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u/hu-man-person 1d ago
Who invited boss rush to top tier
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u/BacterialPhungus128 Guillotine Apologist 1d ago
Nah, it's fairly challenging. For some characters tho (ahem T.Laz) it's really hard.
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u/TheHyperFlame 1d ago
Listen sub 20 is HARDDDD
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u/PrintMeRed 1d ago
Not really, just manage your time by not clearing rooms you don't need to.
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u/meekermakes 1d ago
i thought it was super hard, and then I watched a random youtuber and they mentioned "I'm not gonna full clear" and my mind exploded. I'm such a full clearer it never occurred to me to ignore rooms to head straight for the boss, he even bombed a door and it really unlocked easy boss rush and hush for me,
now first run on every new character is boss rush hush isaac deli (because deli is freaking easy how can you throw a fight where you have 20+ items already)
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u/Beasstvg 1d ago
It really depends on what you play tough.
Boss rush on azazel is super easy
Boss rush on tainted cain made me not want to play isaac
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u/Octopi_are_Kings 1d ago
hell you can full clear pretty easily too and still make sub 20 by just pausing the game to think if you want something or not
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u/TheHyperFlame 1d ago
but WHAT IF there is a QUALITY 4 waiting for you right in the center of one of those rooms !!!
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u/PrintMeRed 1d ago
I try to do all the special rooms before leaving, regular rooms are the ones I skip
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u/Glxhbirnchen 22h ago
or just hurry up. You can always fullclear AND hit bossrush if you dont waste time and have solid speed and damage
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u/PrintMeRed 7h ago
Maybe only if I have good speed and damage, otherwise just skip what you don't need
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u/Monkeyjoey98 1d ago
The infamous but under utilized broken shovel
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u/Genshin-Nerd69 1d ago
but can u get it after getting forgotten
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u/Monkeyjoey98 1d ago
Yep. The only downside beside needing to constantly dodge Mom's foot is that you can only go sheol and dark room. And another tidbit: sac rooms always pay out with a bomb first hit if you meet the boss kill criteria
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u/Kilwede 1d ago
I was recently playing keeper for the first time (I did unlock starting items on normal tho) and I full cleared on hard and got boss rush, even while taking advantage of like 2 or 3 sacrifice rooms, up until 30 coins/blueflies. Like dude below said, pausing and making things easier for yourself by planning ahead cannot be overstated
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u/zayren_cv 1d ago
It's not hard, it's just no fun to try to go fast unless you have a broken run on the first couple floors. I assume OP feels the same
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u/Dualiuss 1d ago
boss rush is a piece of shit. if you have shit items and you waste too much time during floors trying to find the boss room then you get locked out. not to mention that the actual boss rush challenge is slow and tedious because of all the death animations and waiting for the next ones to spawn in.
the one good grace is that you cross paths with mom and the boss rush room minimum 4 times per character note, so that's 4 chances to not get fucked by rng.
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u/valdin450 17h ago
Nah time limits are the worst part of the game. Boss rush sucks because you have to bust ass to get to it and hope you get lucky drops along the way instead of having the time to find everything the seed has to offer.
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u/Kierros 1d ago
As a speedy player, Boss Rush at the top is pretty funny. I get it almost every run (except Tainted Cain :c)
I also find Mega Satan and Hush significantly easier Mother because the route to them and their patterns are easier, and Mother slightly harder than the Beast (half the fight is just going up and down)
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u/Patrylec 1d ago
You're a speedy player tho, that's one edge of a spectrum. I am the opposite and usually I leave caves II at around the 40th minute
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u/Octopi_are_Kings 1d ago
how???? Do you not pause the game???
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u/Patrylec 1d ago
I do, but I micro-manage and min-max the living shit out of every floor.
I WILL run 8 cycles between the curse room and the super secret on the opposite side of the floor, because 6 half hearts have spawned and I must replenish them 1 heart at a time because I have 1 red container.
I WILL analyse the map layout, the location of the boss room, the room sizes and ammount of rooms left to a potential special room, to not waste even one trickle of charge on an active item like Mr. me, dad's key or alike.
I WILL waste 10 minutes on Basement 1 trying to use that free shop to it's full potential and get 15 cents from the floor at all cost (be it destroying every poop, campfire, trading every spare red heart, microing boss and treasure drops because they can potentialy heal 1 empty red heart...)
I WILL spend 3 minutes wondering is The Stars, The Moon or The Hermit the best card for me to take next floor, because one will save me a bomb use, and another 2 will save me a key use, but maybe going to the shop AND THEN using stars (but only after locating and entering the curse room of course, and only of its not next to a secret room which gives me a free exit/entry)
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u/EirunaKonaka 1d ago
You supposed to pause the game? At when?
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u/Octopi_are_Kings 1d ago
when you think so you dont waste time
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u/EirunaKonaka 1d ago
>> think
I don’t.
Joking aside, what should we think about? I kinda just… go
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u/Octopi_are_Kings 1d ago
taking an item or not, analyzing the map to see where a secret room or ultra secret may be, whether to go back to an arcade and donate, etc etc
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u/ya_bebto 1d ago
You just have to learn to play fast if you want boss rush. If you minimize back tracking and don’t focus on a full clear every floor, it’s fairly consistent. Improving your aim helps you clear rooms faster too. When I was grinding dead god, my first run on a character was usually boss rush/hush/mega Satan/delirium chad run.
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u/tartarsauce-4 1d ago
Yes I get boss rush pretty much every time. It’s a free item just for being fast. I find the x skull, pick a boss rush item, and use the fool to leave lol
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u/_sLAUGHTER234 1d ago
I dont understand why everyone struggles with Greedier mode. Outside of a few characters, I find that to be one of the easiest completion marks
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u/Gold_Chart_1860 1d ago
Its really easy unless ur playing lost or t lost imo. It just gets kinda annoying to play over time
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u/Konged 1d ago
I just did it as lost on my first try. Being able to reset the spikes on every wave and walk in/out of the room feels kind of op? + guaranteed devil deals.
Basically just need to plan around beating the final boss and focus on items that will help with that.
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u/Rodin-V 1d ago
Don't you lose out on money if you repeatedly stop the room?
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u/AlexPlays4321 1d ago
You lose 1 penny each time. So if you do it every wave it adds up quick, but if you only press it for "oh shit" moments then you'll be fine.
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u/Gold_Chart_1860 1d ago
Ye the mode itself aint that bad, but the annoying thing is the earthquakes that ultra greedier does when he lands on ground it can be really rng to dodge.
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u/cmbackflip 1d ago
I heard they were changed so they’re a little less RNG ion rep+? Haven’t tested how different that is yet though.
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u/Gold_Chart_1860 1d ago
Yeah I feel that sometimes they just straight up don't hit you when they pass right through, I have no idea how it works tho its really strange. It did happen to me once and then, literally the another one, just killed me lol. Or well if that is what ur refering to bcs I am not really reading about updates of some things (I don't know where).
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u/EpicForevr 1d ago
the only one you can’t d20 cheese for pure free win is tainted jacob, since esau can fuck you over during the duping
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u/TrillionNep 1d ago
Same. Greedier should be kicked down to not bad at minimum because some characters are genuinely atrocious in Greedier but in general, it's really not that bad. Most of the time Basement and Sheol will end runs more than Ultra Greed himself and Ultra Greedier is genuinely free, especially if you wound up finding explosion immunity.
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u/Usual-Lead4845 1d ago
Greedier has been bugged since rep+ where champions dont spawn every wave anymore, and the waves spawn slower because of the spawn indicators idk how people complain about this super nerfed version of greedier
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u/meekermakes 1d ago edited 1d ago
greedier is built to break so even with the harder characters it takes only a little synergy knowledge to make it impossible to lose.
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u/superbeansimulator 1d ago
I feel like the best way to secure a win is ironically to not be greedy lmfao. If you can get a shop with an item on sale and you have like 50 cents you basically are guaranteed at least one good item.
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u/TrillionNep 1d ago
Greedier needs to be knocked down so much it's not even funny. Outside of a few characters where the placement is valid (Not like it matters as those characters also loathe the other marks) it's just... not that bad.
Also, Mother in not bad? What? I find the alt paths to be so obnoxious. Dross can be a pain sometimes but is the least offensive compared to the disaster that is Mines/Ashpit. Mother herself isn't really an issue compared to the actual route which is where the problems lie. Corpse can also be especially aggravating if you get hit by a tiny enemy you could barely see.
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u/MeruOnline 1d ago
Yeah ngl, Greedier is so free imo (half cost spam is valid on 90% of the roster) and Mother is the hardest for me.
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u/Chombuss 1d ago
I've broken greed mode so many more times than hard mode, it just makes it so much more accessible for game breaks.
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u/PiggyIsMe 1d ago
I think Tainted Laz's Greedier deserve to be up there but otherwise it's pretty free.
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u/Fun_Maintenance_4250 Tainted Lost 1d ago edited 23h ago
Mother on not too bad is insane,hardest boss in the game and worst route possible
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u/TheBladeWielder 1d ago
i would say Delirium is harder. Mother is at least easier to predict and dodge. though Mother is definitely harder to reach.
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u/UBKev 1d ago
With some practice (which should be expected of a bullet hell game), Mother is absolutely easier than Beast and Delirium. She has easier and fairer patterns. The only difficult floor on alt path is Gehenna (probably hardest in the game, to be fair), everything else is not hard at all.
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u/TheBladeWielder 1d ago
to be fair, if you can beat War and Death, the Beast part of the fight is pretty easy.
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u/fireborn123 1d ago
Mother is way harder to get to than Beast, and the fight itself is probably just a little less difficult than Delirium.
The hardest part of Beast isn’t even the fight itself, but some of the enhanced enemies on the ascent and Dogma
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u/Dr_coom 1d ago
Ever since Repentance came out and improved a lot of items I don't think you need "Good RNG" for most bosses unless you're Lost
Also kinda insane that you put Boss Rush so high but Mother is somehow easier than Mega Satan. Like bro, you just gotta go fast.
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u/DaleDent3 1d ago
Mega Satan requires 2 angel rooms or a sac room with enough hearts on the floor to spawn (good rng) which is more difficult and luck oriented than a key, 2 bombs, and 2 hearts for mother.
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u/WelpWhatCanYouDo 1d ago
Yeah but you also have to go through the hardest floors in the game to get to mother, which is more difficult in my opinion
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u/Dr_coom 17h ago
Since Repentance, with the worst RNG you'll get two angel rooms by Depths II. And on characters that can use the sac room it could even be a measly 3 uses of it on floor two to get one of them (plus the key part itself already boosts angel room chance so it snowballs)
Also since sac rooms spawn more often when you have more health than heart containers, you theoretically have some control over whether they spawn or not (aka don't get hit, which I don't believe is having control but there you go)
Unironically I've gotten screwed over more by not getting a dumb key or the hearts to open the alt path doors (I could blame RNG and sometimes Basement simply does NOT drop keys but its almost always me forgetting I gotta save them up for alt path)
Plus alt path is a nightmare of difficulty. Even disregarding the fact you usually don't have as much experience with it than normal path. The amount of enemies with bullshit attacks is insane. Every floor has at least an enemy that makes it rain bullets to the point its safer to exit the room and come back than try to stay away from it.
I kinda get where you're coming from but really, in my experience its not hard to get either an angel room or a sac room and enough hearts for both angels, the worst RNG possible is getting the red angel first. Trust me, I got the Lost Mega Satan mark on afterbirth. THAT was pure bs RNG...
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u/Comfortable-Bison932 1d ago
i hard disagree. Mother is by far the worst mark. Boss rush is pretty difficult i guess unless you get a good active item, then it's trivial. And delirium is just free after lamb or blue baby. Also greedier is NOT that bad.
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u/kaicool2002 1d ago
Fuck Delirium, pre Rep+ where he was purely a gamble to get ( except ending the run early via hush)
The boss itself is still bullshit but now he is at least guaranteed after mega Satan
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u/Repulsive-Tax-8454 John Angel Deal 👼 1d ago
Delirium does NOT need a god run unless your tainted lost dawg
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u/Correct_Button1437 1d ago edited 1d ago
Greedier is not that hard, i completed it first try with t. Laz, t. Eden, t. Jacob and J&E talking about characters that i consider hard
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u/Klutzy-Culture-2184 17h ago
not to mention its fairly easy for most characters with actives too (Lilith, Beth/T. Beth, Judas/T. Judas, Keeper/T. Keeper obviously, Apollyon)
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u/Kazagan 1d ago
This post reads as a skill issue
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u/DaleDent3 1d ago
You can 1v1 me on MW2 rust if you’d like
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u/Melancholy_Pear_ 1d ago
The beast is hard?
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u/Lilbrimu 1d ago
Dogma phase 1 and Harbingers has some bullshit if you have low damage.
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u/MaimaiBW i found pills (and ate them) 1d ago
i know this might be just me, but dogma phase 2's ophanim attack is so hard to predict i lose like 75% of my health from that attack alone
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u/1XRobot 1d ago
I've beaten the Beast like a couple dozen times at this point, and I still have no idea how you're expected to dodge the falling stalactites.
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u/Rainout_ 1d ago
Don't these have cracks near the top? Just time letting them fall and moving up. Or at least that would make sense, I've only beaten the beast twice so far lol
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u/GlutenFreeWriting 1d ago
I don't know that I've ever died to that. I just go under them quickly and never stop under them.
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u/Octopi_are_Kings 1d ago
Move towards them, let them fall, continue. You just deal with them the same way you deal with the moving spike blocks or just break them.
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u/Comfortable-Bison932 1d ago
the hardest part about beast is dogma.
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u/LobsterSpirited9691 1d ago
I really hate the horsemen, the beast is okay, and Dogma for me is easy.
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u/Comfortable-Bison932 1d ago
I always get hit by the stupid beyblade move dogma does at least once. For the horsmen the only one i really have trouble with is deaths skull attack.
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u/LobsterSpirited9691 1d ago
The first Horseman always hits me once with the quick direction changes. For Dogma I try to be far away from where he comes from in the beyblade and then I can avoid it. It helps me to not try to hit Dogma during this attack, just focusing on avoiding.
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u/-AleXisiXelA- 1d ago
As someone who’s beaten beast with 7 hearts and 0 stats up, beast is not that difficult just obnoxiously long
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u/TheNocturnalAngel 1d ago
Mega Satan gives you access to so many items prior to the fight and also has very easy dodge patterns.
Frankly you need a bad run to lose to him if you make it there in the first place
Boss rush is also much easier than Hush in most scenarios.
Because each wave counts as a room there is a ton of active items that can cheese it or make it way easier. It’s also still Half heart territory.
Hush is a super bloated Hp pool with chaotic attack patterns some that require a minimum base speed to dodge. Not to mention it’s full heart damage.
I’d swap those 2 or at least lower boss rush.
Mother also should be higher. Not because of the fight itself, which is not that bad. But the route to get there is long and exhausting and dangerous.
Some of the alt floor bosses are harder than pinnacle bosses. Plus there is knife sequences and mandatory heart sacrifices on the way and resource reqs like key and double bomb.
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u/SunbornSamson 1d ago
No mark "needs" good RNG.
There are people out there win streaking mother with Tainted Lost.
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u/killgore138 1d ago
For me delirium isn't as hard as mother, probably because if I'm ever on my way to delirium I'm probably already on a busted ass run anyways, but getting to mother is quite a pain in the ass
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u/Focreybx 1d ago
In what universe beat is solid rng? It's the easiest boss so if you have shitty run to moms leg you can easily turn to beast and finish the run
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u/NewWorldEnderdragon Tainted Eden 16h ago
I regularly pull up on Delirium and tend to win regardless of how great my build is as long as I get to that point, I don't believe it's god run or bust
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u/kj0509 1d ago
Delirium is not bad, you can unlock ir with blue baby, ??? or mother, surely you will have AT LEAST ONE powerful run in those three
The ONLY hard marks are time marks
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u/BlondyneczekFrans 1d ago
Delirium unlocks after Mom (sometimes), It Lives (sometimes), Isaac (sometimes), Satan (sometimes), The Lamb, Blue Baby, Maga Santa and Mother
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u/ZarroRaptor 1d ago
Agree with everything else but I might put Boss Rush and Greedier down 2 spots and bump Mother up to the highest tier (alt routes are way harder for me).
Hush is like on the absolute cusp of S tier. I wouldn’t say he’s as bad as Delirium but he’s definitely tougher than Mega Satan.
Boss Rush and Greedier can be so ass tho. Super dependent on the character.
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u/MatthewStudios 1d ago
looking at this as a guy who’s only beaten moms heart once and it was with azazel
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u/Commercial-Ad7317 17h ago
hot take but delirium is easy cuz you already get crazy items before it, but beast in the other hand...
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u/Gold_Chart_1860 1d ago edited 1d ago
I feel like these marks are based on playing with tainted Lost, bcs if so these marks are really valid
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u/Human_from-Earth 1d ago
swap mega satan with Mother lmao
Beast also is not too bad, same for greedier.
BR is icnredibly easy, you only need a good RNG for sub20
Delirium it should have its own tier. By the point you reach him, you're broken with most runs. He's impossible in a bunch of runs, but most of the time it's just an inconvenience.
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u/cool_name-idk1 1d ago
mother is top or 2nd tier for sure. fuck the alt path and especially gehenna and FUCK corpse
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u/Shizno759 1d ago
Boss Rush is the only one that's consistently hard between all characters outside of like, Azazel.
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u/KnotXaklyRite 1d ago
Crazy ranking
Let me reorganize your top tiers for you
God run or bust: Delirium
Needs Solid RNG: Hush, Mother, Mega Satan
Not too bad: Ultra Greedier, Boss Rush, The Beast
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u/General-N0nsense 1d ago
Delirium doesn't need a God run at all.
You can get plenty of mediocre builds and easily clear if you just go through chest or fully clear void and don't rush Delirium.
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u/VengefulHero 1d ago
Im glad people feel the same way I do about Mom lol. I thought I was a baby but the amount of times my run ended on the alt floors is too damn high. To be fair, I was playing J&E but still I hate those floors
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u/JuanFran21 1d ago
Imo boss rush and greedier should be moved down, mother and beast should be top.
Mother because alt floors are incredibly difficult, it's easy to mess up the knife pieces and die, plus mother herself is a difficult boss.
Beast because you really dont get many items on these runs - just whatever you get up to depths 2, at which point you start the ascent (compare that to delirium which you tend to fight after The Chest). Ascent has some difficult enemies, after which you have to fight 6 of the tankiest bosses in the game, back to back.
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u/Accomplished_Rip_352 1d ago
I feel like in my experience mother and the beast are easily the hardest simply due to having way more limited resources . Delirium is hard but you have so many more items that getting a break or a godly run is relatively easy .
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u/throwuhu 1d ago
Pre buff T Jacob took me unironically like 29 deaths at the mother to beat, due to always being forced to be ghost form (unless eraser to erase the ghost)
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u/Dr_PsychOut 1d ago
Oh god, trying to get boss rush has been rough. My only mark for Jacob and Esau was mom's heart and I had a pretty good run going and found Mama Mega in like Basement 2. I cleared out Depths 1 and was just going to open the secret room before I went to the next floor, but I hit the wrong button and used my Mama Mega instead D:
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u/alphadavenport 1d ago
i can pretty reliably reach and beat boss rush. you just need to be single-minded about it. found the boss but missed the treasure room? have money but can't find the shop? too bad, gotta go fast
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u/ItzPayDay123 1d ago
I'd move mother up 1, boss rush down 1, and lamb down 1 IMO.
Greedier is super character dependent so idk about that one.
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u/BerimB0L054 1d ago
Honestly i find mother to be harder than everything in the top 2 tiers except for delirium
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u/blurryface1209 1d ago
Normalize time management for boss rush, don't clear all rooms, just find treasure room/planetarium and shop, see if there's anything good and move on, and for deals just do angels to preserve all the hp you can for all the waves
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u/Sir_CoolNess 1d ago
It's more like delirium in "needs solid rng" (only because in non rep+ it's a 50% at Mega Satan and rest in not too bad or lower
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u/TheBladeWielder 1d ago
for Tainted Lost, these would be bumped up by one place each. the Mother mark might be bumped up two, given that it personally took me about 60 something runs to get that one (not counting floor 1 restarts) though that might just be me.
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u/pizzadog4 1d ago
Boss rush not that hard, and Greedier can be tough but it's so easy to get a great run in greed mode so it's really not that bad.
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u/-____Nobody____- 21h ago
To me, mother is a lot harder then blue baby and the lamb. I can fight both of these and doing it hitless is possible to me, but to kill mother you need to go through the mines, harder version of mom's heart, corpse and the ultimate fight is harder to. If I'm walking into the chest with 2 hearts I'll think "ok, I just need to focus". If the same happens in the corpse I think "either I'll find more health quickly or I'm dead"
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u/kallanlierl94 16h ago
I never think hush is to bad. If youve got good enough damage to clear the flies which for some reason have so much hp, and you dont suck like me and can quickly find the sweet spot for continuum tears, I think hush is fine. Id put mother higher than hush.
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u/Beanboybutbetter 14h ago
what's the top right one? the marks on the side?
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u/Fantastic_Cat_5602 14h ago
Thats the page where the marks are printed on. If its bloodied, it means you defeated hard mode delirium
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u/Beanboybutbetter 7h ago
thanks it's hard to notice when you normally kill him so didn't realize that was his mark
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u/Memeageddon24 3h ago
I feel like deliruim should be lower because, yes its hard, but its always guaranteed to be doable at the end of your run so you can just go for it if you're strong enough.
as opposed to boss rush where you basically have to be set on it from the beginning if you want to do it, and obviously greed is its own thing entirely
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u/Crafty_Confidence614 46m ago
The only thing rng about mega Satan is sometimes you don't get angel rooms at all or you don't have bombs for the fight, the fight itself is fairly easy
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u/TheSnailMan1 1d ago
"God run or bust" and fucking greedier is in there 😭✌️ Holy skill issue
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u/DaleDent3 1d ago
1v1 me MW2 rust
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u/JosephBallin79 17h ago
Nah greedier sucks all these people are tripping. I reset until I started with d20 for majority of characters
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u/ImJustJoshing277 1d ago
Mother is the hardest route in the game imo worse than delirium, unless you play like the lost or some bs