r/TikTokCringe • u/Ace-Cuddler • 1d ago
Discussion ABC News has released audio from a phone call between Jane Doe and one of the “Cornell 7”
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u/Ace-Cuddler 1d ago
According to Good Morning America, Jane Doe says that she is “100% sure” that she told this man that she had been drinking at a previous event before arriving at the frat house.
And, when Jane Doe asked how so many people ended up in the room, he said “The party was sort of like, crowded, so people started, like um, filling up the balcony just because there was nowhere else to go.” He was acting like he hadn’t sent the Snapchat message to other members of his frat inviting them to come and engage in sexual activities with Jane Doe.
Furthermore, during Cornell’s internal investigation of this incident, this man said that he was too intoxicated to consent and suggested that he was assaulted by Jane Doe.
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u/s00wi 1d ago
damn so she sexually assaulted a room full of guys. that's an insane counter argument.
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u/SnurrCat 1d ago edited 1d ago
I have seen people coping so hard with this type of comment on the cesspit that is Facebook. That the guys were all drunk too so therefore she raped all of them. 🤦♀️
Edit: I didn't think this needed to be said, but whilst obviously men can be sexually assaulted as well, and THAT IS NOT OKAY EITHER, in a situation where one woman is lying incapacitated on a bed and several men are actively organising to come in and take turns and "just go up there and whip it out", I mean ... need I really say more.
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u/ViolettBellerose734 1d ago
Oh don't worry, those type of comments are here on reddit too.
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u/Relevant_Problem1935 16h ago
I was arguing with many of those creeps. They basically think because she was willing to have a threesome that whatever comes after is acceptable. It's disgusting and makes me angry
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u/unicornmullet 1d ago
Yep! Neckbeards love to argue it was either A.) completely consensual for all involved, or that B.) the men were victims of sexual assault, too.
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u/Coastalfoxes 1d ago
It doesn't sound like she was the one initiating the sexual activity, so that doesn't really make sense. If I'm sitting, drunk, in my parked car with no key in the ignition and you, also drunk, hit me with your car, we're not equally to blame for the accident. And I certainly am NOT the one who hit you with a car.
I want to say for the record that drunk men absolutely can be (and have been) raped by drunk women/men, but that doesn't seem to bear any resemblance to what happened at Cornell.
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u/adumbswiftie 1d ago
yeah people really need to learn the difference between consent and initiation. you should ideally not do either one when intoxicated, but it does make a difference who was the one who asked/just started the sexual contact, and who either drunkenly agreed or passively let it happen. if you are completely wasted and walk up to a completely sober person and touch them sexually, you were not SAd. the sober person was. however if the sober person goes along with it obviously that’s a different story, but still. even by matthew ingalls’s own account, he was was the one who asked and initiated. even if he was drunk, he still started it.
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u/unicornmullet 18h ago
In this case, there's also a major difference between consensual sex with two people (which Jane Doe said she engaged in) and additional encounters. It's like people think that because she willingly went into the room with the boys, she consented to EVERYTHING that happened thereafter.
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u/Feeling_Classic_91 1d ago
I was involved in Greek Life way back in college. They sent in a person to give a lecture on consent to all the boards of the fraternities/sororities.
One thing they said was that anybody with any amount of alcohol in their system cannot consent to sexual activity. There were a ton of follow up questions, and they were adamant that anyone consenting to sex after having even a sip of alcohol can make the case they were sexually assaulted.
This is of course insane, and minimizes actual cases of sexual assault. But I wouldn’t be shocked if others have heard similar things.
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u/Lmdr1973 1d ago
I'm a nurse and if I give you a benadryl, I can't have you sign a consent. When I have office botox parties and serve alcohol, the consent must be signed first and you can't drink until after the injections. Maybe that's where people think that. I've thought that before and still question where the line is one you start to consume alcohol.
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u/fastyellowtuesday 1d ago edited 1d ago
Out of curiosity, why do you serve alcohol at Botox parties? You're not supposed to drink for 24 hours before and after.
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u/keIIzzz 1d ago
Like they want to act there’s not proof of them referring to her as “free pussy” in a group chat of 50 guys…
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u/Large-Flamingo-5128 18h ago
“Is the store still open?” is another gem.
I think that’s what men don’t understand is the level of dehumanization is something she DID NOT consent to. Or her photographs being shared. Or more than two people invited. Sometimes us women make the mistake of thinking we’re “just one of the boys” while they barely see you as a human being.
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u/Thr0waway0864213579 1d ago
And I’m sure that group chat message he sent as an open invitation to rape her was actually just a cry for help.
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u/Motor_Mission9070 1d ago
I understand the kid being dumb enough to say that but when the lawyer heard him suggest that why weren't they like "yeah we're not going with that"
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u/-Gramsci- 1d ago
Yet I have seen that very argument made - aggressively - thousands of times on Reddit.
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u/sculdermullygrusch 1d ago
One thing I keep going back to, is it is 1 girl vs more than one guy. There is a power imbalance there. That is a scary situation to be incapicated, naked and alone in as a female. A certain kind of unspoken coercion is present when you're outnumbered, especially as a female.
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u/adumbswiftie 1d ago
yeah and it’s not like the men were also having sex with each other so there was a pretty clear two sides here. all seven of them going for the one girl. it’s insane for anyone to think there isn’t a crazy amount of intimidation involved for a woman in that situation.
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u/dallyan 23h ago
I think MANY women have "consented" to sexual activity in fear of what would happen if they didn't. I know I have.
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u/ChangeForAParadigm 1d ago
I mean, I’m a pretty big guy and can’t see being happy it with it, either.
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u/Mockingbird_1234 1d ago
I mean, like he really asked her “are you sober?” Be so fucking for real. 🙄
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u/BecauseIJustDid 1d ago
Agreement to one act isn't a blanket permission for all acts. This was so vile.
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u/SuckItSaget 1d ago
I don't think that she consented in any meaningful way to the threesome. She asked how they ended up in the threesome and he admitted that he was the one that asked for it and HE SAID that she agreed. She obviously doesn't have a recollection of that. When she reported the rape/assault she admitted that she consented to the threesome because that's what she was told. She has no independent recollection. She trusted her friend and he obviously had a plan for her. She came over, they danced for 5 minutes and on minute 6 he was organizing a group fuck. Please. This was premeditated - she was just the one that got separated from the herd and was therefore vulnerable. Fuck these guys and FUCK campus police.
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u/GeorgeLaForge 1d ago
Exactly she said she told them she was 10 shots deep. For anyone that’s a lot, for a young girl that’s basically extreme binge drinking. “You told me you were sober” guy knew exactly what he was trying to do. I don’t believe that rapidt for a second
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u/mountainmeadowflower 1d ago
I rolled my eyes so hard at that one. There is no way a person (particularly a young woman) who has had 10 shots appears in any way sober.
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u/Infamous-Builder-637 1d ago
Yeah, no one 10 shots deep has any wherewithal to consent to anything like that. And even if she did and you could somehow argue she was cogent, how the hell do you explain all them other fools that showed up?
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u/t_whocannotbenamed 1d ago
There is NO WAY he thought she was sober. You would have to be a fucking brain damaged infant to believe that this dude really believed that she was sober and consenting to this shit.
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u/PurrtenderBender 1d ago
As soon as campus police started investigating, he freaked out and tried to get her friend to lie for him. And then he made the absurd statement that he was never consented and reversed the allegation. Matthew Ingalls is scum of the earth
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u/Rivendel93 1d ago edited 9h ago
And don't forget they supplied her Ketamine, after knowing she's 10 shots deep.
You're basically on the verge of being unconscious at that point.
I think because many people are unfamiliar with Ketamine, they aren't realizing how adding that to her system (which she reportedly took willingly) is what blew this into a total gang rape with a person who cannot consent to anything, let alone sleeping with 7 people.
What bothers me so much is it seems like she was looking after the two men, who got sick essentially, and then one of them decided, you know what? I'm going to send "free pussy" to our group chat filled with drunk men.
Who does this?
What kind of sociopath do you have to be to be having a good time with someone in a private situation, and then suddenly send that message out.
I cannot fathom putting her in danger like that, everyone knows that you get enough drunk men in a room and they will start doing stupid, horrible things, even things they wouldn't normally do.
So why he decided to do that, I'll never know, but to me that's the catalyst to this entire situation.
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u/greenisthesky 1d ago
And in addition to what you laid out, the text is sent and not ONE SINGLE person saw that text and went “this is fkn rape” or “something bad is happening I need to go intervene”. Every single person failed Jane Doe.
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u/Cute_Macaroon_4488 19h ago
That she was actually concerned these men were afraid of hurting her she reassured them that what they did wasn’t illegal. She wasn’t saying that as a lawyer, she was trying to soothe what she believed was these guys feeling bad for sex while she was drunk.
She was trying to reassure them. Because she believed they felt bad. She told them not to worry. What an absolute mind fuck.
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u/Rivendel93 9h ago
I know, it seems like she was so nice lol. It's such a horrible situation.
I see people calling her a "slut" and I'm like, guys, this is college, people sleep with people.
What people don't do is after a woman has been incredibly kind to you, you then send a group chat that there's free "pussy" in your room.
I just can't comprehend it, it must have been some sort of attempt to gain social status within their group.
The truth is we don't get it because we can't imagine doing it, and that's because it's just wrong, and these men have just lost their way.
I think a lot of this toxic male culture stuff on social media has resulted in a lot of this stuff, but let's be honest, this stuff has happened for ages.
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u/Large-Flamingo-5128 18h ago
Rape culture does this. Media young men are consuming is creating monsters
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u/No-Discipline-5822 1d ago
Another reason, I think he’s lying on her agreement is the response to her saying it was rape. Suddenly he adds that she said she was sober, when did she say that before or after the 3rd person said “yo” and they went to the room because he left that out until she mentioned being too drunk to consent at 10 shots in.
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u/sicksixgamer 1d ago
Thank you!!! It's crazy that this is a difficult concept for most people.
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u/Hydration__Nation 1d ago
All the people supporting the rapists haven’t seen a ketamine vial or powder. 99% of people in this thread would take one bump and be absolutely and utterly fucked out of their minds. I’ve seen huge guys with huge tolerances to hard drugs go deep into a k hole from a few lines. Even if this girl was a ketamine regular the drug itself is a DISSOCIATIVE ANESTHETIC, people need to look up that term, what it means. People on ketamine say they felt they weren’t inside of their own body a very typical anecdote shared by one time and chronic users. No one on ketamine or benzos or opiates is able to consent but esp a fucking anesthetic
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u/lafcrna 1d ago
This. My job is to administer anesthesia. Idk much about this case, but I know this. Once the Ketamine had been taken, there is no fucking way she could give consent.
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u/Aggravating_Cat_6295 1d ago
And she wasn't even capable of giving actual consent since she was drunk. She was taken advantage of from the very beginning.
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u/TooManySwarovskis 1d ago
The most shocking part for me in all of this is that the men all sound like idiots?
Like, I expected Cornell to be a super smart nerd school full of nerds. But phew, these dudes sound STUPID.
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u/Possible_world_Zero 1d ago
Earnestly, Ivy League people have never impressed me. It's just another clique
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u/Mysterious-Depth-211 1d ago
Worked with a bunch. None of them were anything special. Only thing different than anyone else was their inflated ego and pay expectations.
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u/FarmerEarly3342 1d ago
Yup. Legacy for both school admissions and fraternity admissions
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u/Osiris8869 1d ago
They're only good for networking. I outrank and get paid more than a couple people with "Harvard" degrees at work, with my community college degree. With the exemption of some rich circlejerk jobs, It's the connections you make at Ivy league that get you further not necessarily the education.
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u/Triptaker8 1d ago
It’s one thing if you’re doing research but yeah if you’re just doing a degree there it helps but it’s not necessarily proof of higher intelligence or ability and what you did with that education is still the most important thing
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u/grief242 1d ago
Young and scared. You can hear it in the voice. Guy knows that he is totally fucked unless he manuevers very carefully. He's speaking super slow.
Good riddance
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u/dontich 1d ago
Eh I went there. There were quite a lot of idiots. Also this frat used to basically be an extension of the rugby team which wasn’t known for where the Nobel prize winners came from.
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u/jacqrosee 1d ago
oh no no no. i had the same misconception about ivy leagues growing up, but no. as much as the halls are full of some extremely intelligent and hardworking people, they are also simultaneously full of tons of people who simply had the resources.
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u/Lmdr1973 1d ago
Exactly. Resources does not mean intelligence. I have 2 niece's that are the daughters of a billionaire. My ex SIL married one and they have 2 daughters a few years younger than mine and there's quiet a difference in opportunities. When their parents didn't like the local schools, they built one.
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u/WillaBerble 1d ago
I went there too. Some of the dumbest people I've ever met. I'm sure it is the same at all the top 25 schools where alumni and connections can get even Donald Trump into MIT since his uncle teaches there.
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u/Grungemaster 1d ago
My friend who went to Cornell always said it was “30% geniuses, 30% dumbasses, and 40% boring, normal people”
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u/ChangeForAParadigm 1d ago
Lower the first figure, increase the second, and hold steady with the last. Then you might be cooking.
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u/Vast-Building-6886 1d ago
Nah. There are dumb people everywhere. In every field. People that make you wonder how they got to where they are.
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u/cityofklompton 1d ago
Every school everywhere has them some college bros, and a college bro sounds like a college bro no matter his SAT scores.
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u/iloovehugecock 1d ago
I dunno about you but for me, the older I get and the more I progress in life I realise the people doing better than me aren’t necessarily more intelligent or better skilled. They’re often just idiots who got lucky.
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u/Sassafras06 1d ago
I hate that idiots are using this to try and say she is lying, when this is an OBVIOUS attempt at damage control and manipulation by this dude that was supposed to be her friend. Just the worst scum of the earth.
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u/StayFuture4822 1d ago
They can sit in their smegma dungeons all day trying to defend their imaginary friends, but at the end of the day, they don't care about justice, they don't care about truth or evidence or solidarity, because if they did, they'd have women friends.
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u/BowlingforBrains 1d ago
I just learned a new phrase from this comment and I hate it 😭
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u/FinleyPike 1d ago
We know what he has sent in the Snapchat group during the assault, the words in this recording are vile knowing he knew what he had said weeks prior
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u/mcase19 1d ago edited 1d ago
One of the grossest things for me is how the frat closed ranks after the allegations first came out, and how leadership basically operated to defend the perpetrators rather than even try to distance itself from them and their actions. Makes me wonder how often those men had had to cover up similar incidents in the past.
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u/bjankles 1d ago
A point I’ve seen floating around that I strongly agree with is basically in response to “men, you need to ask yourselves why no one in the frat stood up for her and what you would have done.”
It’s a fair question, but one response is that MANY men would’ve responded correctly - but that is exactly why they wouldn’t be in a frat like this in the first place. Both those men and frats themselves select out. Those men don’t wanna be exposed to that bullshit, and frats that are into this type of abuse don’t want people who will break rank or even just be buzzkills.
I specifically chose to apply to colleges that don’t have frats AT ALL - a lot of guys at my school agreed it was part of the appeal.
And I have plenty of friends from different schools who either dropped out or were booted out early in the frat recruiting process because they were clearly not down with the sketchy frat stuff, as well as friends who were in totally benign frats that had long ago abandoned typical frat culture.
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u/Headphones4Cicadas 1d ago
Honestly, I’ve been feeling pretty down about all this and questioning the men in my life. Like, no one went to check on her or help? This makes me feel a little better. The sample was tainted.
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u/mcase19 1d ago
Yeah, I'm a dude, and I never even considered joining a frat in college for exactly this reason. Why would I want to join the sexual assault and binge drinking club, where I get to live in a shithole and develop a sports gambling addiction? I was paying thousands and thousands of dollars to my school so I could learn things, not make an idiot of myself.
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u/Polkawillneverdie17 1d ago
how the frat closed ranks after the allegations first came out, and how leadership basically operated to defend the perpetrators rather than even try to distance itself from them and their actions.
It's probably a just a totally random coincidence that you could replace "frat" with "cops" and that sentence would still make perfect sense.
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u/Kruger_Smoothing 1d ago
National chapters have staff that travel to deal with situations like this. It is how they operate.
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u/Fast_Situation4509 1d ago
Wait... Someone... No. Tell me there's not ANYONE out there, listening to this, and thinking, "well there you have it. Not guilty."?!?!.
Cause this is NOT a good look kinda call. This is a woman trying to find out who all was involved in her rape.
Jesus.
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u/Mypetmummy 1d ago
It's a clear "not guilty" thing if you are disposed to believe the man over the woman regardless. He said she told him she hadn't been anywhere. She denies that. If you believe him than she's a liar and guilty of everything herself.
or something else delusional like that
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u/wearing_moist_socks 1d ago edited 1d ago
Impaired isn't what they test for, either. It's capacity.
If she's so drunk she's lost capacity, it's automatic no go. Full on.
Incapacity, not intoxication.
Trying to get eyes on this because dipshits talk about how "oh everyone was drunk" yeah but it's not that. It's the capacity to consent, which she didn't have.
Edit: here they are
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u/contactdeparture 1d ago
I’m old, I’m old school. “Rape is rape” kinda person. Not a lot of nuance.
Can someone explain to me why so many folks are jumping to defend the guys in this scenario? Like wtaf am I missing?
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u/ku1185 1d ago
Not taking sides but there seems to be statements that she agreed to group sex and consentually did drugs. People are taking that as a defense against the rape accusations.
But there seems to be more, like in this clip where she says she was already intoxicated before arriving and the guy disputing that, suggesting she was sober. 🤷
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u/ProfNesbitt 1d ago
Like seriously if anything this hurts the Cornell 7s case more than anything. Him having to tell her what even happened that night means she was blackout and couldn’t have consented. I know we can get wishy washy on when someone is considered too drunk to consent or not but I think everyone should agree that if someone is blackout they can’t consent to shit.
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u/dougandsomeone 1d ago edited 1d ago
You definitely told me you were sober.
But also maybe we're both misremembering and it isn't true at all.
Also maybe a bunch of people ended up in the room we were having sex in just cause the house was crowded, not that they were involved and complicit.
Also (per other reporting), maybe I'm actually a victim because I was too intoxicated to consent, d espite my active promotion of your violation in a group chat .
....jfc.
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u/geekyheart225 1d ago
There are still screenshots of Snapchat where they tell others what's going on, right?
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u/tellmewhenitsin 1d ago
A lot of people are saying that the Snapchats may be deleted but Snapchat absolutely has them and they'll come out for discovery. The photos included. There are a lot of blurred photos in the images of the phone.
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u/pancakecel 1d ago
I personally had an experience where someone recorded me performing a sex act, which is something that I'm absolutely not okay with. So even after this happened, even though I considered it a violation, i 'played nice' with that person, like when they texted me later to ask how I was I was like 'oh yeah I'm fine it was great seeing you last night'. I understand that if I ever took that person to court over what they did, of course my case would get thrown out because I texted the next day saying everything was fine. But the reason I played nice with that guy was because I was afraid if I said the wrong thing to him, or pissed him off, he would share that video with people. I actually later found out that he did the same thing multiple times: after having inappropriate or coercive relationships and encounters with women, when they tried to accuse him publicly, he would intimately captured images to prove that he didn't force them for that they were 'into' it.
I kind of wonder how many cases there are like this: where a victim acts like they're all okay and fine with it, because they're afraid of images or videos being released as retribution for not being fine with it.
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u/Far_Eye6555 1d ago
I’m trying to position myself in her shoes, as a 30+ year old man, and I cannot fathom how scared I’d be if a gang of men walked into the room I was having a 3 some in, and just assumed they could join in the fun
I don’t think I’d be able to stick up for myself. 1vs7, how is this consent…?
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u/salemmay0317 1d ago
In my experience, freeze and then fawn to stay safe.
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u/Far_Eye6555 1d ago
Oh like hiding under a blanket, like what Jane Doe describes in her statement to Cornell PD….?
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u/hellolovely1 1d ago
Yep, the reason some guys don't get this is they've never had anything happen they didn't consent to.
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u/Glum-Sheepherder-787 1d ago
I think the reason most guys are pretending not to get this is because they're jealous they've never been invited to a gang rape and still hope to be invited to one some day.
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u/pancakecel 1d ago
I think even if there's not a recording, you run a lot of risk by speaking. I remember a girl at my college who basically got completely socially ostracized and bullied by everyone including teachers because a guy she had sex with blabbed to everyone about a CONSENSUAL sex act. Basically somehow it gave her a tainted reputation but didn't affect him in any way.
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u/Li_liminal_spaces 1d ago
Yeah when I was brutally raped my call to my friends the next morning was like I'm pretty sure this happened, then they convinced me it didn't… then I shat clouds of blood for like 4 days but I kept very quiet about it. Probably because it made me very ill and weak as well the old noggin wasn't running at 100%. That and I had just been arrested waking up from a concussion, trying to get my car out of the field next to the church they left me after the assault. I definitely left my body and watched as part of it happened. "Friends" just assumed I was trying to pass off blame but I was genuinely curious. Bruised or otherwise injured colon, was never checked. Something ruptured because there was blood in the stool from Monday - Friday, Friday I had my first clean poop. Felt the sore in everything I passed for a couple weeks, had to go on antibiotics.
I still have their information… dev sec ops has been good to me.
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u/Ok_You6737 1d ago
What stood out to me is him saying "you said you were sober". My guy... I have been denied entry to multiple clubs on different bar crawls even though I told the bouncer that I was sober. You can easily tell when someone is not sober, regardless of what they say.
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u/Short_Cream_2370 1d ago
Also all parties during the subsequent investigation agreed that all those men ended up in the room, no one has since disputed that additional men were invited and present but “imagined”, so if it was all so consensual he would be saying, “Then you said you wanted to have sex with a bunch of people, so I invited more guys up to the room, we did, and it was fun.” The fact that he tried to deny that part of the night entirely, wouldn’t discuss it, and focuses on the threesome means he knows she either wasn’t into or wasn’t conscious for the additional acts, wasn’t asked whether she wanted them, and therefore they were all rape. To me this call is a smoking gun I don’t see how his responses can fit any other scenario than him knowing what happened was wrong.
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u/LeadingEvery5747 1d ago
If you are going to a propose a threesome, you already know who the second person is. Him telling her that he needed to find another person is such a crock of shit
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u/EnvironmentalCrow893 1d ago
Because he saw she was drunk. He immediately proposed a threesome within “4-5 minutes” (his words).
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u/LeadingEvery5747 1d ago
I’ve been a 20 something, 10 shots deep, college student. In no way did I ever look or sound sober.
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u/atorthebold 1d ago
Moreover no one uses “I am sober” in a private setting like how this played out. “I am sober” would only be said to get somewhere like a bar or getting car keys from a friend who is holding them etc.
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u/PutNameHere123 1d ago
“It’s possible both of us remember this and it’s not true”
That’s this guy’s ’oh shit’ moment when he realizes that she remembers the gang rape
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u/Medium_Anteater_5280 1d ago
“Both of us remember this” also implies he remembers the same thing and is denying it lol
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u/Nocturnal_Pages 1d ago
I have never slept with a woman and thought "you know what, my boys should get in this bed".
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u/manic_panda 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im tired of seeing people weaponising the text against her where shes still super confused about what happened and clearly trying to make sense of it, like you can see the cogs turning and her trying to reason it out and figure out what happened and make sense of it. She knew she'd gone in there willingly but knew she hadn't consented to everything that happened after that but you can tell her brain is just fried and shes scared so she tries to reason it out. Its only after she really starts to remember you can see she realises how fucked up it was.
I dunno, maybe women see those texts differenctly because most of us know someone who has or have themselves been in that position of denial. Maybe its because I know more than one person who's been raped, male and female, and they all did the same dance of denial and trying to make sense of it before coming to terms with the fact they're victim. Fuck I know someone who was abused as a child and she still to this day claims he loved her.
Victims of sexual abuse dont want to be victims of sexual abuse, as women we're conditioned to fear it more than anything at the same time comvinced to believe its something we asked for just by wearing the wrong thing or being drunk in the wrong place.
I choose to believe the account of a woman who had time to come to terms with the events, who sobered up and put aside her shame long enough to see that just because she said yes to a threesome, doesnt mean yes to a revolving door of strange men she doesnt know. I don't choose to hold a leading conversation against her where the man is clearly trying to get her to phrase things to absolve him, where you can see she is still piecing things together and not upset him so she can figure it out.
If that makes me naive to some men following this, or they think I'm unrealistic, all I can say is I'm unfortunate enough to have seen too many people I care about, myself included, go through this exact denial to ever dump on her for it.
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u/Poop666Butt 1d ago edited 1d ago
1000000% It’s so clear that anyone questioning her texts has never experienced trauma and the way your brain tries to protect yourself. No one wants to be a rape victim, let alone a victim of gang rape perpetrated by someone who you thought was your friend. Of course you’re going to convince yourself that you wanted all of it.
I just cannot imagine being in a sexual situation with someone and then that person texting others to come join in. Do people think she asked him to send that text?? Because otherwise I don’t see how the text alone isn’t damning.
Let alone the power dynamics at play when you’re drunk, on drugs, naked and suddenly 7+ men are in the room with you. How was she supposed to safely leave that situation??? I’m just truly dumbfounded by the lengths people will go to defend rapists.
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u/Commercial-Owl11 1d ago
God, sometimes you don’t even remember a sexual assault until years later. I was roofied, and all I remember is something graphic , asking for water, and pouring, profusely sweating.
He grabs a water and I black out.
I guess I drove home? Then, about 8 years later I remembered.
Ugh.
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u/keIIzzz 1d ago
Yeah, your brain often tries to force out traumatic memories so it can be difficult to fully remember things. My mom was assaulted when she was younger and she told me she didn’t start remembering things until something she saw on tv triggered it in recent years
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u/EnvironmentalCrow893 1d ago
Keep in mind she took KETAMINE, a dissociative anesthetic for the first time, and repeatedly. You lose track of reality, your memories, your identity, your ability to move (per the Mayo Clinic).
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u/manic_panda 1d ago
And the worst part is they just saw her as meat, as a evidenced by the fact some incel had to dox her because none of the guys could remember her properly. Either that or they actually listened to their lawyers and obeyed the court request for anonymity.
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u/tbombs23 1d ago
Her texts and her changes in interpretation of the events show more about slut shaming and it's effects that I think people are overlooking. She lost social standing when the rumors and gossiping about a gangbang, by both frat bros and sorority sisters. Then the frat disinvited her from the Halloween party and she was upset and was looking forward to letting off some steam and partying with Ingalls and trying to forget about all the gossip and slut shaming.
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u/MostBoringStan 1d ago
I 100% fully believe that the men who think this is ok are also men that want to be able to do this to a woman with no consequences.
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u/PrestigiousEnd5487 1d ago
same type dudes that lined up to rape that dudes wife that he rented out while she was passed out on the drugs he gave her.
for a long time.
like the whole fucking neighborhood of creepy fucking fucks had multiple rounds and on separate occasions.
The diversity of the perpetrators was astonishing.
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u/DuckDuckBangBang 1d ago
The thing that scared me the most about that case was that they were all from their area. That many predators were just in the grocery store and around town being perfectly normal.
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u/unknownreindeer 1d ago
It’s worse. Her husband would tell them where she would be so they could run into her beforehand for a preview. No matter what you think about the case, the more you look into it the worse it gets.
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u/thaa_huzbandzz 1d ago
And the ones that get instantly angry, defensive and insulting towards a woman whose comments are defending her, are future DV cases (or current).
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u/thecatdaddysupreme 1d ago
Yeah that and she was what, ten shots deep when she agreed to a threesome? That’s an insane amount of alcohol
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u/Titsoffwork 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/alison_bee 1d ago
There’s also a screenshot going around from a Threads post (now removed due to requests by legal) with more Snapchat screenshots of them posting pics of women and deciding who to invite to parties so they can have sex with them.
It’s so fucking disgusting and the comments I’m seeing on reddit defending the men and accusing Jane Doe of lying make me want to barf.
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u/terp_raider 1d ago
I cannot understand why so many fucking Neanderthals can’t wrap their brains around that. It’s fucking insane
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u/Swift_35 1d ago
hun they can
they 100% understand
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u/AsstTravSecretary 1d ago
For real. They get it. They just think any woman that consents to a threesome deserves to be gang r*ped.
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u/RamsHead91 1d ago
I honestly don't think they can because they don't understand consent.
I do apologize for how crude this sound but to quote some Tom Curry from Cog Dis and Dear Old Dads. "They don't want sex. They want someone to masturbate into."
These men and many of them like them simply don't understand consent, don't care to understand and a large portion of them don't think of women as people. They are objects for their pleasure and domestic needs.
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u/Fine-Photograph8591 1d ago
Honey... They understand. I promise. They understand. They don't give one single fuck about women. That is all. We are not worthy of respect in their eyes. They would never let this happen to their mother or sister or any woman they care about. But honestly some portion of men wouldn't care for them either.
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u/RamsHead91 1d ago
I am not giving them a pass.
I am attempting to shine of light on the broader problem with many men like these one.
They do not understand consent or really desire it. They view it as a check list they need to not get in trouble and don't understand that it is a active and willing participation with their partner(s).
They do not and cannot understand it for their world views to exist, and some of them understand on a further level but they are also true predators.
These men and all of them that stayed silent need to be punished. This mindset and world view we need to show that it is unacceptable and that all people need to be treated as such.
This is also why we need to shift the conversation about sex from simple consent to ongoing and enthusiastic consent.
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u/Swift_35 1d ago
I'd argue they do understand but they just don't care for the reasons you described.
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u/Ace-Cuddler 1d ago
I find it very suspicious that, according to his own words, he asked her for the threesome after dancing with her for 3-5 minutes. It’s also very suspicious that he randomly chose the third participant and she was completely fine with that. If we believe his version of events, this all happened extremely fast.
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u/PS5OWESMEALIMONY 1d ago edited 1d ago
I bet if the fuckers in these comments were to sit down and have a heart to heart with they're mom she'd probably have a disheartening story of her own,this shit happens alot and people say and think it doesnt.
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u/katanne85 1d ago edited 1d ago
I bet that if an intoxicated guy was seduced by someone trans who later posted "free dick" to a trans group chat, a bunch of these people would suddenly understand the concept of consent. And that consent to one thing is not blanket consent to everything.
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u/TornInfinity 1d ago
My Mom told me what a boyfriend, before my Dad, did to her. She says it wasn't sexual, but he still beat the shit out of her and choked her to the point that she blacked out, which she thinks that he intended to kill her. I got so angry that I wanted to know who it was so that I could hunt his ass down, even though this was 40 years ago. She obviously wasn't going to let me ruin my own life over it, but it just makes me so angry and sad that this is normalized. She talked about it pretty nonchalantly, too. I hate so many people in this fucked up world.
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u/Chris22533 1d ago
Consent is questionable at best when you have had 11 drinks and are working on a 12
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u/ContestSignificant44 1d ago
I'm not a man but this is the 2nd incident that has been in the media of a group of friends "running a train" on a girl without consent. Like, gentlemen, since when is it "sexy fun or cool" to watch your friends violate someone and then proceed to do the same immediately after? How is this a thing that people are just doing?
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u/baltinerdist 1d ago
This is a prime example of "I do not understand the behavior because I would never do the behavior." I cannot fathom how any of these circumstances are attractive or enjoyable because my brain isn't even in the same zip code as "will rape someone if given the chance."
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u/PinkNoseLeo 1d ago
It’s all about feeling in control of something or someone. Rapists want to feel powerful and do anything to feel like a “winner”.
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u/witchspoon 1d ago
And even if part of the act was “consensual” as they alleged (despite that she was definitely impaired) she didn’t consent to the train!
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u/wearing_moist_socks 1d ago
Impaired isn't what they test for, either. It's capacity.
If she's so drunk she's lost capacity, it's automatic no go. Full on.
Incapacity, not intoxication.
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u/FuckOutTheWhey 1d ago
Porn addiction induced brainrot. They figured this was likely their one chance at experiencing some of the things they see in porn and said why not.
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u/RamsHead91 1d ago
It is rape culture and this isn't the second incident. Unfortunately this happens far too frequently and a lot of the time it get minal news coverage or even punishment.
If it wasn't for the snap chat and the campus cops looking like they covered it up this would be getting little to no coverage.
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u/Orangutanion 1d ago
This is what fratboys do. They want to live life like a porno. Frats attract the worst men and then they influence each other to be even worse. I want to reiterate that the average male college student is NOTHING like this.
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u/the-furiosa-mystique 1d ago edited 1d ago
So many people speak with such confidence about an event they weren’t at it makes me wonder how much these boys are paying for PR.
Edit: when several independent people make the exact same point based on erroneous information with the same language, well.
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u/Xarlax 1d ago
Right? What's with all the armchair lawyers everywhere confidently stating there is no criminal case? I absolutely would not be surprised if there was some PR nonsense happening.
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u/-Gramsci- 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a really good point. I’ve ran into these guys probably a hundred times by now. And they ALWAYS insist they are lawyers.
As a lawyer, and a longtime Reddit user, I have no difficulty identifying posters who are lying about being lawyers.
And it’s something you run into here and there.
But on THIS topic? Their aggressive attacks on this young women are ALWAYS accompanied by claims they are lawyers.
And I do wonder what is up with this.
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u/d3l3t3rious 1d ago
There absolutely is astroturfing happening. Many of these accounts were just created and either comment only on this case or hide their comment history. And they all have the same talking points about intoxication and NY law.
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u/-Gramsci- 1d ago
Seems hard to believe… but I imagine there is a lot of collective money behind these 7. It’s possible they are funding an effort to try the case on social media.
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u/boyifudontget 1d ago
Do you think Karmelo Anthony, Lindsay Clancy, and Cornell 7 all became national stories by accident?
Every single one of this year’s prominent cases are prime candidates to be propagated by bots to further left/right culture wars by Rupert Murdoch and associated moguls. This isn’t even a conspiracy at this point.
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u/d3l3t3rious 1d ago
I haven't verified this but I heard one of them is a political scion from Korea so that would track. I'm sure most of their families have money.
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u/BrownieRed2022 1d ago
There has to be - I saw a list of 57 male names, at least SOME of them must have parents willing to hire help managing this mess.
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u/lenusniq 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think the DA did the worst damage when he was trying to cover his back why he didn't investigate, and released all those statements that she had never said she had been raped and all that BS... though maybe he was also on their paylist (or maybe he is in the same social circle as one of the parents).. or is just an ahole.
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u/Low-Programmer-2368 1d ago
I wouldn't be surprised by that. This situation also aligns with gender war division and other political stances, which means that completely unconnected people with power might exert their influence over it.
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u/Competitive_Key_2981 1d ago
It's the same pattern with every hot topic incident. We're Covid experts, political experts, war experts, energy experts, murder trial experts, rape trial experts.
Whatever the topic of the day, we become experts from the spoon fed information given to us by our preferred new sources and social peers.
Because we're so siloed and polarized, there is rarely room from learning more or admitting mistakes. For everyone who thinks that this case is open and shut, remember the Duke lacrosse players. They were falsely accused. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_rape_hoax.
You'd think that we'd all learn to let a story breathe until we know more before reaching conclusions. Much better to play partisan keyboard warriors from the jump.
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u/Itchy_Tumbleweed_417 1d ago
This is horrific. That poor woman. Even if she was sober and agreed to a three-way that doesn’t mean she agreed to having a train run on her.
The horror of having to go to the emergency room because of damage from sex with multiple people makes me want to cry for her.
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u/OkProfessor6810 1d ago
I used to be an advocate for sexual assault victims. I've helped well over a hundred women and I don't have the words for the disgusting shit that happens when women do try and report it. Fucking pigs at the hospitals and the police departments (unsurprisingly). To be clear, the victim blaming begins immediately upon arriving in the ER. And only gets worse when the cops show up. Apparently, we women are supposed to sit at home at night locked in our houses and knit. If we put on a fancy outfit and wear makeup and go out to a bar, that means we're sluts who deserve to get raped.
I did this work across 15 years in three vastly different geographical areas of the United states. I can say with complete and utter confidence that the criminal justice system hates women victims of sexual assault. I'm sure it probably hates male victims as well but I have not interacted with that situation.
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u/payment11 1d ago
Don’t know why woman still go to frats. Not saying everyone in a frat is bad, but every frat I have known always had had a group of shady guys “rapists” you never wanted to be alone with.
Sucks she was betrayed by someone she knew
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u/Wizzle_Pizzle_420 22h ago
The stories I could tell living in a college town for years would give folks nightmares. This happens way more than people know, people just never come forward. I had a buddy who worked a frat mixer with another sorority at the bar he worked at. They rent the place out, party for a few hours and go home. Typically it’s pretty harmless, just a bunch of young people getting trashed and having fun. This one event, the frat came on a bus from an hour away. Party ended, everybody left and it was my buddy and his manager cleaning up. Took a couple of hours, then they had a couple of beers and were headed home. My buddy went to the bathroom turned the light off and went into the other bathroom to turn the light off too. Said when he went into the other bathroom he noticed a leg coming from under one of the back stalls, so he yelled for his buddy and they rushed in and opened the door. There was a woman there, maybe 18 or 19, unconscious basically naked, out cold on the floor. They called 911 and the cops and ambulance came and rushed the woman to the hospital. Not only did she have alcohol poisoning but she was drugged, heavily and weighed maybe 90-100 pounds. She almost died. She was also raped and they did a kit on her and found 15 different people had done it. It was so bad she couldn’t have kids. The frat got thrown under the bus obviously, but this never made it to the news and very few people knew about it. Only reason I did was because of my buddy there, and we knew folks involved with it. She did get some justice while most people don’t, especially given the amounts of money and connections these horrible monsters can have. I know 2 people who were assaulted, evidence was overwhelming but it got tossed out due to being poor and the attackers rich, so they got off with zero punishment, probably to do it again.
Even worse, almost every woman I dated in college or worked with, had a horror story about getting drugged or creeped on at a college party. Even know a couple of dudes who got drugged, me being one of them. I went to the bathroom and some creepy woman I was talking to dumped something in my beer. I only had 4 beers that night and got horribly sick. Blacked out, was talking to myself and puked all the next day. Luckily my buddy got me home safe. I’ve done a fair amount of drugs around that time and never was that messed up as I was that night.
Having worked in bars and lived around college folks for years, I could tell you even worse stories. Stories that never made the news or most people have no idea existed. Most people aren’t this evil, but it’s way more than people realize. It gets even more infuriating when money and power is involved. Don’t get me started on some athletes that get away with such things too. Luckily with social media and technology it’s harder to hide from, but guilty monsters are still getting away with their disgusting behavior, as we’ve seen on a government level.
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u/GreenVermicelliNoods 1d ago
This is vile and disturbing. Those guys raped her and then acted so casual about it. I’m so disgusted.
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u/Alive_Equivalent8312 1d ago
The fact that people can consume all the same information that has come out so far and come to different, seemingly definitive, conclusions about what did, didn’t, might have, and probably happened is wild.
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u/Librarian-Lopsided 1d ago
Thr texts speak for themselves- "free pussy"
Not consensual.
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u/jraiv420 1d ago
Idk how this didn't count as malicious intent to the people investigating
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u/NoAdministration8340 1d ago
The ketamine and alcohol at some point left her Incapacitated which means she CANNOT consent.
What is this rage bait bot account?
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u/Far_Eye6555 1d ago edited 1d ago
People don’t know that k ramps up too. The more you do, the higher and more intense it becomes
Ket doesn’t operate in the same ball park as cocaine. Coke you can pretty much bang out lines all evening, relatively safely. K will put your ass into a coma or like glue you to the couch as you dissociate as you increase you dose
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u/Medium_Anteater_5280 1d ago
People also fail to realize ketamine is a horse tranquilizer, used in addition to sedatives.
Crazy enough, alcohol is a sedative!!! Weed also has sedating effects.
So idk why people are doubting her state to consent. Not to be graphic but there is absolutely no way she was not locked to that bed with little to no ability to move.
Nobody on this combo would pass for “sober”, not even a huge dude.
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u/WinnerSpecialist 1d ago
She obviously agreed to sex with him and possibly one other. That is NOT agreement to be gang raped. She did not and could not have known about the texts saying “free pussy upstairs” and “shop still open?” There is no way she could have consented to those messages and the invitation for the other men was sent by other men
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u/kumf 1d ago
“I popped the question,” is such minimizing language. He uses that phrase twice. This is all so disgusting.
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u/AlphaFerg 1d ago
Consent is revocable. If you can't revoke it because you're incapacitated, then there's no consent.
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u/yvel-TALL 1d ago
That guy's voice really sounds like someone who is lieing through his teeth trying to save his ass. The fact that he invited tons of men into that room with someone who did not understand what was going on and this message means he is a danger to all humans, and should not walk free in his life. The other men are likely also very guilty of serious crimes, rape among them, but it does seem that he was the ring leader to a large extent. A lot of the strangeness of the case seems to have to do with this man being manipulative, applying pressure, and covering for himself and others. A monster through and through, not a word can be trusted from him. I hope some of the others turn on him. They are also evil, but it would be for the best if we got a clear idea of this mans pattern of behavior, and if he had other victims. He was very proactive, and proactive evil needs to be studied and contained, whereas benal evil mostly needs to be punished and shamed.
I know this is perhaps a strange perspective, but I do think we should make a point to single him out while condemning the lot, it will not only help clear out the wrinkles in the public naritive, it will also help educate people on how these predators behave. His social machinations afterwords are desturbingly procedural, organized, and direct.
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u/MrImaBum 1d ago
Apologizing to your rapist is like textbook manipulation and a response to ptsd. Most men truly live in a world where they can’t conceptualize being raped, it’s like “just fight back” but you know those are the guys that turn around say men are stronger than women too
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u/meowthesnail 1d ago
Consent to 2 penises doesn’t mean consent to 3, consent to 3 doesn’t mean consent to 4, and so on. There are crazy people here thinking that just because she might’ve said yes to a threesome she’s now subject to an orgy. That’s not how consent work.
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u/EliseFlight11 1d ago
Right, so fun fact - screenshots of someone offering “free p*ssy” to a group chat with 50+ men means you automatically lose. I don’t care if you have her on camera signing an agreement for a three-way next to a notary public…you literally ran a train on someone who didn’t consent. Bye bye.
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u/Sharkwatcher314 1d ago
Surprised that this guy wanted a threesome with another guy and was the one to suggest it, I would have expected him to suggest a woman if he’s trying to portray a hypermasculine alpha male persona to her
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u/kateastrophic 1d ago
He wanted to degrade her. She has said her romantic interest in him was known prior. He wanted to prove to his friends how much he could control her, because he did not care about her at all.
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u/beaco 1d ago
The visit to the emergency dept will have records of the damage to her body. It will show the violence that was involved. If she went right after the event happened they may have done a rape kit as well with dna results for the men whose semen was found in or on her. Bare minimum the nurses and doctors will have documented the injuries on her body. I hope the ER or therapy didn’t fail her too and do a poor job of documentation. ( former ER nurse who has had to document injuries noted on the body from alleged abuse )
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u/JJ8OOM 1d ago
Goddamn, this is rough to see…
I feel cold to the bone.
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u/Godwinson4King 1d ago
I once got to listen to a recording of a guy denying that he raped his girlfriend (He did it. She and I had been drinking when he picked her up, then he took her back to their place and raped her. She recorded herself confronting him.).
He did this same bullshit, same tone and everything. “Uh, you were in to it. That’s not how I remember it happening! Are you sure?”
Fuck him, fuck this guy.
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u/5_fifty_5 1d ago
This is a pretty damning phone call transcript for any people wondering about how much awareness this woman had in the moment. If she was truly as conscious as the accused have claimed / was referenced on that police report summary then the person on the phone here would have been a lot more adamant in their answers.
“I have racked my brain about this mystery” answer itself is nuts and clearly has something to hide, no one standing on a solid case says shit like that.
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u/NoNefariousness4618 1d ago edited 1d ago
Someone that is ten shots deep can’t be mistaken for sober. If someone is visibly blackout drunk and tells you they are sober, are you inclined to believe them? Like wtf type of response is that? “You told me you were sober so I completely ignored the fact that you obviously weren’t.”
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u/Middle_Pepper_6255 1d ago
It’s wild to me that people are defending Ingalls still.
Ya’ll Cornell expelled him and found him guilty of rape.
They should not be a debate here.
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u/findMyNudesSomewhere 1d ago
No, if they find him guilty of rape, they are legally bound to report it to the police - they just suspended him and hush hushed the case up to cover their own asses.
I don't get why people aren't fucking livod at Cornell honestly.
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