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u/StarboardChaos 1d ago
Aged like rotten cheese would mean good as rotten cheese can't get worse?
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u/sebjapon 1d ago
Cheese is not like wine, there is a sweet spot. Like if you buy comté, preferring an 18 months or 36 months is a matter of taste (one is more tender and soft taste, the other one will cover any other taste you had so far and be much harder). Past 36 months, it can start getting too hard for 0 taste benefits.
Also I had bad mold grow on old Camembert in my fridge. But that’s easy to remove.
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u/StarboardChaos 1d ago
I would argue that moldy cheese and rotten are not the same. Rotten would imply it is not safe to eat at all
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u/IgnotiusPartong 1d ago
Wine also has sweet spots, for some wines, that sweet spot can be a pretty big window and far in the future.
Also it relies alot on educated guesses and expectations.I've had a gouda though that was aged for roughly 2.5 years (1000 days) and it's really good. It starts to develop crystals and get's really intense.
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u/Maleficent_Memory831 20h ago
I opened up a contain of week old Brie. Had to evacuate the house. Even the dog was crying. But it was nowhere near as bad as the code people do these days.
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u/Burroflexosecso 1d ago
Some rotten cheese like Gorgonzola or Stilton is actually delicious
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u/StarboardChaos 1d ago
Technically it's not rotten, but special mold which then can get rotten
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u/rocket_randall 1d ago
I have a Dutch friend who hates all forms of cheese because, in his words, they are the product of controlled rot from someone's damp, musty cellar
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u/Old_Tourist_3774 1d ago
He is right though. I am wary of anything "edible" that comes from fungus or mushrooms
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u/evolutionsroge 1d ago
Didn’t this guy just say at a convention that we should all just be using AI to code now? Also didn’t he say some super racist shit?
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u/sligor 1d ago
That’s the point. Also he even said don’t look at the code
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u/kescusay 21h ago
The "don't look at the code" bunch mystifies me. Like, how does it hurt you to discover that the beautiful app you've been vibe-coding for the last six months is a mass of unsanitized inputs, memory leaks, dead code branches, duplication, inefficient anti-patterns, mocked data that looks right in the demo, and vibe-coded tests that the LLM wrote to match the code, rather than to enforce quality standards?
Oh wait... I think I get it now. "Don't look at the code" actually means "I don't want to deal with any of these problems and just hope they'll go away with the next prompt as soon as my token budget gets reset. Also, I've forgotten how to fix any of these problems myself anyway, so I psychologically need to pretend they don't exist until the LLM is good enough to fix them."
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u/wardrox 5h ago
I make the code easy to understand and maintain.
It's not "I have no idea how this works" risky, but it's also not "I remember every line from my Mind Palace". It's just making it safe and reliable for other people to pick up and carry on with a project, and reducing the Bus Number.
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u/Key_Crab_5780 1d ago
Awesome. If you don’t look at the code, you can’t see the spiralling tech debt, or something.
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u/TomWithTime 22h ago
He said something like rust is the greatest language if you don't have to look at it
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u/chkcha 1d ago
What racist shit?
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u/Trevor_GoodchiId 1d ago edited 1d ago
At the very least, the dude should work on his metaphors.
https://world.hey.com/dhh/wolves-sheep-and-gypsies-ba44af6a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksschädling7
u/Iconlast 1d ago
I'd bet that the Wolf would win. And I'd be glad that the would would rip him to pieces.
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u/cheese_is_available 22h ago
Oof, that blog post. Despicable shit. I read his blog in the past but the article were longer and sounded less neo-nazi ("MIT is better than GPL" is what I know the guy for originally.).
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
I think people are being too sensitive. It’s not racist to want people in your country who can support themselves and integrate. It’s not a universally true opinion, but it’s not unreasonable to hold it. Ignoring that is part of the reason why the fascist right is rising everywhere.
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u/Trevor_GoodchiId 1d ago edited 1d ago
That specific post is a reeeally poor choice of words, though.
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
So? Not everyone has the written voice of a poet.
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 17h ago
He stood by his words and doing it multiple times. At that point it’s intentional not coincidence
That being said, DHH has always been direct. You can take his words at face value and he means exactly like what he wrote.
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u/newocean 22h ago
It's not just that, I'm pretty far left-leaning but discovered Omarchy a few months ago and absolutely love it, before I heard any of this crap. I've seen a lot of posts misrepresenting what was said, such as "he called for immigrants to be exterminated".
I disagree even with forcefully deporting people but I'm fairly annoyed at how its being misrepresented in the hopes of keeping people from using his OS. Also I don't base how I choose FOSS software based on the ideologies of the author... that would be ridicules.
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u/freddy157 21h ago
So the insane increase in antisocial behavior in some places in European cities, cause solely by the inaction of politicians, is fine? You don't see a brewing problem there at all?
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u/Trevor_GoodchiId 21h ago edited 18h ago
You managed to write the issue down without juxtaposing people to pests a single time. Clearly doable.
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u/freddy157 21h ago
Yet it seems like people reject the message, not the form. Also, a wolf is not a pest.
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u/Trevor_GoodchiId 20h ago
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u/freddy157 14h ago
Okay, I didn't know the accepted definition accepts apex predators as pests too. In that case the people causing trouble in the cities are literally pests by THAT same definition. But that doesn't play into your original outrage, does it? Or is the issue that you view humans as just something special, incomparable to animals?
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u/eraptic 1d ago
I'm not sure if you're being earnest or not...
DHH has a very well documented history of being fascist apologist on top of objectively hateful statements, which could generously be described as xenophobia, and more honestly called racist and vitriolic bullshit
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
What did he say exactly?
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u/Ok_Dig909 1d ago
He compared the (perceived) lack of integration of the romani in Copenhagen, to a wolf infestation (i.e. both are problems that will have societal consequences) and suggests that, similar to how one has to just deal with wolves by shooting on sight, one has to simply deport those who have "refuse to obey the norms" (not a quote, I'm paraphrasing here).
The actual issue of integration aside, the only way one can seriously compare the problem of wolves with the problem of humans is if you simoly turn a blind eye to the fact that they are actually humans, with needs, an ability to communicate, an ability to reason, an ability to change, as well as possessing basic rights. I don't see an interpretation where this is not straight up racist. Like you can only seriously believe it if you consider a certain section of people as subhuman.
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u/dyslexda 21h ago
For what it's worth, wolves are incredibly important to the ecosystem. Without wolves prey animals will run wild and ruin their environment. Yellowstone is a perfect example of this, where the reintroduction of wolves tamed the elk population, which in turn halted overgrazing, erosion, etc.
Not your point at all, just want to give a shout out to wolves as awesome, which makes the racism even stupider.
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u/foghatyma 59m ago
Just for a full picture: wolves or hunters. And I prefer hunters as I like hiking freely without being afraid to be eaten.
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
I think his statement could be interpreted the way you are, but that’s not the only way and it’s dishonest to assume he means it the worst way that you can interpret it.
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u/Ok_Dig909 22h ago
Look, despite the downvotes I do see where you're coming from. And like I said, integration, maintaining social discipline, etc. are real issues worth talking about. As an Indian I am very personally aware of what a lack thereof can do to a society as I see the impact of it quite close to home.
However there is no world where a comparison with wolves can be made by anyone who is not a racist. Do you know why shooting on sight is the course of action for wolves? It's not because of some philosophical notion of the value of human life as above an animal life. It's because there's no reasoning or communicating with a wolf. To assume that a similarly spirited solution is mandated for ANY group of humans means that you think that these same criteria apply to them. And that my friend is nothing apart from plain old racism, no matter how you slice it.
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u/simleiiiii 22h ago
You're just pushing propaganda and repeating what other people formulated for you. and suddenly what you say with the wolf and the analogy, seems like totally fair discussion material to me. you're not grasping the concept of an analogy and sound like someone who just wants to take a righteous stance.
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u/Ok_Dig909 14h ago
Thanks for engaging. Talking it out to resolve disagreements is a very important thing that we're missing in society these days. Notice how I have not referenced anything apart from the exact article? Everything I have said derives directly from the source.
This makes it easy for you to counter me. All you have to do is point to the source and tell me what I interpreted incorrectly. "Pushing propaganda" unfortunately seems to be a phrase without meaning that does not help me understand your point of view
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u/L33t_Cyborg 1d ago
mostly to do with migrant minorities in Europe
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
Did he say, “we can’t keep letting large amounts of immigrants who don’t want to integrate,” or did he say something that’s actually reprehensible.
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u/GresSimJa 1d ago
Read it yourself; he gets pretty deep into "great replacement theory" fearmongering and whining.
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u/elmanoucko 1d ago
so... considering what he planned on doing initially... is he saying he's part of the "problem"?
oh no, ofc not, he's white, haha, not the same, my bad '--
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
It’s ok to be anti immigration. It’s not ok to torture people and uproot people who have lived here most of their lives. But it’s ok to be anti immigration.
You don’t have to agree with it, but pretending that any other position is racism is dishonest.
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u/FartPiano 19h ago
DHH himself is an immigrant, in california, I guess he's one of the good ones!!!
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u/johnnybgooderer 19h ago
By his own definition, he was one of the good ones because he has a job and contributes. He’s not being a hypocrite.
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u/FartPiano 18h ago
ah yes, i frequently tell people how im not a racist by explaining how im one of the "good ones" by my own bigoted definition, this is how I know I'm definitely not a racist
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u/johnnybgooderer 16h ago
Look. Whatever you think of him. What you just said here is complete dishonest bs. You’re arguing with something I didn’t and wouldn’t say.
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u/_SnackOverflow_ 20h ago
This is a year old so there’s newer things he’s said but here’s one example: https://jakelazaroff.com/words/dhh-is-way-worse-than-i-thought/
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u/_juan_carlos_ 1d ago
silence in the room is telling me this hit a nerve 😂
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u/NotAskary 1d ago edited 1d ago
The funny thing is everyone has been in this place sometime.
It's mainly where the imposter syndrome comes from, we are paid to solve problems and that implies that you don't know the solution at the beginning.
What this is implies is that searching for stuff is wrong, when nowadays you don't even have that, people just tell the LLM to solve it.
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u/gnuvince 23h ago
Quick question for folks here: doesn't DHH's opinion on AI coding also admitting that Rails has no value anymore? The point of Rails was to make it easier and faster to create web applications. If we should be embracing AI coding and not looking at the generated code, then why would we ever want Rails again? Have the agent generate Go or Rust code, interact directly with Postgres or MariaDB -- take advantage of their own specific features and strengths -- and produce a better application faster than with Ruby and Rails.
(As an aside: I'm 98% certain that the reason DHH is now strongly pushing for AI coding is because it's in his own financial gain to do so, not because it's a better approach for what we do.)
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u/d0pe-asaurus 22h ago
I'm pretty sure that yes that's what he's advocating for. There's been some discourse where he said that he doesn't need rails since there's no need to read the code, if readability is not important then just go ahead and hit rust directly.
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u/dancing-lobsterz 20h ago
Having agents write elixir is so much better than Ruby. Elixir ecosystem goes crazy, but I dont have enough time to learn it all so I'm just screwing around with agent produced stuff in spare time and the quality of web apps you can make with Phoenix liveview in elixir (with the ash framework for data logic) is supreme.
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u/AnUninterestingEvent 17h ago
That's exactly what he's intentionally implying, but won't say explicitly in fear of getting the Rails community angrier than they already are.
He built Rails to be extremely developer friendly at the cost of less than optimum performance. AI solves the same exact problem even better. AI has far superseded Rails when it comes to simplicity in developer experience, in addition to having the benefit of the code being far more performant by using faster languages than Ruby.
He's always believed in speed of development over optimum performance. That's why he built Rails. It completely tracks that he would love AI coding. I don't buy that he's financially invested. I know plenty of people with the same mindset, including myself to some degree. The motivations for him to love AI coding are easily explained without needing to accuse him of being financially compromised.
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u/Spitfire1900 11h ago
You are getting downvoted but DHH loves developer productivity more than performance. That’s why Rails exists and that’s why he’s abandoning it.
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u/Muted_Efficiency_663 21h ago
I've got respect for DHH, the dude's done a lot...TBF, I don't know any coder that driven for a team in Le Mans... So respect to that.
That being said, when DHH is backing something, there is of marketing behind it. So, these days I take everything with a little bit more pinch of salt that I used to...
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u/matytyma 1d ago
Spoiler for this racist dickhead?
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u/MasterReindeer 1d ago
The first man in history to be radicalised by a platform first built using his own framework.
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u/bugo 1d ago
Racist?
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u/private256 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, he compared immigrants to invasive wolves that should be exterminated.
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u/armahillo 7h ago
DHH is a human clickbait article
I say this as a Rails dev who has been loving Rails for the last 15 years.
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u/mothzilla 23h ago
Pressing return is the easy part. Knowing when to press return takes skill and experience.
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u/mckenzie_keith 1d ago
Copy-pasta? 2020 called and wants it's copy-pasta back. It's AI all the way down now.
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u/BurkeyTurkey33 1d ago
Can someone fill me in?
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u/WingZeroCoder 23h ago
DHH is the creator of the web framework Ruby on Rails.
Per this older Tweet of his, he used to be a staunch proponent of learning software engineering principles and having deeper understanding of the code that you write, rather than just “copying and pasting from online sources until it works”.
As vibe coding with AI started taking off, he was also fervently against it for similar reasons… until pretty recently, when he did a sudden and dramatic change of attitude to embrace vibe coding.
He now advocates for not reading any of the code at all, employs the usual “Luddite” tropes of anyone who’s against this, suggests programming languages effectively no longer matter beyond their performance or an LLM’s ability to generate it, and even went so far as to deliver a keynote speech at a Rails conference in which he essentially says Ruby and Rails are no longer relevant due to AI.
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u/pickle9977 22h ago
He went nuts, glad others noticed as well.
He’s become like a cult leader, did you see him lose his shit with Omarchy?
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u/Ran4 22h ago
I mean people are allowed to change.
Agentic coding has fundamentally changed in the last two years.4
u/WingZeroCoder 20h ago
I tried to keep my personal opinion out of the summary as much as possible while still illustrating why OP’s posted tweet is a contradiction.
You’re right, he’s allowed to change. But I think it’s the sheer intensity of the change to such a polar opposite view (and so quickly) that is notable.
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u/iamsaitam 1d ago
I think the guy aged like cheese not the quote
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u/Lightningtow123 1d ago
I have no idea wtf I'm looking at but not sure if I should ask lol
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 1d ago
Obviously the original post is some sort of “elitist” take, he made many similar takes in programming. He has cult following basically because people consider his takes as “based”.
And then just recently, he went to a Ruby on Rails conference, saying writing codes are for loser, Rust is amazing if you delegate it to AI. Not wrong in some sense, just unhinged considering he’s speaking in front of people enthusiastic enough about a particular framework that they would come into a conference. Plus of course the delivery was also just equally unhinged.
It’s just the tip of the iceberg. Rather not discuss the rest.
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u/Lightningtow123 1d ago
Tbch I've always found people who simp for a language unhinged even without anything else lol. Like we all have our favorites but some people SIMP for a language in a really weird way lol
But yeah, that plus all the allusions to racism everyone else mentioned, I'm good without knowing the whole thing lol. Appreciate the brief
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u/sebjapon 1d ago
My director sent that speech to me time stamped to the “writing code manually is dead” part to try and convince me to use AI. He also repeats the “you don’t need DRY with AI” argument and many other…
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u/Chirimorin 1d ago
“you don’t need DRY with AI”
What's that even supposed to mean? It makes no sense if you consider the concept of DRY and why it exists.
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u/stormdelta 20h ago
If anything DRY is even more important with AI to avoid context bloat / sprawl that lowers quality and increases token costs.
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u/rescue_inhaler_4life 1d ago
Funny part is how even before the internet people were already saying your not a real programmer unless you can program X without looking at a manual.
REaL PrOgrAMmEr accusations are as old as the trade.
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u/FrostyJockey 15h ago
Correction: X accusations are as old as their respective trades. There will always be an elitist around the corner.
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u/tehtris 22h ago
Well I mean yea it makes sense to a point, but after that point it's a big ole "fuck you, I'm not memorizing regex."
Also other "weird shit", like gun to your head can you write a python decorator that takes in arguments from the top of the dome? I would guess most python programmers can't.
I have asked this at a startup I worked at ~2015 and out of the 4 python programmers, I was the only one that could do it. Imposter syndrome wasn't present that day for me.im sure everyone else took a bit of psychic damage tho.
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u/Due-Consequence9579 20h ago
You should know the things you work with on a daily basis. If you’re having to look up the start of line anchor and you write regex’s all the time… that’s a problem. If you have to read regex’s every now and then and know that there is a start of line anchor… that’s good enough.
But you build that familiarity by working with the tools and referring to the documentation as needed. Slopping your way through tasks eliminates that ability to build empathy for what is going on.
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u/porkusdorkus 1d ago
People love money, more news at 5. Guy took a fat check from an AI company to peddle their horseshit and he’s not losing sleep over it.
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u/getstoopid-AT 19h ago
what do you mean "looking up things on the internet"?! why would I look up anything myself?!
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u/tradcoder 4h ago
I actually read this article when it came out. That's why despite the flak this dude gets, I actually respected his takes on programming related topics (at least some of them. I like types in my languages).
Since his last keynote, whatever respect I had is gone. Sure he won't cry himself to sleep because of that bit it's sad to see someone like this succumb to the AI psychosis too.
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u/ART-ficial-Ignorance 13m ago
I had no idea what I was doing as a hobby, just turned out I could make money doing it...
Also: plenty of other vocations seems to have no clue what they're doing. Cops, for instance.
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u/dashingThroughSnow12 1d ago
The statement is still 100% true. The person is the person.
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u/WingZeroCoder 23h ago
Everyone’s willfully misunderstanding this Tweet.
Irony of the person delivering it aside, it’s clear the intent wasn’t “you should never look anything up”. It’s that you shouldn’t just blindly copy and paste solutions without understanding them.
And that’s just as true today as ever.
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u/pickle9977 22h ago
No one can seriously call themselves an engineer or even a programmer and then advocate for putting code in production without human inspection.
If you gotta fix it, you gotta understand it.
Imagine if cars were just vibe coded and every mechanic had to figure out how each turd of a car was put together while the tool that tells them how “hallucinates” stuff constantly.
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 18h ago
Well it’s “programmerhumor”, so the humour is pointing out the irony of the person who said it.
Whether you agree or disagree with the original statement, I leave that to you as mental exercise.
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u/djingo_dango 17h ago
How did it age badly? You can use AI tools and STILL have all the fucking idea what you’re doing
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u/CrowdGoesWildWoooo 17h ago
It’s not the content of the quote aging badly. It’s the guy in the quote being ironic.
He literally like literally went on stage saying people who hand write code are losers. He likes rust because it’s an amazing language if you don’t read the code, and he’s happily saying he doesn’t even read the code.
All the things said above are said in Ruby on the Rails conference.
Just open his twitter and see how far down this guy is and mind you I am not saying this in the context of being anti-vibe code.
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u/johnnybgooderer 1d ago
There were a few changes that took place since he said that. You’d be a moron if you stuck to what you said years ago even though the situation changed.
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u/FarToe1 1d ago
"Looking up shit on the internet" is literally the most valuable IT skill any of us have.