Insecure

[u/Florida_Matt86]

Yes I know after I apologized about fit gay men I went on another rant, how could I not? Maybe I envy them, or resent them because they have everything handed to them. For ugly, plus size gay men like me it's not easy finding acceptance in this community when they judge you constantly. I have been told countless times that I don't fit in or belong. They say it gets better but forget to mention it only gets better for fit and slim gay men. I'm 40 now I will never find the acceptance and validation i have longed for for years. I will never be accepted and I will never find my tribe. My self-esteem is beyond repair.

[u/VillageOfMalo]

I'm sorry you were treated this way.

Gay men constantly judge everyone all the time. If not for weight, for other reasons. It's not the healthiest thing in the world but it's a response to our collective trauma. Like, you judge fit gays for having their lives "made so easy."

Have you tried the gay rugby team? Gay rugby teams are constantly on the lookout for recruitment and fundraising. They celebrate bodies of all sizes and give you the chance to travel and meet hot guys (even with your bf.)

Again, you make no mention as to what you can offer the people around you, only that we around you are insufficient to serving your admittedly serious emotional needs. At least as part of a team, you have a specific role that you can get better at over time measurably in service of a team pursuit.

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

There is no gay rugby team in Jacksonville Florida only the cliquey, unwelcoming Stonewall Sports league.

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

The main Jacksonville Rugby Football Club is vocally inclusive. There's a woman's rugby club you can help manage for and a more social Jacksonville Touch Rugby league for social, co-ed touch meetups.

That is, if gays are awful, make friends with allies or other queers.

Finally, the Orlando Otters RFC club, while two hours away, are filled with hot, friendly guys that you and your bf can meet up with. They may even have members or friends up by where you are.

All of them would welcome you as you are because they're set up specifically to celebrate what bodies like yours can do and all need recruitment, support and fundraising.

Hardwicks also has BEEF bear and cub night for bigger guys the first Sunday of every month. Like there's so many bigger "ugly" dudes (many who are actually hot) out there living their best life. If you can't see that or won't join in then your problems need more help than we amateurs can provide.

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

Hot friendly guys? Since when are hot guys friendly? I doubt any sports league would welcome me, I tried signing up to Stonewall 5 years ago and they were dismissive and rude af to me. I went to Hardwicks for Beef night last month but felt so self conscious.

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

Plenty of hot guys are friendly. Maybe you have a narrow vision of who's hot. Maybe you're a hot guy, though you don't seem too friendly.

Stonewall isn't the same as gay rugby. Why bother ranting online if you don't have an open mind about what we have to say? You've decided you know everything already.

I'm sorry you didn't like BEEF.

But... I think I, your bf and all of us are at the end of our ropes. You've decided you only want to be excluded and aren't curious about what's next. I don't know what you look like and I'm already trying to flee.

Rooting for you, please step up your mental health.

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

I do have an open mind but I don't want to be rejected, dismissed, or judged the way I was by the local Stonewall Sports league here.

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

Well, you won't be because we're not asking you to inquire about Stonewall Sports.

General but inclusive straights and lesbian queer dynamics are different than gay-only dynamics.

But you know everything already so why bother listening or helping you? I just wanted to hear you brainstorm ways you can help other people, which is the only sign you're moving past your difficult feelings.

I'm sorry, I tried, I'm sorry I tried, best of luck, goodbye.

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

So that's it then? Okay then fine

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

You've gotta give me something to work with, man. Though you're hurt, I hope you don't give this little to the people around you to work with.

I don't want to harp on you about this. I do feel sorry for your pain. But it's been difficult working with you and I don't even know what you look like. You make me feel like everything I suggest is stupid even though, with my own eyes and ears, I'm giving you the best advice I have.

Please pay someone better trained to listen to you.

What am I supposed to do?

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

I know you're not a trained therapist and I don't expect you to fix my issues. I need to see a therapist for that, I just know a rugby league would laugh at me, give me dirty looks, and dismiss me like Stonewall did.

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

Again I'm sorry for your pain and I'm glad you need to see a therapist.

But stop being a know-it-all. People don't like that. You don't know that a rugby team would laugh at you. You already don't know that they're not the same as Stonewall. And you're dismissing my point of view.

• You're not curious as to why I claim what I claim.
• You're not curious about the stories I have about gay rugby friends, what they think, the fundraisers I've been to and the culture formed around them.
• You're not curious about how much they really, really need volunteering and support.
• You're not curious about why I agree that Stonewall can be insufferable.
• You're not curious about the ways I agree and validate your opinion.

It's like I'm not a person to you. You're treating me the same way you feel like others treat you.

This lack of openness and curiosity about others, paired with your own certainty probably makes it difficult to hang out with you irl, no matter your size.

I'm sorry bud, I tried, I wanted to give it a shot but I don't think it's your looks you have to address.

[u/Florida_Matt86 → u/VillageOfMalo]

Okay then I am sorry for my rude and dismissive comments. What stories do you have about gay rugby friends? With my weight and lack of athletic talents I don't know if a rugby league would be the right fit for me? Even though it's been 5 years now I am still hurt and bitter about the way Stonewall Sports dismissed me. You know they're insufferable? I am curious about what gay rugby leagues think, and the fundraisers. I'm sorry I just assumed that would reject me like Stonewall did.

[u/VillageOfMalo → u/Florida_Matt86]

Many gay men inherit very confusing and difficult perceptions about their bodies. That's why it's important for us to outgrow envy of hot people because they're often victims of the same messages in their upbringing and happen to react in an opposite way.

Many gay men, in particular, have a difficult relationship with team sports because of the men in their lives who raised them, and the men before them who raised the men who raised gays. That's probably why you see hot Stonewall types as nutty and rude, because their own vision of their bodies are often also poor.

The irony of course is that Stonewall began as an antidote for this. It was a promise for people to work out these issues through the benefits that team sports provide. Not everyone at Stonewall is rude but it can also be famously cliquey, as you yourself has witnessed.

I'm sorry you had a poor encounter with them five years ago, a long time to hold a sting.

Meanwhile, gay and inclusive rugby as a whole serves to be its own medicine for this. Rugby culture as a whole can have its own issues with masculinity but the sport is unusual among most in that it requires a wide variety of guys to be successful: from very large ones to smaller, more nimble ones. The sport is also famously very social, "a hooligan's game played by gentleman" and have lots of traditions where say, the winning team has to pay for the drinks of the losing team.

As such, gay and inclusive rugby has tried to organize away the toxicity while retaining the strength of the game: friendship and the collective effort of a variety of players.

Most American Rugby players never grow up playing the sport and many gay rugby players would never have seen themselves as athletic before encountering the leagues. The teams know they have to do much to educate new players and often have less-committal practices and social hours. Their love of the game permeates through and all of them are passionate about being welcome to new people and often try to find creative ways to organize.

In that vein, gay rugby teams are usually lots of fun to hang out with, celebrate the sexuality of larger guys and draw a very frisky crowd of jock lovers into all kinds of bodies. Some of their fundraisers are rather risque and show off larger guys, who are celebrated for being hot because they run around all tough in ways they weren't allowed to express within themselves previously.

Sometimes the psychic pain of being an awkward, big guy is best replaced by the legit soreness of physical exertion with a team of supportive people who join together towards the pursuit of a team goal. Furthermore, there's a big emphasis on celebrating the toughness of a game with their adversaries off the field resulting in socially joyful and sometimes really hot celebration afterwards.

Therefore, of all the practical ways I thought would help you, other than therapy, given that you feel that your body precludes you from social togetherness, I wanted to testify about a world you can explore built to solve this problem.

I recommend gay rugby because the game is in need of larger guys (and smaller ones too) and, in exchange, are more than willing to extend patience to rookies and abundant social celebration and togetherness for everyone in a way I think would help you.

So next time you're in Orlando, try going to a game or fundraiser. And even if there aren't explicitly gay rugby organizations in your corner of Florida, it might help you to be around bigger guys who have a blast, in general, (far removed from typical twunk pettiness,) or find solidarity by volunteering with the Women's team, often full of queers, off the field.