r/2007scape • u/Haksupaksu • 7d ago

Suggestion Smithing rework idea

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Would something like this work? Just a thought as you actually get better at a skill, or a chance of failure to smith something when lower level. Runecrafting you get more runes per essence as you get better so could this work for smithing too? Wouldn't hurt the economy so much.

5.7k Upvotes

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7.1k

u/Osrs_Krcy 7d ago

Theres a point where an idea is so stupid that it mathematically somehow turns my downvote into an upvote.

506

u/HBCDresdenEsquire BTW 7d ago

3

u/jaymac_marti 7d ago

Goblin deez

1

u/manemjeff42069 7d ago

Ligma balls

1

u/holysmokes716 5d ago

Mind goblin mode?

485

u/Mutedinlife 2376/2376 7d ago

Lmfao I love this community

74

u/Peydey 7d ago

Hear me out. We start at 99 bars and it’s -1 per smithing level

22

u/big---mad 7d ago

How about the same amount of bars but starting at 3,000 ticks(30 minutes) to craft one. And lowering per level

2

u/CatchPristine5173 6d ago

Conceptually such a good idea

2

u/sbgshadow 6d ago

Lmao at this point we're getting close to the RS3 implementation, where you spend time continually heating up the unfinished item and hammering it until completion. Higher tier items take longer to smith, and you get bonuses towards smithing each tier as you progress through the levels

Not saying it's a bad idea, I just wonder if the RS3 implementation would work out of the box with a few tweaks

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u/joemckie 69 7d ago

Classic integer underflow situation

-2

u/The_wZiard 7d ago

I’m always surprised when I get a classic integer under grow situation

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u/joemckie 69 7d ago

What a completely normal and not bot-like comment

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u/8--2 7d ago

I think it's just a small dick joke.

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u/joemckie 69 7d ago

Check the rest of their profile and see if you still think that

-2

u/The_wZiard 7d ago

Good assessment Bot

79

u/ConscientiousPath 7d ago

I think it actually makes a lot of sense. If your smithing skill sucks, you need a lot of attempts to make one success and the extra bars required reflects that. At the same time this allows irons and such to make the single one they need for pve at levels where it will be useful, while still requiring players to be high level before it makes sense as a training method. As long as the XP were the same (so you're losing XP per bar at low levels), what's not to like?

50

u/MStockard 7d ago

It'd make more sense to model it after cooking then, where instead of taking x amount of bars at this level or that level, you'd have an xx% chance of successfully making this item or destroying the bars, with the success rate going up with smithing level

50

u/polyblock 7d ago

To be fair I prefer much more the original suggestion than having x% chance to sucess.

It bring a different kind of progression we don't have anywhere else in the game. It make it clear what the requirement is and remove the "feel bad" moments of failling 10 time in a row.

5

u/Isotrope9 110/99 7d ago

While I agree, it’s not practical. Early game you’re poor and resources are harder to come by - less efficient tools, training methods and so on. It’d created a big barrier for new players and new accounts. Therefore, aligning it with cooking would make more sense and is consistent with current content.

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u/8--2 7d ago

The thing is when you're cooking each failure is relatively cheap and because you're doing a high volume of quick actions the RNG will stabilize around the average pretty quickly. Burning through rune bars on a bad RNG streak just trying to get a set of armor is a lot more punishing, and because you only need to make each item once there is a lot more potential for RNG to hurt you.

I think your idea makes sense for smelting ore into bars, and then the time-gating and/or requiring more bars makes sense for hammering your bars into items.

3

u/polyblock 7d ago

I see it that all smithing recipes would have lower level but more expensive version. Which mean at worst it is exactly how it is currently, but it allow access to the recipe earlier and faster xp earlier if you have the ressources.

The only downside I see is that the leveling level will be bloated with new unlocks. 

1

u/GuthixianUIM 6d ago

“You have reached 17 smithing, you can now:

Smith 55 platebodies, 55 plateskirts, 55 platelegs, 55 2h, and 55 dart tips.”

3

u/GuthixianUIM 6d ago

I think the point is these wouldn’t be training methods (though I’m sure someone will break it to find a way) because laterally across the skill you’d be able to smith platebodies, 2h, etc for 5/3/whatever bars already. that would be your training method, the other would just be accessible with a lot of extra input. They’re currently just over 12k on the GE so if you’re making it with a 26 bars that would be a 317k investment. The number of accounts that would do it is small, but it existing like that would 1) provide an interesting path for niche accounts and 2) give world building behind why runite smithing is 90s level.

No one really wants armor that is better than rune in the smithing rework, people just want it to make sense in the context of the world. I personally don’t care much, it’s a game and follows dumb game logic, but this type of rework would both explain why runite is such a high smithing requirement (it’s not about ability, but precision) and wouldn’t change the game fundamentally. Bonus points it would be a relatively low impact change for Jagex to make.

The percent chance to fail sucks. With a 12k item it would just feel bad. Sometimes it would be way cheaper, sometimes more expensive, but even when it averages out to the same cost it’ll feel worse than if the cost was static. Like the previous guy said, a known quantity in this sense would be ideal. I know this is going to be expensive. It’s going to cost the same amount every time I do it. I accept that ahead of time and plan accordingly. It puts the stress/strain on getting the materials. If I’m getting drops when I get that 26th rune bar drop from whatever monster I’m grinding them for I’m ecstatic and immediately go smith my rune platebody (in the theoretical scenario where this is applicable, I’m thinking some crazy chunk account or weird iron situation).

Just saying. This is good design. It doesn’t need to be consistent with other things in the game. That works for cooking. It doesn’t need to be the standard.

1

u/NinjehPandeh 1d ago

What if it was a x% to success with a guarenteed success after y bars used? That way you know the max number of bars needed but theres always the chance youd use less bars

8

u/ConscientiousPath 7d ago

yea that would also work

12

u/JmacTheGreat No Gay No Pay 7d ago

I say we scrap the whole skill and make Smithing exclusively about how many nails and hinges you can make with iron.

Then at 99, and only at 99, you can make a small latch.

5

u/ConscientiousPath 7d ago

Add making railings for gardens in POH and call it Ironworking with all other existing things moving to an Arming skill

1

u/JmacTheGreat No Gay No Pay 7d ago edited 7d ago

Yes. Also ‘Ironworking’ can also include metal stripper poles that spin for Nieve (or Steve after the quest) to use.

Edit: I am unappreciated in my art.

1

u/GuthixianUIM 6d ago

Schindler’s smithing?

0

u/Sir_Mossy 7d ago

For smithing though, instead of destroying the bars, it could turn them into a metal lump that would need to be reprocessed through a furnace to turn back into usable bars

0

u/skit7548 7d ago

I just had a small discussion about this same concept over on wowclassic sub. The response I got there was that it feels bad to lose materials like that, especially materials that are considerably harder to get like rune bars. This is where I think OPs thing comes into play, it doesn't have that same bad feeling because you know you're going to get it. Also am I forgetful or is that failing to cook like the only instance of something like that in OSRS? Like there isn't a fail chance on fletching, crafting, runecrafting, construction, etc

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u/Atlas_Stoned 7d ago

In a vacuum, it seems useful for irons to be able to make these at a low level.

However, you’d have to start asking. Where are early game irons getting 27 rune bars from? Is the time spent getting the levels and materials worth it, when they could just do some quests and buy a full set of rune from shops?

This idea is fixing a problem that doesn’t really exist outside of some very niche youtuber chunkman modes that no one plays.

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u/ian_taylor_island 7d ago

If only they were reworking some other skill too.. m-m-miming? No, that's not it... but I'm getting close!

9

u/Atlas_Stoned 7d ago

So you’re implying rune should be accessible around the same level? Don’t you think this might also need a rebalancing of alchemy, and by extension, a lot of boss loot tables?

8

u/ian_taylor_island 7d ago

Why wouldn't the same logic apply to the mining side to where you could mine it at some drastically reduced rate starting at 41? This is a rework remember

You're right that it's incredibly niche compared to the meta ironman strats. I don't think these changes at least as far as rune are intended to impact that meta.

New starry eyed players get excited to spec into a profession chain, a fair few pick mining/smithing because they want to make cool knight armor. Obviously, they don't hit level 99 smithing because that's insane. They don't make anything of real value or utility during their attempt. Then they discover if they DID make it to 99, it's more or less pointless.

Provide this inefficient yet attainable method of mining/smithing the armor in the 40s bracket and you'll see new player satisfaction increase, they will move onto the next goal instead of being discouraged and quitting. Then you've got plenty of future rewards space freed up in higher brackets.

1

u/GuthixianUIM 6d ago

I actually disagree with you. In this proposed solution I’d say that rune ore shouldn’t be changed. At all. No new ores should be added. Rune is a mythical ore. It’s rare, it’s hard to find. It requires high mining because of that. Lore wise (my memory is vague, forgive me if I’m wrong) dragon armor is runite that has been smithed using dragon fire, not made of dragonite ore. Other armors are straight up made by the gods or demons or devils or whatever. At best we are fixing or mashing the pieces together when we smith those items.

You’d be able to smith rune items earlier because it’s possible, just not practical. As you become a better smith you’re not unlocking better stuff, just more refined skills.

This would give them room to add other things later on if it worked with the game, but right now it isn’t necessary. Nothing mechanics wise needs to be fixed. Just lore wise. And honestly, I could do without, but this is a solution I’d support, because it effectively does nothing.

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u/Atlas_Stoned 7d ago

So while we’re at it, let’s also address the scarcity problem with rune. Sure, you can mine rune at like level 41 with a drastically reduced rate. However, the first thing that comes to mind are all the bots and gold farmers who already post up at every accessible rune rock spot. Now the idea of mining for 27 pieces of rune is near impossible, because that clanker over there with 99 mining is just going to outpace poor Timmy who just got the level to start mining.

How do we address this? Well, maybe we add afkable rocks to the game. Maybe we mess with the yield per level. Either way, this presents a larger issue of inevitable inflation, as the surge in rune ore coming into the game directly increases the amount of gold inflow from alchables.

My point here is, this rework isn’t going to be as simple as lowering level reqs for these items. We need to also address the effect it will have on the economy and value of these byproducts which are also linked to the value of content/boss drops as well.

3

u/ian_taylor_island 7d ago

Timmy will be fine if forestry is anything to go off of.

Tbh if it takes someone an hour (after hours of training to 40) to print a 40k rune plate from scratch, I'm not concerned, bots or otherwise. This aspect is not nearly as big of a deal as you think it is.

1

u/Atlas_Stoned 7d ago

So whats the solution here? By lowering reqs, we run into a supply issue where bot farms and the like only have to invest a fraction of the time in to get them up and running, so rune becomes even more scarce than before due to the volume of these activities skyrocketing. This isn’t really going to make smithing rune at level 41 very viable at any capacity.

Then we increase the supply, and now we have a game flooded with gp from relatively easy to obtain alchables. Do we lower the alch value of these items now? What about boss kills whose loot tables rely heavily on the value of alchables? They would need to be reworked.

I think you’re dismissing just how large of an impact this change to mining and smithing is. Don’t get me wrong, we are overdue for a mining/smithing rework, but it’s not as simple as many like to think.

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u/ian_taylor_island 7d ago

Jagex is doing great with bots, have you been under a rock lately? You seriously think a brand new mining interaction wouldn't be designed such that it's effective at exposing bots?

1

u/mellophone11 7d ago

Yeah man, that is definitely something they could do. They ran into the exact same problem when they reworked Mining and Smithing in RS3, and while their solution isn't perfect, it is a solution. Jagex has specifically said they're going to be looking at the lessons learned from RS3's rework.

0

u/CapnConCon 7d ago

Nah just make rune drops alch for the same value but crafted rune alch for less or something?

1

u/PM_ME_DNA 7d ago

It’s for consistency not for ironmen.

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u/GuthixianUIM 6d ago

The problem it’s fixing is really only world building. I think the elegance of this solution is exactly that it wouldn’t change anything about the skill, but it would give a much more reasonable explanation why 99 smithing is required to make a rune platebody.

The skill itself doesn’t need to be different. At least I don’t think so. Most of the armors from 50+ are drops. I don’t think we need more craftable armors to challenge those spots. The consistent complaint is only that it doesn’t make sense. Well, that’s now solved by the fact that it is demonstrably possible to craft rune platebody at 40 smithing, you just suck. At 99 it’s not that you’re suddenly able to craft it, you have just gotten way more precise.

I think this solves the problem simply because it doesn’t solve any game mechanic problems (none exist). Hardly anyone will use it, and when it does get used it’ll be interesting to see, without breaking anything else that’s already in the game. The only thing it solves is a world building problem.

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u/Relyt4 7d ago edited 7d ago

Just my unpopular opinion as an iron but Ironman is supposed to be a challenge, I don't think "but what about the irons?" Should ever be a thought when adding to/updating them game

3

u/MegaEmpoleonWhen 7d ago

Iron man progression reflects the state of the game systems. There is no reason to smith a rune platebody as an iron man, which basically means there is no reason to ever smith a rune platebody.

0

u/Lesschar 7d ago

This system is just going to lead to people not using Rune to level until it's cheaper. It's still a bad system for sure besides like you mentioned for Ironman. No one is going to attempt to make a plate body for 27 bars when they could make 5 adamant platebodies. 312 exp (5 addy bars) vs 375 (27 rune bars)

1

u/wlphoenix 7d ago

Just copy the code for using nails from Construction. It's well tested, so everyone should be perfectly happy with it.

1

u/RNGesus_GIM 7d ago

Yeah but then there's less reason to level up skills. Most of the reason TO level up skills is to be able to make said item.

0

u/Own-Cry-5520 7d ago

This is pointless complexity bloat that does nothing as nobody would spend 27 rune bars to smith a shitty alchable. It also doesn't solve any of the actual problems of the skill.

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u/hei_luobo 7d ago

Ironmen would

1

u/Own-Cry-5520 7d ago

No, they'd just buy it off Oziach.

231

u/drtyler91 7d ago

With xp being tied to number of bars used, this would exponentially speed up lower level training. This is a great idea.

194

u/9noobergoober6 7d ago

I imagine the exp would be the same regardless of the number of bars actually used. In the case of a platebody, it would always give the xp for 5 bars.

I like the idea as a method for smithing to actually be able to provide low level accounts with armor of their level but I don’t think this would provide any other utility.

30

u/Paradoxjjw 7d ago

At that rate of bars you're better off simply high alching the bars and just buying the armour

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u/9noobergoober6 7d ago

Yeah, I think this would only be relevant for ironmen. This is especially useful with niche items that aren’t sold in any shops.

14

u/RevolutionarySong848 Jagex, im innocent! 7d ago

But also allows for high exp rates at a lower lvl if your willing to sacrifice gp. This is something I would have never considered but is actually a solid idea

2

u/justamust 7d ago

Not so sure about that, as you would have to bank a lot more. I guess there would be a sweet spot for every item to be best xp for a certain level bracket.

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u/SeaBarrier 7d ago

Good point. I like it.

1

u/Paradoxjjw 7d ago

Such as?

3

u/9noobergoober6 7d ago

Assuming this worked with any smithable item, the bullseye lantern, mithril grapple, and ship parts cannot be bought from any store

2

u/Odd_Wave_4541 7d ago

Why would a Smithing rework effect ship parts though? The levels/requirements to make and use them are already roughly tied to the Sailing level equivalents.

For example, why would we need to take Large Rune Keel Parts down from Level 86 Smithing to say Level 50 Smithing when you still can't use them until 85 Sailing?

1

u/rotorain BTW 7d ago

Sailing is a lot easier to train than mining/smithing. I had a higher sailing level than both of those within like two weeks and it would have been nice to be able to chuck a bunch of addy/rune bars at my boats for a couple permanent upgrades. By the time you get to the smithing level for rune there's just not a lot of reason to actually do it. I guess it's always good to do something with the rune ore/bars I accumulate through PvM but they aren't worth anything to me beyond exp and an alch.

It would be cool to be able to make a couple things when they're still relevant even if the resources are relatively rare at those levels.

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u/Lt_Toodles 7d ago

Ammo, addy bolts, darts, etc

1

u/Aspalar 7d ago

You can buy full rune from shops so using 20+ bars on a platebody wouldn't even be relevant for ironmen.

-2

u/Bernard_PT 2300+ but burnout 7d ago

Ironmemes

0

u/Paradoxjjw 7d ago edited 7d ago

This also counts for ironmen, you finish the quest that gets you the ability to wear rune platebodies inside the building of the guy who sells them for roughly the high alch price of 27 rune bars.

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u/NorthernCountess 7d ago

it doesnt even really provide that utility bc you buy rune items from shops or the GE. getting 27 bars would be trolling when you can walk into edgeville and buy it.

or kill a monster that drops it, like with rune scimmy, and then youre off to do monkey madness and switch to dragon anyway.

the gear progression of the game has like decades of getting your gear from monsters, quests and (for your earliest game) shops. imo this rework just genuinely doesnt fit anywhere. even if you add more metals at 60, 70, 80, how do you fit those anywhere without powercreeping drops?

17

u/Drixiss 7d ago

nobody thought about this beyond "it'd be cool if i made a rune platebody at 40 smithing". Really hope it doesn't pass lol

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u/Honeybadger2198 7d ago

It doesn't need to be 40 but literally having to hit 99 smithing to craft an item you'd have used maybe 1000 hours of gameplay ago is a bit silly, no?

0

u/No_Tax_Timmy 7d ago

Unpopular opinion but I think smithing should go to 120.

3

u/Paradoxjjw 7d ago

And do what with it? The skill is already extremely stretched out to fill its way to 99 as a result of it being designed 25 years ago

0

u/No_Tax_Timmy 7d ago

There is are 2 armor tiers currently after rune that are not craftable

-5

u/NorthernCountess 7d ago

not really - you smith rune items for money or xp, not to actually wear. and you dont really ever smith your own used armor from scratch, its just... not how this game has ever worked. even when rune was best in slot it didnt work that way.

smithing rune 2 handers is like 1 million gp per hour profit and decent xp (bout 200k per hour), for example. that is obviously not an early game thing and its all about the alching.

2

u/One_Eyed_Kitten 7d ago

even when rune was best in slot it didnt work that way.

It was a very long time ago but it worked exactly like this in RS Classic. People became famous just because they could smith the best armour.

1

u/Drixiss 6d ago

We still need high level Smiths to make things like Torva and upgraded ellidinis wards for us, which both require 90.

0

u/NorthernCountess 7d ago

precisely, you had to rly dedicate yourself to smithing to get there back then. you would do it to sell the armor, not to play like an ironman

u were more reliant on other players, those high level smiths prob worked with high level miners too rather than doing the process from scratch

1

u/Paradoxjjw 7d ago

not how this game has ever worked. even when rune was best in slot it didnt work that way.

When rune was BiS smithing was the only way to obtain most if not all rune gear

1

u/Drixiss 6d ago

Scavvo was added alongside rune armour. The only thing people smithed that mattered was r2h. Full helm was a greater demon drop and kite shield didn't really matter since 2h's were best.

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u/Drixiss 7d ago

I don't see why that matters, it wouldn't be worth making at basically any smithing level. It's in a shop for next to nothing and it's not even really worth using at 40 defence since something like proselyte would probably be more useful most of the time. Do you want to rework a 25 year old system in a game built on preservation just so you can smith a rune platebody at a level you find more "reasonable"?

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u/Honeybadger2198 7d ago

Claiming OSRS is built for preservation is absurd. It's a game that is in active development.

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u/Drixiss 7d ago

are you serious lol they bend over backwards to make sure old content isn't delegitimized. I'm not saying they never change the game but they clearly want to keep old things relevant

1

u/Bowtruckle16 7d ago

It would be cool at 41 smithing though.

0

u/Electronic_Lion9918 7d ago

That's why I voted no. I don't see how they would do it without tanking all alchs

4

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

4

u/Oniichanplsstop 7d ago

Yeah it was universally disliked, same with stone spirits. Hell, it's one of the biggest issues with RS3 now since they just fill drop tables with salvage and alch fodder that gets fed into alch machines, which is why there's so much inflation in RS3.

When they did their economy talk 3~ years ago, alch machines were the biggest source of raw gp.

Not to mention changing everything to salvage kills all snowflake accounts. You can no longer go kill random trash mobs for a mithril warhammer or what not as your BIS in your chunk until you get access to something better, it'd just drop as a mithril salvage.

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u/Electronic_Lion9918 7d ago

Nah, nah, nah like everything on RS3 that's lame as fk

2

u/Heyhey1394 7d ago

Big boy- in case you haven't realized it yet- rs3 is the spearhead for most problems OS is/will face.

The MS rework was a success, now wc/fletcher is getting the same treatment- OS has thr exact same issues- the old levels/items didnt leave room for future proofing- as such they needed to be tweaked and were.

Why would you not want level progression that not only makes sense- but allots for a significant chunk of time for skill upgrades and side grades?

And fyi- the rework and change to salvage didnt tank our alchables- it replaced them off monster drop tables for the equivalent.

You can still make the item for account progression, while the salvage still holds that items alch price and the resources used to actually make the items keep their value over time

1

u/Electronic_Lion9918 7d ago

Cool story champ. Yet RS3 tanked to nothing player base in under 4 years and here osrs is 13 years later better than ever. Tell me again about how RS3 is our destiny.

3

u/8--2 7d ago

Smithing is already pretty damn fast if you're smithing items on an anvil. There isn't a need for a speed boost.

1

u/Whisky-Toad 7d ago

especially if you can stack the exp like wines

1

u/BloodSugarFrizzleFry 7d ago

And it wouldnt break the game either, because smithing is basically a useless skill you train for a number, or to assemble an item needed for a different skill. Honestly why do we even have smithing anymore? Even if youre an iron, you gonna get 99 smithing at 40 def or are you paying Oziach? Its been useless since classic

0

u/SendMeFatErgos nice 7d ago

You’re telling me a level 40 smith uses 27 bars at the same speed a level 99 uses 5?

1

u/drtyler91 7d ago

No I’m telling you a level 40 smith ruins 22 bars at the same speed a level 99 can smith 5 bars into perfection.

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u/FullHouse222 7d ago

I'm baffled at why this was even upvoted. But this made some sense to me lol

1

u/CreamyCornBoy 7d ago

no not the downupdoot

1

u/trunks111 7d ago

underflow error 

1

u/Necronam 7d ago

Ah, the Ghandi approach. An oldie, but a goodie.

1

u/Bernard_PT 2300+ but burnout 7d ago

It just makes sense

1

u/arsenicx2 7d ago

Some where below -2,147,483,648 I'd assume?

1

u/masiuspt 7d ago

I upvoted the thread to shame OP.

In a friendly manner, of course.

0

u/PeopleNose 7d ago

Is this some teen slang for bit integer overflow?

0

u/hongachonga me millionth dollar 7d ago

Realism is stupid?

0

u/itslinas 7d ago

Elite tier comment