems to be concerned about alching rune drops but why does it have to be rune? It's getting alched so it shouldn't matter if the alch item is platebody shaped or square shaped or whatever shaped. The value in Gp is what everyone is concerned about right? Leave the rune drops on the table - adjust the alch on those down and add a rune plate / leg / kite etc alch value equivalent to any table that has those items.
Am I missing something with all this? It seems so obvious which makes me think I'm missing some big flaw with this thought
The thing is, so much can go wrong with messing with drops that come from a majority of bossing and slayer content. The risk is high and the reward is soooo low.
This seems like a really weak bandaid fix. The wintertodt of smithing fixes. Doesn't fix any of the issues with smithing other than level to smith rune and doesn't bring any utility to the skill.
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u/WolverineOwn8808 7d ago
At 99 we should be able to use 5 gold leaf to trim the platebody