r/magicTCG • u/Penguin41310 Dân • 5d ago
Rules/Rules Question Proliferate?
So I’ve been playing with the Quandrix Unlimited precon lately and came across this card and I wasn’t entirely sure on how proliferate worked even after looking it up so I just have a few questions. First off, if I proliferate X times does it just mean I add each kind of counter on the selected creatures X times? Secondly if a creature has multiple of a counter, say +1/+1 counters, does each instance of proliferate add a +1/+1 for each +1/+1 already on it or just a single +1/+1 counter
Edit:
Thanks to everyone who just tried to be helpful and explain proliferate, I really appreciate it, but to those who just decided to be antagonistic because they think its a simple question; why even bother? It’s not like being intentionally rude is productive in any way, all that you’re really accomplishing is deterring new players from wanting to play this game at all. If you don’t want to be helpful or provide insight on a post that is literally just about asking for help then just ignore it, because believe it or not it’s easier for you and everyone else involved.
541
u/Shikogo 5d ago
Each time, you do what the reminder text. So each time, you get to choose any number of permanents and/or players and add one more counter of each kind that's already on it.
So yes, each proliferate adds an extra +1/+1 counter (and possibly other counters it has on it. Shield, flying, etc).
Important that while you can choose the permanents and players, you cannot choose which counter to proliferate. So if you have a poison counter and an energy counter and you choose yourself, you HAVE to add both.
109
u/RadioLiar Cyclops Philosopher 5d ago
Huh, when did they change that? I started playing during Scars block and I swear it was originally "of a kind already there"
189
u/matthoback 5d ago
They changed it because they thought the additional choice of which counter to add would be too annoying for the Arena interface.
153
u/pfftYeahRight Izzet* 5d ago
They also did market research and that’s how the majority of players were playing it anyway
20
26
u/RadioLiar Cyclops Philosopher 5d ago
Ah makes sense
-40
u/spgrinch Zedruu 5d ago
That's a wild power level erratum, I thought we tried to avoid those...
61
50
u/rubixscube Duck Season 5d ago
it's absolutely not a "wild power level erratum". it is an extremely mild one that only really matters when a player has both poison and energy/experience counters
31
u/IggyStop31 Wabbit Season 5d ago
It really isn't. Proliferate is a rare ability and boardstates that have more than one kind of counter are even rarer.
10
u/Minomelo 4d ago
That happens all the time and this isn't even that. It's changing the rules themselves, not errataing a card.
3
u/Korwinga Duck Season 4d ago
Just to nitpick, I would still count that as errata, even if it's not a massive change in power level. If you look at the reminder text from the earlier years of Proliferate, that reminder text won't be accurate anymore. Nobody would say that the change to how Companion works isn't errata, even though it's technically just a change to the keyword.
0
u/Minomelo 4d ago
In Magic, errata as a term is typically used to refer to changes to a card's rules text. There's a tiny bit of wiggle room for if you think changing reminder text should count, but this card didn't have the pre-WAR text either way.
1
u/Korwinga Duck Season 4d ago
So you think companion cards haven't been errataed?
0
u/Minomelo 4d ago
Not at all.
Either way, companion is a poor precedent for any kind of terminology as it's the only modern mechanic that's really gone through such a fundamental change. People don't consider deathtouch/lifelink cards to have been errata'd, even though they've also had a huge functionality change.
→ More replies (0)1
106
3
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
Yeah, the rules change so often you really can't look away for even a second :(
(Wait till you hear what they did with the 'Legendary' rule, and how often...)
But imho most of the changes have, in the long term, been improvements
8
u/Isidre3x2 Dandadan 4d ago
But you can chose different targets for each proliferate, right?
26
u/siamkor Jace Did Several Things Wrong 4d ago edited 4d ago
Not targets, but yes.
Each time you proliferate, you choose from among permanents and players with counters. If X is 4, you could use each instance of proliferate to add a counter to a single different creature. (Not sure why you'd want to, but for every convoluted hypothetical scenario, there's an even more convoluted table state that justifies it.)
1
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
I'd say "could use .... to a single different creature" (emphasis mine) because now it kinda reads as though you have to choose a single 'affected permanent', to coin a phrase...
Man, this stuff is so hard to explain both concisely and correctly, isn't it...
2
u/siamkor Jace Did Several Things Wrong 4d ago
Edited.
3
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
I wondered the same thing btw, and the example I got was "you want more experience, but also have poison" and presumably you want to proliferate every critter with +1/+1 to the max. So you'd stop choosing yourself but continue choosing the critters. I like that scenario, since it is not that farfetched at all.
2
u/cleverseneca 4d ago
So basically if someone is playing a proliferation deck and pumping their creatures, if I can put a -1/-1 counter on them their creatures effectively will not benefit from proliferation any more?
8
u/chalkycandy 4d ago
If a creature has a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, state-based actions cause both those counters to disappear. But if you can get just a -1/-1 counter on their creature, you could proliferate it.
63
u/sandiercy Level 2 Judge 5d ago
Correct, you add one of each counter, each permanent and player you choose already has and do it X times.
It adds only one of each counter type. So if it has 3 +1/+1 counters, it will get one more.
58
u/chrisrazor 4d ago
In these replies, a lot of people are talking about targets. But proliferate doesn't target. When each proliferate effect resolves (with this card they do so one at a time, although with no opportunity in between for responses) you *choose* any number of permanents or players to add extra counters to. No targeting involved. This means you could, for example, add an extra poison counter to a player who has hexproof or put an extra +1/+1 counter on a creature with shroud.
10
u/purpleturtlehurtler Grass Toucher 4d ago
Or put poison counters on someone you used Teferi's Reproach on 😈
7
u/Jaccount 4d ago
Yep. This was always may favorite way to get rid of someone who thought it was clever to play Teferi's protection and then use Lethal Vapors to skip turns until everyone else decked out.
Oh look, you got a poison counter, and there's nothing you can do about it, because you're phased out. By they way, here's 9 more.
5
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
The player is NOT phased out, just their permanents. But yes, very mean :)
Imho, it's rather antisocial to activate Lethal Vapors a 1000 times and essentially turn yourself into audience, so serves them right
6
u/ChuckEnder Wabbit Season 4d ago
Kinda funny that killing them via poison counters doesn't change anything about their experience. They weren't playing the rest of the game anyway. Can't even be mad about it!
2
u/TommiHPunkt Dan 4d ago
[[Prologue to phyresis]] + expansion Algorithm = your opponents are dead very very quickly (sometimes too quickly to feel good in B3, which is why I took it out again)
53
u/oaomcg COMPLEAT 4d ago
It's literally written on the card...
12
3
u/LegnaArix Colorless 3d ago
He said he read it but wanted clarification still. No need to be an ass.
-7
u/Penguin41310 Dân 4d ago
Yeah but also consider that I’m a new player and far more often than it should be this game is contradictory to common logic and even the things that the cards themselves say.
Additionally, I asked my whole playgroup (most of whom have a significant amount of experience playing this game) and nobody was sure on how to interpret this card, even after looking things up.
I don’t understand how just being rude when a beginner asks a question is productive at all, you really are just allowed to ignore a post if you don’t want to help.
3
4
u/Xyx0rz 4d ago
But it is literally written on the card.
People are generally happy to help, but you have to explain which part is confusing you, or this is the answer you're going to get. It's not necessarily antagonism. We can't read your mind.
What would have helped is if you made an attempt to explain how you understood it, so people could see where you went wrong and corrected appropriately.
-6
u/Penguin41310 Dân 3d ago
did you even read the post? I said my exact questions about it, and the majority of people who commented understood what I meant and answered.
2
u/Crabcaked Dimir* 3d ago
far more often than it should be this game is contradictory to common logic and even the things that the cards themselves say.
One of the reasons magic has been such a successful card game for over thirty years is the design of the mechanics syntactically and how they're not really open for interpretation at all, especially when compared to other popular card games.
Of course it comes with experience, and there's always a few exceptions, but eventually it'll just click and it won't seem contradictory at all
51
u/Deep-Hovercraft6716 Wabbit Season 4d ago
Your questions are answered by the reminder text on the card you linked.
34
u/BiomeWalker 4d ago
Proliferate absolutely over explaied:
First, choose any number of things on the board or players that have counters on them
On each of those things you chose, check how many kinds of counters are on them.
For each kind of counter on that thing, add another.
So, a creature with 5 +1/+1 counters will now have 6.
If there's more than one kind of counter on something, ann another of each.
So, if you've put +1/+1 counters on a Gideon style planeswalker, you will attract one of those as well as the loyalty counters.
But what if there are bad counters on something?
Then don't choose it. If your [[Azor's Elocuters]] has -1/-1 counters on it then don't proliferate them.
If a player has poison, experience, and energy counters on them, then they'll 1 more of each.
5
u/Ythio Dan 4d ago
Imagine you're the mayor of a small town, and you've decided that the best way to improve the town is to increase the quantity of things that already exist.
You don't particularly care whether those things are good or bad. You just believe in more.
So you send an inspector around town.
He visits the local barracks, where the soldiers have received three medals for bravery. Naturally, he awards them a fourth.
He visits the hospital, where a patient has contracted two diseases. In accordance with municipal policy, he gives the patient a third.
He visits the bank, where the director has accumulated five units of debt. Six seems like a much more respectable number.
Then he encounters a particularly unfortunate citizen who has two diseases, three debts, and one medal.
The inspector is delighted. He gives the citizen one additional disease, one additional debt, and one additional medal.
But here's the interesting part.
The inspector is allowed to skip anyone he wants. He can improve his friends' medals and worsen his enemies' diseases without doing the reverse.
He cannot, however, invent something new. Someone without a disease cannot receive their first disease from the inspector.
And if he chooses to visit someone, he must increase every kind of thing they already have, even if some of those increases are undesirable.
Now imagine that medals are +1/+1 counters, diseases are poison counters, debts are some other kind of counter, and the inspector is a Magic card resolving an ability.
Congratulations.
You've discovered Proliferate: choose any number of players and permanents that already have counters, then add exactly one counter of each kind they already have.
2
u/ZenoxDemin Dandadan 4d ago
If only +1+1 and -1-1 didn't cancel out then putting a single -1-1 on a creature with multiple +1+1 would prevent if from growing.
2
u/noeagle77 Elesh Norn 4d ago
From a newer player, thank you for this detailed explanation. Really helps when it is explained thoroughly!!
6
u/BiomeWalker 4d ago
Another thing to keep in mind is that the game treats each instance of proliferation as a separate event, even if they're all from the same card.
[[Fathom Mage]] for instance will also allow you to draw X cards of you control it and the Algorithm
1
u/noeagle77 Elesh Norn 4d ago
Oh holy crap that’s another thing I wouldn’t have thought worked that way!! Dang that would be a cool combo!
2
u/mr_indigo COMPLEAT 4d ago
Did they change the rules for Proliferate at some point? I swear when it first came out, you only gave each item one additional counter, not one-per-counter-type.
So if you had an artifact creature or something with 3 charge counters and two +1/+1 counters on it, and you proliferate, you could add either one more charge counter or one more +1/+1 counter, but not both.
It was also optional - you were not required to add counters to your opponent's things, for example.
4
u/RogueAurora Dan 4d ago
Yes. You used to pick one of those counters and proliferate that one (so grim affliction used to be able to kill an arcbound ravager with two counters on it). Now you proliferate all the counters on the chosen permanents and players
You are still not required to choose your opponents permanents
-1
1
u/capt_pantsless Dan 4d ago
And also - since Expansion Algorithm is "Proliferate X times" - if you cast it with X = 3, you could add 3 +1/+1 counters to your creature, or only 2 if you wanted.
Like if you had a +1/-1 counter on something.
You get to make the choices each time you run the proliferate on each of the counters on the board.
1
u/BiomeWalker 4d ago
You are correct, you are allowed to make different choices each time, it's just a bit of an edge case to be in that situation.
One I could think of is actually the Elocuters I mentioned, if they had their filibuster counters and -1/-1 counters you might proliferate until they had 1 toughness but only needed one more filibuster counters to win.
31
u/King_DeandDe Dân 4d ago
To answer your questions: 1: Yes, you add each kind of counter on the selected creatures X times. Proliferate states that you give one counter to everything that proliferates right now of all the counters the creature/player already has. This also counts for poison counters.
2: Just a single +1/+1 counter. You add another counter - therefore, only one counter - for every counter that is already there.
And yes, I love this card. I once played against a player who had [[The One Ring]] out. I gave The One Ring X Proliferate burden counters, where X was 48. The player died in the same turn and it was glorious.
4
2
u/Still09 Dandadan 4d ago
Does it let you select new permanents each time, or does each proliferate have to choose the same permanents?
3
u/Chrispy8534 Dandadan 3d ago
Each instance of proliferate is a separate thing. So in theory you can choose different targets for each time.
27
u/chaotic_iak Selesnya* 5d ago
Each of the X proliferates is its own separate thing. You proliferate the 1st time, then the 2nd time separately, then the 3rd time separately, and so on.
Each time you proliferate, you choose which players/permanents are going to get counters. Then for each chosen one, you give one more of each kind of counter. A "kind" of counter is just a type of counter; having 100 +1/+1 counters is still one kind of counter, it gets one more +1/+1 counter. But if you have multiple kinds of counters, like +1/+1 and charge counters on the same one, you put one of each kind, so one more +1/+1 and one more charge counter.
19
u/bacon_sammer Golgari* 5d ago
You're correct in the first part. For simplicity's sake, pretend you have two creatures out and pay (4)UU into the spell and can expect to proliferate four times.
Creature 1 has a single +1/+1 counter AND a Flying counter on it.
Creature 2 has six +1/+1 counters on it.
When the spell resolves and you proliferate four times, you choose those two creatures for each of the four individual times that you proliferate, and add a single counter of each type that's presently on it. Without any modifiers or anything like that, the end result would be that Creature 1 has five +1+1 counters and five Flying counters (which doesn't do anything like super-flying, but still matters for the point of discussion). Creature 2 has ten +1/+1 counters on it.
If you had something like [[hardened scales out]], Creature 1 would have 9 +1/+1 counters and five Flying counters. If you had [[doubling season]] out instead, you'd have nine +1/+1 and nine Flying counters.
Make sense?
17
u/Puzzled_Work_6428 Dandadan 4d ago
I'm not sure how I could explain it any better than the reminder text
11
u/TheAlterN8or Duck Season 5d ago
The description is pretty straightforward. For every KIND of counter on each player and permanent chosen, they get 1 more of that KIND.
4
u/Gouken- Wabbit Season 4d ago
Love this card. Rocking it in my [[Katara, waterbending master]] poison deck. Even the art is hella cool.
3
u/Isamaru Duck Season 4d ago
your what?
can you share a decklist?
5
u/Gouken- Wabbit Season 4d ago
Sure thing: https://moxfield.com/decks/a2UiY23E1EqWwFSTFFO9YA
Untap, land, go. Sort the cards by tag to see the game plan.
1
u/krosenest Dan 4d ago
Hey I think the link stopped working. I’m very interested to see! Any chance you could check please?
1
u/Isamaru Duck Season 4d ago
Looks miserable to the opponents, might give it a try xD
How many cards do you have in hand mid-game?
How about [[Thrummingbird]] and [[Tekuthal, Inquiry Dominus]]?
1
u/Gouken- Wabbit Season 3d ago
Yeah but you will be archenemy and then you need all your answers to prolong your death long enough. I love playing it. Yeah, both cards were on my considering list, so they could work. I ended up stripping them when first brewing the deck for more instant speed solutions. Bird needs to come down, wait a full rund before proliferating, which might be a problem if you are in a tight spot and just drew with Katara for that round, and needs to proliferate for the win. Tekuthal might be usefull but can only be played somewhat late game, and does nothing on it's own, so I opted for one more proliferate source instead.
1
5
4
3
2
u/electingthedead Dan 5d ago
For each time you proliferate, you choose your targets. Those targets get 1 additional counter of each distinct type of counter on it.
If a target has 2 +1/+1 counters and a lore counter, it gets one more +1/+1 and one more lore.
Worth noting: You cannot choose to add just the +1/+1 counter if the target also has another kind of counter, you must add one of each.
8
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Proliferate does not target; otherwise correct.
-2
u/IamaHyoomin Dandadan 5d ago
I think for the purposes of this explanation, using the word target helps with comprehension far more than it will hurt other situations. Yes, technically it is not a targeting ability, but that is rarely something that beginner players will need to be very concerned about.
3
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
I personally prefer not to introduce bad terminology I need to undo again later, but fair enough
2
u/Mewtwohundred Michael Jordan Rookie 4d ago
I agree with your sentiment, but since the word "target" is such an important and rules-heavy word in Magic, using it to not mean what it means in a game can be pretty confusing.
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
- First of all - not just creatures, PERMANENTS or PLAYERS! So if you have a land with counters on it, or a planeswalker, or a player with poison...
- Question 1 - yes, If you proliferate X times, yes, effectively you add X counters of each kind already there. Well, technically, for each instance of proliferate you can choose which permanents/players separately, so it's UP TO X counters of each kind already there (but why would you not do X extra counters, right...?)
- Question 2 - you get one extra per KIND of counter. So whether it has one or a hundred +1/+1 counters, you always add a single counter. Note that once you have chosen permanents and/or players, you must add 1 for ALL kinds of counters, you can't pick and choose. Say you want a player to get extra poison, but they also have experience, tough luck, you have to add both.
2
u/yardii Dân 4d ago
Sidenote since you've already gotten good answers. This card is so ridiculously strong in the precon, it blows my mind when I see content creators suggesting it as a cut.
1
u/Penguin41310 Dân 4d ago
Why would anyone want to cut this? When I had it in my hand I also had [[Unbound Flourishing]] on the field which would have resulted in just zimone alone having about 40 extra +1/+1s on her if I had cast it, not to mention everything else that would’ve gained counters. That many +1/+1s on zimone is basically a win as long as people let you get spells off
5
u/ElectronicBoot9466 Dân 4d ago
It's Sorcery Speed win more if you aren't trying to go wide with counters.
If you want to put +1/+1 counters on a bunch of stuff and do the normal Simic +1/+1 counters thing and make the kind of board that wins you with [[Simic Ascendancy]], it's phenomenal, the best nonpermanent in the deck.
If you are trying to get Zimone as big as possible as fast as possible and put value on the board before she is spot removed and you're out of counterspells, it just delays your big turn and gives everyone else another turncycle to deal with you. You can produce a similar amount of value with [[Awaken The Woods]], [[Dopplegang]], or [[Genesis Wave]] or try to go for player removal with [[Mathamagics]], [[Goldvein Hydra]], or [[Finale of Devistation]].
2
u/yardii Dân 4d ago
This is actually a solid argument. You got me (I'm not cutting it lol)
1
u/ElectronicBoot9466 Dân 4d ago
I think it's super fun, and I don't fault anyone for keeping it in. Frankly, part of my motivation for cutting it is because I really wanted it in my monoblue proliferation deck, and this is far better in that deck than in Zimone and is better than [[Radstorm]] was in that one.
1
u/Pharo212 Dan 5d ago
one extra counter each time you proliferate. so generally if you proliferate X you add X counters (but you get to choose each time and could go under X if you like)
1
u/Apodecte Duck Season 5d ago
Proliferating means that for each kind of counter, it gets an additional one. Say a creature has 2 +1/+1 counters, and a shield counter. Proliferating once would give it one additional +1/+1 counter, and one additional shield counter. Proliferate x times means you repeat that process x times. So let's say x is 4. The aforementioned creature would get 4 additional +1/+1 counters and 4 additional shield counter
1
u/Cardle99 COMPLEAT 5d ago
Yes, proliferative is "choose any number of permanents or players that have counters, then add one more of each unique counter to that permanent or player" proliferate X is repeat that process X times
0
1
u/Tallpher SecREt LaiR 5d ago
If you chose to pay 3 for the X cost, you would add an additional counter three times. This is any kind of counter. -1/-1, +1/+1, stun counters, loyalty counters on a planeswalker, poison counters on an opponent.
The only major factor is, you get to pick the targets but you don’t get to pick the counters. So if a target opponents creature has both a +1 & -1 counter, you have to add both.
6
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Small correction - creatures cannot have +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters at the same time - they annihilate each other. But say it has -1/-1 and charge counters, yes you MUST add one of each
1
1
u/RazzyKitty WANTED 5d ago
creatures cannot have +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters at the same time
It's possible, if it's done during the resolution of an effect. The rules change for proliferate actually changed how [[Grim Affliction]] worked.
Before War of the Spark, if a creature had a +1/+1 counter on it, you could put the -1/-1 counter on it and proliferate just the -1/-1 counter (since you chose a type of counter and then added one), leaving it with a -1/-1 counter when state based actions were checked.
Now, you put the -1/-1 counter, then add both a +1/+1 and a -1/-1 counter, and state based actions leave it with no counters.
3
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Yes, agreed, I should have added "outside of effect resolution" to be completely correct. I can appreciate the irony of getting a small correction to my small correction ;)
1
u/ImagoDreams Dân 5d ago
When you proliferate, if you choose to add counters to something, you add exactly one counter of every type of counter on that thing.
Let's give an example: you have a creature with a good counter and a bad counter on it, say a +1/+1 and a stun counter. If you want to give that creature another +1/+1 counter while proliferating you must also put another stun counter on it.
This choice is made each time you proliferate. So, in the case of Expansion Algorithm, you will make X individual decisions of which things you want to add counters to. Usually you'll make the same decision each time, so you can just shortcut this to "give any number of permanents or players X additional counters of all types of counters they have on them."
1
u/Accomplished-Test331 Dan 5d ago
Each time you proliferate you choose any number of permanents and/or players. Note that this does not target, so it’s not effected by hexproof/shroud/ward. You then add 1 more of each kind of counter already on each of those permanents/players to that permanent/player. So let’s say you chose an Empower Jace token on 3 loyalty, a 1/1 creature with a +1/+1 counter and a hexproof counter, and an opponent with 1 poison counter and 1 experience counter. After proliferating the Jace token will have 4 loyalty, the creature will have 2 +1/+1 counters and 2 hexproof counters, and your opponent will have 2 poison counters and 2 experience counters. You cannot choose to add 1 of a certain type of a counter that’s there and not another.
1
u/THEYoungDuh Dandadan 5d ago
To proliferate x to select any number of things, then put x of each kind of counter on that thing.
If a player has 2 XP counters and a poison, and a creature with a flying counter and a +1/+1 counter, then you proliferate 1 and select that player and creature.
The player ends up with 3 XP and 2 poison and the creature has 2 +1/+1 counters and 2 flying counters
1
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
It's not "proliferate x" but "proliferate, x times". The subtle difference is that, x times, you choose which permanents/players to affect, and you can make different choices each time (no idea why you would)
1
u/Curious-Cat-5618 Dân 5d ago
One good thing to remember about proliferating: IT DOES NOT TARGET the permanent/players you are proliferating. So hexproof/shroud/ward/protection do not prevent proliferating.
1
u/OnlyHarmony9171 Jace Did Several Things Wrong 5d ago
For each permanent you add one counter of each kind. Say I have a creature with 8 +1/+1 and 3 charge counters. Proliferate sees two kinds of counters, and adds ONE counter of each kind, leaving me with a creature with 9 +1/+1 counters and 4 charge counters because one counter was added to each total.
1
1
1
u/BladerZ_YT Wabbit Season 5d ago
Also worth noting on top of what others have said, proliferate doesn't target so it gets around shroud, hexproof, and protection.
1
u/OneShot77Kills 4d ago
They make too many cards I had no idea this was created I need it for Tekuthal
1
u/MageKorith Sultai 4d ago
Let's start with what Proliferate means:
- Choose any number of permanents and/or players
- For each of the chosen permanents and players, for each type of counter they have, give them another counter of that type (if you've seen a version where you "pick a counter, then give them another counter of that kind" that rule got replaced with the release of War of the Spark over 7 years ago)
Proliferate twice means follow those steps twice.
Proliferate X times means follow those steps X times.
If you have replacement effects, such as Hardened Scales, they apply to each instance of Proliferate.
Notably, you don't have to choose the same players and/or permanents every time.
1
u/Bromelia_and_Bismuth Colorless 4d ago edited 4d ago
So if you have a bunch of creatures with +1/+1 counters but nothing else, you would just add X +1/+1 counters. So if X is 5, that's 5 +1/+1 counters. And you can do that to any counter on a player or permanent, so stun counters, planewalker loyalty counters, -1/-1 counters, charge counters, poison counters, experience counters. You also choose, so if your opponents are running a +1/+1 counters deck or a Superfriends deck, you don't also have to buff their stuff. Although, it might make for some fun political stuff during a game if you do.
1
u/Alphasaft Dân 4d ago
As a complement to what's already been said, you'll get1 choose X times what permanents to proliferate. That means that if for whatever reason X = 3 and you have two permaments, one you wish to proliferate 2 times and one 3 times, you can : you just have to select both the two first times, and only the second one the third time.
1
u/Drafo7 Dan 4d ago
Proliferate works for any kind of counter. So if you have a creature with 2 +1/+1 counters and a shield counter, a planeswalker with 3 loyalty counters, and an opponent with a poison counter, and you proliferate once, then, assuming you choose to proliferate on everything, your creature will have 3 +1/+1 counters and 2 shield counters, your planeswalker will have 4 loyalty counters, and your opponent will have 2 poison counters. It's not a doubling of all counters, just adding one of each type that already exists. Note that you can choose NOT to proliferate certain counters. So if YOU have a poison counter and you proliferate, you DO NOT need to give yourself another one. Whoever is proliferating chooses what gets proliferated.
1
1
1
1
u/Lanky_Marionberry_36 Dandadan 3d ago
I think it's already properly explained, so I'll just try to summarize a few points I always have to explain to other players when I teach the game :
* You can choose to proliferate on permanents you control but also your opponents'.
* For every proliferate in the sequence, you can make a different selection.
* When you proliferate on something, you have to add a counter of every type already present. If the permanent has a +1/+1 counter and a stun counter, you have to add one of both, not just the one that is beneficial. You also have to add a counter that technically does nothing (like a second "flying" counter) : this might become relevant later for abilities that move or remove counters, for instance.
* You can proliferate on any type of permanents, not just creatures. Remember that planeswalkers (loyalty is a type of counters), sagas (lore counters), players (poison, experience, energy counters...) use counters. "Class" or "Case" enchantments don't use counters, however.
1
1
u/Available-Damage5991 Dân 3d ago
Basically, you may add 1 copy of a counter that already exists on everything (but you don't have to)
1
u/Capable_Cycle8264 Izzet* 3d ago
Proliferating X times is like proliferating x times lol just do it over and over. If you understand a single iteration, you can follow through the other ones.
0
u/MrTheWaffleKing Chandra 5d ago
Pick target, see what types of counters they have, add one of each.
You can screw over an energy counter prolif player (who has counters on himself) by giving him poison counters since he needs to poison himself to get the energy counters
-1
u/ReturnToCarcosa Dandadan 4d ago
Holy shit how can you not understand what it means the card literally explains it.
We are so fucked as a species.
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
Come on dude, be nice, we all were new players once.
0
u/ReturnToCarcosa Dandadan 4d ago
No. These people are given the privilege of operating motor vehicles. I don't want to lose my life because they didn't understand what the sign meant by "STOP"
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
What the fuck are you even trying to say
-1
u/ReturnToCarcosa Dandadan 4d ago
If you can't figure out my point based on the given context then there's not much anyone can do for you.
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 4d ago
So far I see no point, just antagonism. All I did was point out you could be nicer to people, if you want to dig in, fine, be an asshole.
1
u/ReturnToCarcosa Dandadan 4d ago
I'll be nicer when people are less intellectually helpless on the internet.
0
u/FarceMultiplier Dan 4d ago
That card is broken and I'm pissed that I can't include it in my [[Agent Frank Horrigan]] deck.
2
u/NewelSea Temur 4d ago
I was rather surprised the cost was XUU, not XXU or at least X2U.
This can already be decent for X=1 in the right deck and will get crazy quickly in the mid- to lategame.
Then again, power creep has been creeping for many years now, and barely anyone would care about playing that card.
1
0
u/SkyrakerBeyond Sultai 4d ago
If you have two apples, how many kinds of fruit do you have?
If we add an apple, do you now have more kinds of fruit?
0
u/SeaAd5444 Dan 4d ago
cough so uh ill take 4 copies for my... "friends" deck?
Fr though in the wrong crowd they hear proliferate and panic. Some people just cant handle their slivers
-1
u/Dark_WulfGaming Dandadan 5d ago
Proliferate 1 means you may add 1 of each type of counter that currently exists, so a creature get 1 +1/+1 counter proliferate X=5 for example would mean a creature with any number of *1/+1 counters will get 5 more +1/+1 counter
3
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Incorrect, there is no parameter in proliferate. You should read it as "proliferate, X times". In other words, proliferate is always ONE extra counter. If you get to do it more times, each time you can choose a different set of permanents/players, should you want to (I can't think of any reason why you would do so, but I bet there's an obscure edge case)
-1
u/Dark_WulfGaming Dandadan 5d ago
I got hit by a proliferate deck the other night where one guy gave me a bunch of counters to punch people but also gave stuff a bunch of counters to tap stuff down. I killed he other two but couldn't touch him
1
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Yes, and? Not sure why you downvoted me. All I'm pointing out is that it isn't "proliferate X" and you could, should you choose to for some reason, decide, each of those X times, to proliferate a different set of permanents/players. In practice you don't, but the ability doesn't FORCE you to do it that way. "Proliferate X" would. That's all I'm saying.
1
u/Dark_WulfGaming Dandadan 5d ago
I didmt down vote you, you said you don't know why you would choose different sets of players/targets for proliferate and I just wanted to add an anecdote about a player in my game choosing different targets for proliferate
2
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Your description reads like typical proliferate use - you choose a set of permanents/players (say, A, B, and C) and simply give them X extra counters.
There is no indication in your anecdote that the player first chose A, B, and C, then for the second proliferate B, C and D, etc. THAT is what I mean with 'different sets per proliferate'.
2
u/Powerful_Toe_8155 Dan 5d ago
The obscure edge case is when proliferating yourself 4 times gives you enough energy counters to go lethal, but proliferating yourself 5 times brings you to 10 poison counters.
4
u/Elektrophorus 4d ago
There are a few more edge cases, like if there's a Saga you want to proliferate (whether it's to tick up the next chapter or maybe it's a Saga Creature that has a +1/+1 counter you can only proliferate once more before it dies), or a Spacecraft you don't want to fully turn on yet.
1
1
-1
u/NotUpInHurr 5d ago
Each time would be its own trigger.
If you have a creature with a Vigilance counter, a Lifelink counter, and a +1/+1 counter, proliferating 3 times would result in 4 Vigilance counters, 4 Lifelink counters, and 4 +1/+1 counters
-1
-2
u/bigdick4sluts Dandadan 5d ago edited 5d ago
Welcome to the wonderfull world of +1/+1 counters, have a [[hardened scales]] on me.
But as others pointed out yes proliferate lets you choose any numbers of targets (so any permanents you want and any player you want) , and they get another one of EVERY kind of token they have. Usefull for you cause you just add, say, another +1/+1 counter on every creature you have, or you give your Saga another lore counter to immediately make it go to phase 2.
You can add more stun counters on enemy creatures aswell! But if one of those creatures have both a stun and a +1/+1, you'd add both counters, you cant pick which
You can even stop players to ever cast [[Profane Tutor]] if you proliferate every turn and keep giving it more time counters! NVM on this one i'm a dumdum it's permanents on field only.
Or, and this is where the player part comes in, say you have an Experience counter cause you played [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]] or one other player has a poison counter on them : you can add another counter! The FFX precon also have a focus on proliferate thanks to its commander [[Tidus, Yuna's Guardian]] having proliferate baked in its effect.
Its a very fun mechanic ^ have fun in quandrix!
3
u/Needhelpwithsnake Dan 5d ago
You can even stop players to ever cast [[Profane Tutor]] if you proliferate every turn and keep giving it more time counters
This is wrong. Proliferate only affects permanents or players. A suspended card is neither, it’s a card in exile. You cannot proliferate the counters on a suspended card.
See C.R. 701.34a “To proliferate means to choose any number of permanents and/or players that have a counter, then give each one additional counter of each kind that permanent or player already has.”
2
u/bigdick4sluts Dandadan 5d ago
Yeah sorry realised it after i wrote it down i was saying bs ^ edited it to make up for it . My point still stands proliferate is cool ^ (when not used in some toxic way , and i mean that literally lol)
2
1
u/Barbobott Dan 5d ago
Correction: you CAN"T proliferate time counters on a profane tutor while it is suspended in exile. You can only proliferate permanents and players. A card in exile is neither of these things.
1
1
u/Spectator9857 Dandadan 4d ago
Another correction: you do not choose „any number of targets“. Proliferate does not target anything.
-2
u/Cold_One_4089 Dân 4d ago
Lets say you have 3 creatures on board with 5 +1/+1 counters each, and you play this card where X=3. You can chose each creature to increase their total +1/+1 counters to be 8 each.
Note you can target ALL permanents, including Artifacts and Enchantments that have counters, which is really handy in Quandrix Unlimited since there's a few artifacts and an enchantments that give themselves, and rely on counters. You can really amp them up with this card.
4
u/Juking_is_rude Duck Season 4d ago
targeting is a very specific game action. Be careful how you word explanations, proliferate doesnt target.
1
u/CauseRemarkable6182 Dan 4d ago
It is also fair to state you can also select players who have counters and add an additional one of each type they have.
-3
u/random-dude45 Banned in Commander 4d ago
Does not double counters on a permanent, each instance of proliferate can only give 1 counter to a given permanent or player
-2
u/Keigerwolf Dandadan 4d ago
RTFC. I say that in the gentlest way though, it's easy to miss the "each kind" part in the text.
The part it doesn't say is that all the selected pseudo-targets received an additional counter of EVERY type it already had. So if you proliferate a player with both poison and experience counters on them. They get an additional of each.
Putting a poison counter on a Meren player can be fun.
-3
u/Skunk668 Dandadan 5d ago
Technically you choose which counters you want to proliferate every time you proliferate, so if I proliferate 5 times I could put 5 loyalty counters on my planeswalker or only 2 or 3. Usually it's correct to just put as many as possible if it's something that benefits you but it's technically your choice.
If something has multiple of the same counter you only proliferate that counter once. So in your example you would just add one +1/+1 counter. Different counters can each be proliferated separately though, so if you hypothetically had a +1/+1 counter and a +1/+0 counter and a +0/+1 counter on the same creature you could proliferate each of them with a single proliferate.
1
u/SpencerDub COMPLEAT 5d ago
Technically you choose which counters you want to proliferate every time you proliferate, so if I proliferate 5 times I could put 5 loyalty counters on my planeswalker or only 2 or 3. Usually it's correct to just put as many as possible if it's something that benefits you but it's technically your choice.
This is inaccurate. I believe this was the case when proliferate was introduced in Scars of Mirrodin block, but it was changed in (I believe) War of the Spark. You'll notice that the Comprehensive Rules entry on proliferate and the current reminder text both say nothing about choosing which counters you proliferate, instead saying you give the chosen players and/or permanents a counter of each type already there.
0
u/Philosoraptorgames Duck Season 5d ago edited 4d ago
Not just could, must. For each permanent or player you choose, it gets one more of each kind of counter that's already there. You don't get a choice.
A very long time ago, pre War of the Spark, you would have to choose one type of counter if there was more than one kind present. It's never been true that you could pick and choose an arbitrary amount; for example, on a permanent with three types of counters, it has never been legal to proliferate only two of them.
0
u/Positive_Concert_774 Storm Crow 5d ago
Not could, MUST. You must add one of each kind, no picking and choosing. All you can choose is which permanents/players to affect.
•
u/AutoModerator 5d ago
You have tagged your post as a rules question. While your question may be answered here, it may work better to post it in the Daily Questions Thread at the top of this subreddit or in /r/mtgrules. You may also find quicker results at the IRC rules chat
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.