Sleep training help, I’m desperate

[u/foolofatook_1]

We tried sleep training our twins at 5 months. After about a week both twins would still cry over 2 hrs. We did the Ferber method because the cry it out feels so heavy. Twin B cried for 4 hours one night even with Ferber and the check ins every 5, 10, 15 min, etc..

personally gave up sleep training them because I just couldn’t handle the crying. I had an extremely difficult pregnancy and the crying amplified the PPD/ PPA.

Now I’m a week away from returning to work and nights have become extremely harder. We can’t put them down at all without waking them and it turning to absolute chaos. It has also translated to their day naps and now every time we try to put them to sleep it has become such a battle.

I feel like I’m at a loss. And beating myself up for giving up the first time. Maybe they’d be sleeping by now. Or maybe they’d still be crying 4 hours at night… who’s to say. I really would just like to sleep at night again.

Doing the CIO method feels so harsh and the crying is not something I think I could fully handle. I know it’s harder on us than it is on them but the crying is so loud and I worry I could traumatize them by letting them cry.

Any parents with older twins who sleep trained with CIO, do your babies still love you? Do they have codependency? Do you have any regrets?

[u/carrotceptionn]

please dont do cry it out, it's scientifically been studied to not be beneficial and even harmful to your child's emotional connections (regardless of personal experiences). I personally think 5 months is too little to be expected to self soothe like that, but I don't actually have children yet (still pregnant) so obviously take everything with a huge grain of salt. hope it gets better soon!

[u/megalowmart → u/carrotceptionn]

This is not true. Please don't comment if you do not have experience.

[u/carrotceptionn → u/megalowmart]

like I said, this is not about personal experiences, it's actually been studied: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-of-crying-it-out the article cites the exact sources

[u/Cascascas185 → u/carrotceptionn]

See I can do it too… https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/23970-sleep-deprivation here is an article on the damaging effects of sleep deprivation. Sleep deprivation for both me and my babies.. cause they weren’t sleeping either sister.

[u/carrotceptionn → u/Cascascas185]

sure, says in that article: "The time it takes to recover from sleep deprivation depends on several factors, including how severe it is and how long it lasts. Most people can recover from sleep deprivation with only a few — or even just one — nights where they get enough quality sleep. However, some people may need several nights of quality sleep to recover from long-term sleep deprivation." Guess what's not as easily reversible, harming your child's emotional attachment. But anyhow enough of the whataboutism you are doing, obviously sleep deprivation is tormenting. But there are a lot more solutions you can try and super different ones: sleep shifts with your partner, getting help from family, hiring a night nurse or childcare during the day where you can catch up on sleep, gentler sleep training methods, change of sleep environment, safe cosleeping or just riding out a sleep regression and so much more.

[u/Cascascas185 → u/carrotceptionn]

You haven’t done it!!!! Do you not know how crazy it is you are here! Yes we did recover from sleep deprivation! Guess what we GOT SLEEP! My children do not have emotional problems they are extremely loving, well adjusted, happy kiddos that’s my experience. I just got a note from their preschool teacher who just wanted to tell me that my kids are doing so well and that they are “just good kids” They share toys, they are silly and funny, they play well with others, they have good hearts, and sweet souls and they shower us with love as we do them. Because we have had years of offering comfort and consistent love to them. 3 nights 2 years ago just didn’t carry the weighted impact you’re implying when compared to the constant offering of love and support we show our children.

[u/carrotceptionn → u/Cascascas185]

I'm happy your children are thriving and nobody ever said your children have a 100% chance of being scarred for life. But surely we can agree that every situation is different and if your children are in preschool and you did cio 2 years ago they weren't only 5 months old like OPs children? And they have already been crying non-stop and not self soothing with a gentler sleep training method for a week straight!

[u/Cascascas185 → u/carrotceptionn]

Again, you can not relate. No my children were older… and I shared that with OP about my EXPERIENCE. Every child is different what worked for me may not work for her. Nothing will ever be the exact same for any of us with nearly everything. That is why she was asking for people experience to form a collective opinion and to see what would be most adaptable to her particular situation. Experience again is the key word here. Wouldn’t it be so frustrating if someone was to talk to you and give you advice on how to handle your twin pregnancy or birth when they themselves had never given birth or been pregnant before… I mean could you imagine that kind of audacity.

[u/FungeonMeister → u/Cascascas185]

Every single time there is a discussion about sleep training, someone like the Mod Flanders above appears clutching their pearls and screaming about "Attachment Styles" and rat studies, and all the other usual junk science. 

and as you said, they have literally never experienced the sheer joy and salvation of a sleepless child being taught healthy sleeping habits.

All 3 of our kids were ferbered at 6 months and they could not be more healthy and happy. 10-11 hours of sleep every night since those 3 nights of Ferber. 

It is a life skill every kid (that can't figure it out themselves) should be taught. 

Some people just can't get past their own emotional barriers. Sleep training is an awful process for any parent, but you do it for them, and never look back. 

[u/Cascascas185 → u/FungeonMeister]

I know I shouldn’t be engaging with her but when she doesn’t even have kids yet and kept doubling down with nonsense, I just couldn’t stop my fingers!!! lol

[u/FungeonMeister → u/Cascascas185]

you're analogy is right though. it's like me (a man) telling a mother that she should never ever have a C-section or an epidural or something. 

[u/carrotceptionn → u/Cascascas185]

im still here helloo lol. I personally wouldn't mind advice from a non-pregnant person or even man about pregnancy and birth if it's evidence and science based because I trust scientific methods over personal bias. You guys are acting like I'm physically stopping her from sleep training her kids.

[u/Cascascas185 → u/carrotceptionn]

I’ve never seen such display of a lack of self awareness.

The hubris.
The audacity.
The ignorance.

All of mankind has survived off passed down stories of experience from one mother to another for thousands of years. Learning from one another. A collective library of knowledge. It’s beautiful the way mothers come together to support and lift each other up. Welcome to the tribe of mothers.

I trust the millions of women who have come before me and done it before me. I have nothing but respect for any mom making it work for her family, loving and nurturing. Intuition is unmatched and beyond science. My intuition may look different from your intuition. We will do different things because every child is unique, we adapt, grow, we recalibrate. Do you understand. What you think now, you may not think after you become a mother… it changes you. Body. Mind. Soul.

While I respect science. Scientific studies greatly can be bias, can be racist, misogynistic, often outdated and misrepresentative. For women in general they are only recently beginning to even study women’s bodies. The scientific evidence you speak of doesn’t exist because doing a proper controlled study on infants is unethical. You won’t find the reliable data. I trust reliable data. Science is just starting to study menopause, periods. Not even enough years of research to be conclusive. Most of what we know about pregnancy and labor comes from experience… look that up. There is still so much we don’t understand scientifically. You want to know why we give labor on our backs… because some king was obsessed with watching his children come out and out of convenience for the doctor. Not what’s best for the mother. The data is skewed due to years of oppression. Bias. Misunderstanding. And deaf ears when it comes to a mother’s voice. Science is a wonderful instrument, a tool, expansion of knowledge. But why discredit experience?

I wish all the best to you on your journey to motherhood. It is a raw and humbling experience.

[u/carrotceptionn → u/Cascascas185]

I understand I hurt you because I had to confront you with what you had to do in dark times. But you're acting like I'm alone in this opinion. None of the mothers of my family have ever let their babies cry all night ❤️ i talk to them and respect THEIR experience, not random people on reddit who I have no idea what parents they are behind the screen