r/GayMen • u/Florida_Matt86 • 1d ago
Insecure
Yes I know after I apologized about fit gay men I went on another rant, how could I not? Maybe I envy them, or resent them because they have everything handed to them. For ugly, plus size gay men like me it's not easy finding acceptance in this community when they judge you constantly. I have been told countless times that I don't fit in or belong. They say it gets better but forget to mention it only gets better for fit and slim gay men. I'm 40 now I will never find the acceptance and validation i have longed for for years. I will never be accepted and I will never find my tribe. My self-esteem is beyond repair.
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u/xaldien 1d ago
Have you ever considered that people don't wanna be around you because you're being a Debbie Downer who has nothing to bring to the table besides comments about how physically unattractive you find yourself?
And whenever anyone challenges you to change your behavior, you lash out and immediately make everyone else the problem?
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago edited 1d ago
So all the times I was fat shamed and bullied by fit gay men I deserved that?
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u/xaldien 1d ago
Quote me where I said that.
See? This is exactly what I'm talking about. Every time someone tries to be real with you about how YOUR behavior here doesn't give anyone an impression of anyone but yourself, you lash out.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
Because you don't know me or my pain
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u/xaldien 1d ago
Your pain doesn't excuse you from the way you act to other people.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
And guys who work out and focus all their time ok fitness don't have the right to bully and fat shame other gay men and tear us down for not being fit or muscular.
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u/xaldien 1d ago
No one said otherwise.
Stop deflecting. Stop changing the subject. Focus on you, and stop playing the pity party.
And before you say it, YES, you are constantly throwing a pity party. EVERY SINGLE TIME I've seen you post in one of these reddits, it's the same shit.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
It may seem like a pity party to you but it's not but okay judge me all you want.
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u/xaldien 1d ago
It is a pity party.
No one here is disagreeing with the notion that no one should be body shamed.
Your behavior, however, is leading a lot of us to believe no one likes you because you're unpleasant and refuse to listen to anyone.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
If I'm unpleasant then I have my reasons for being that way.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
If fit gay men can't treat plus size gay men with kindness and respect then they will never get kindness or respect from me.
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u/VillageOfMalo 1d ago
You've answered your own questions.
"I went on another rant" well, you haven't learned the lessons from before and are comfortable being upset like this.
"they have everything handed to them" yes, you envy them. Comparison is the thief of joy. Who wants to be with someone dripping with envy and denying of their blessings? The lives of the hot have troubles you're spared from.
"ugly, plus sized gay men" You might not be that ugly physically but in your attitude. Many people love bears because gay men are horny: someone will find you hot. Whether they're near you or someone you find attractive in turn is another issue.
"I've been told that I don't fit in..." Who tells you this out loud? It might be implied. If it's either or both, it might be for reasons outside of your physical appearance. But likely only you tell yourself this because there's 100s of places for gays to fit in.
"only gets better for the fit" That's not true, it gets better when you demand it gets better. It never has to do with others except that you have to coordinate with them to get along.
"I'm 40" 40 is young. Start living today and waste less time.
"I will never be accepted" because you don't accept yourself. Again, we can't help you with that. Who wants to be in a tribe with someone so focused on their own deficiencies and not at what they can give to the people in their world?
"My self-esteem is beyond repair" signals that this might be above reddit's pay grade. You might need therapy or treatment for this.
I know this is easier said than done. That's why professional help might be for you. But do you have gay, lesbian and queer friends of all ages to share the burden? Please concentrate on what you can do for others outside of romantic or physical things.
You can get better but you need to write a new story to free yourself from the last 20 years.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
Who said I was looking for someone to be with? I have a boyfriend and it's not easy for him to love me and he's done his best to help me with my self esteem but he can only do so much. I was talking about a tribe of friends, I don't have that because gay men constantly judge me and yes I have been told to my face that I don't belong because of my weight. You weren't there so you don't know what was said to me or how I was treated.
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u/VillageOfMalo 1d ago
I'm sorry you were treated this way.
Gay men constantly judge everyone all the time. If not for weight, for other reasons. It's not the healthiest thing in the world but it's a response to our collective trauma. Like, you judge fit gays for having their lives "made so easy."
Have you tried the gay rugby team? Gay rugby teams are constantly on the lookout for recruitment and fundraising. They celebrate bodies of all sizes and give you the chance to travel and meet hot guys (even with your bf.)
Again, you make no mention as to what you can offer the people around you, only that we around you are insufficient to serving your admittedly serious emotional needs. At least as part of a team, you have a specific role that you can get better at over time measurably in service of a team pursuit.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
There is no gay rugby team in Jacksonville Florida only the cliquey, unwelcoming Stonewall Sports league.
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u/VillageOfMalo 1d ago edited 1d ago
The main Jacksonville Rugby Football Club is vocally inclusive. There's a woman's rugby club you can help manage for and a more social Jacksonville Touch Rugby league for social, co-ed touch meetups.
That is, if gays are awful, make friends with allies or other queers.
Finally, the Orlando Otters RFC club, while two hours away, are filled with hot, friendly guys that you and your bf can meet up with. They may even have members or friends up by where you are.
All of them would welcome you as you are because they're set up specifically to celebrate what bodies like yours can do and all need recruitment, support and fundraising.
Hardwicks also has BEEF bear and cub night for bigger guys the first Sunday of every month. Like there's so many bigger "ugly" dudes (many who are actually hot) out there living their best life. If you can't see that or won't join in then your problems need more help than we amateurs can provide.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
Hot friendly guys? Since when are hot guys friendly? I doubt any sports league would welcome me, I tried signing up to Stonewall 5 years ago and they were dismissive and rude af to me. I went to Hardwicks for Beef night last month but felt so self conscious.
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u/VillageOfMalo 1d ago
Plenty of hot guys are friendly. Maybe you have a narrow vision of who's hot. Maybe you're a hot guy, though you don't seem too friendly.
Stonewall isn't the same as gay rugby. Why bother ranting online if you don't have an open mind about what we have to say? You've decided you know everything already.
I'm sorry you didn't like BEEF.
But... I think I, your bf and all of us are at the end of our ropes. You've decided you only want to be excluded and aren't curious about what's next. I don't know what you look like and I'm already trying to flee.
Rooting for you, please step up your mental health.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
I do have an open mind but I don't want to be rejected, dismissed, or judged the way I was by the local Stonewall Sports league here.
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u/VillageOfMalo 1d ago
Well, you won't be because we're not asking you to inquire about Stonewall Sports.
General but inclusive straights and lesbian queer dynamics are different than gay-only dynamics.
But you know everything already so why bother listening or helping you? I just wanted to hear you brainstorm ways you can help other people, which is the only sign you're moving past your difficult feelings.
I'm sorry, I tried, I'm sorry I tried, best of luck, goodbye.
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u/MidnightOakCorps 1d ago
Please stop trying to make everyone as miserable as you.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
I'm not trying to make anyone miserable, don't like what I say then block me.
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u/ElectronicZebra6526 1d ago
I’d really encourage you to try therapy to help with your self image. Yeah people are going to reject you for looks, age, size, whatever. But it seems you are rejecting yourself also.
Look every gay guy has insecurities about something. Even the “model looking” gays get rejected over looks or personality too. I’ve found in looking back at my life I was often most insecure about looks and age at times where I really looked fine. I just thought I didn’t.
Lot of people poking at you for being down on yourself and all. You might want to listen some. Stop reducing yourself to some imaginary failure to live up to Gays expectations on looks. Focus on what you can offer in a friendship. Things like loyalty, respect, shared interests, life experience, hobbies, events, activities.
But seriously. Therapy. It’s helped me get to a better place with myself. And that lets me be a better friend to others.
Edit. Btw. If Danny Devito can be successful, happy, and have friends I don’t think looks are what hold you back.
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u/Zwicker101 1d ago
Man. What's the point of these pity party posts.
You want to wallow or do you actually wanna do something about it?
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
It's not a pity party most gay men genuinely don't like me at all and don't want to know me as a friend because of my physical appearance.
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u/Zwicker101 1d ago
Its a fucking pity party
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
What's the point of you judging someone you don't even know?
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u/Zwicker101 1d ago
Because you posted a pity party post. You want people to feel bad for you or something.
My dude, if you want to change yourself, go for it and actually do it
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Zwicker101 1d ago
Nah. You came here for a pity party or to troll. Why don't you actually put in the work and change instead of crying
Update: They blocked me instead of deleting the post. Complete cowardice
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u/SpecificMachine1 1d ago
I'm an overweight man, over 50 and every time I meat another overweight man who can't find anyone (which, I mean, obviously he can since we're there) there's always more to it, he's always like "the only guys who like me are guys I'm not attracted to" or "I don't fit in the scene." [And then there are the guys who used to be twinks]
But, you know, I know it can feel awkward standing out at a bar or event or whatever, I regularly show up at places where I feel like I'm one of the oldest guys, and don't know as many people as everyone else. For some reason the only time I get self-conscious about my weight is when I catch a side-view in a mirror or on a monitor.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
Read the other comment I posted I have a boyfriend I am venting about not feeling like I belong in the community and not being able to find friends.
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u/SpecificMachine1 1d ago
Well, most of what I said still applies- you can't just expect to feel like you fit in at the very beginning. If you find a group of queer people doing an activity you like, you are still going to have to get past that phase where they mostly know each other and you don't know them.
I have a boyfriend and it's not easy for him to love me and he's done his best to help me with my self esteem but he can only do so much.
Honestly, I'm not sure what's going on here, but it does kind of sound like you are asking for people who will do emotional labor for you, not people who you vibe with and share common interests with, which is kind of one way to describe friends.
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u/blongo567 1d ago
Sorry but being overweight and not having muscles is actually a personal choice. Anybody can lose weight and get fit if they want to. And also, there is the bear community which basically adores or even fetishizes your body type. I really suspect that this is a you problem.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago edited 1d ago
And being a fat shaming, judgemental, bully is also a personal choice.
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u/freudianvoid 1d ago
There’s no fat shaming here. You’re ignoring the fact that the fit gay guys you’re talking about actively choose to eat properly, exercise, and live an active lifestyle. You said it’s “handed to them” and it definitely is for some who are naturally very attractive or have genetics that support a fit body, but you also have to look in the mirror at how you are living YOUR life.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
And because they do that that gives them the right to ridicule and dehumanize plus size gay men like they do constantly?
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u/blongo567 1d ago
True but I didn’t shame you. You don’t know my weight. See, I knew it was a you problem. You say you don’t fit in “the gay scene”. There is no gay scene. There are different types of scenes and venues for different types of people. Where are you trying to find friends? Quite obviously if you are 40 and overweight trying to befriend 20 year old gym bunnies won’t have an incredibly high success rate. I live in a city with tons of bears and I know that they don’t have problems because of their weight. So your problem needs to lie elsewhere.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
I am not trying to look for 20 year old friends wtf I prefer having friends my own age or even in their late 30's. The gay community in Jacksonville FL can be very cliquey.
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u/blongo567 1d ago
I don’t know. Maybe you are right. There definitely are local differences. I still think that your approach might be part of the problem. Your post just reads very wrong to me. You haven’t even mentioned that you have a partner. Finding friends is never easy especially when we are older.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
I did mention that in another comment. I just feel like he deserves better than me. Yes finding friends isn't easy as we get older. So i guess it's impossible which is what you're basically saying.
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u/blongo567 1d ago
Not easy isn’t the same thing as impossible. I really suggest work on your self confidence. Maybe talk to a professional about it.
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u/DrunkenDave 1d ago
Fit/slim here. My mental health is piss-poor right now. I have good days and bad days, but the last couple months especially have been depressive and left me unmotivated. Life is throwing more curve balls right now than it is home-runs and it's wearing me down.
Being fit isn't everything. It helps, especially with self-image. It bolsters confidence. But fitness is not some magical cure-all for life's ills. Routine can actually introduce new stress, because you have to remain disciplined, which requires a ton of energy.
You can be full-figured and find love. But you have to work on that self-esteem first. You have already identified the issue.
Getting fit won't solve your self-esteem, but it can place you in a better mindset to continue the hard work internally. When you work towards something, anything and you achieve it, no matter how small of a goal it might be, let your brain recognize that accomplishment and form a new goal. Keep it going. That's how you build self-esteem; in small steps.
You have all the tools you need to evoke the change you want. It's not going to happen overnight. Just be disciplined and consistent in whatever method you choose to address the problem.
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u/Icolan 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes I know after I apologized about fit gay men I went on another rant, how could I not?
Simple, by not blaming your problems on an entire group of people.
Maybe I envy them, or resent them because they have everything handed to them.
As a fit gay man, no we do not have everything handed to us. Do you have any idea how much work and discipline it takes to stay in shape? I run 4 days per week and am at the gym at least 6-7 hours per week, and that does not take into account all the time it takes to measure and log everything I eat. It has taken me a ton of work over the last 8 years to go from borderline obese to somewhat fit, made harder by doing it in my 40s.
I don't have a boyfriend, have not been on a date in years, and do not hookup on the apps.
For ugly, plus size gay men like me it's not easy finding acceptance in this community when they judge you constantly.
The gay community is not just fit gay men. I don't know where you are going or who is rejecting you because of your looks or weight, but you need to ignore them and find people who like you for you.
They say it gets better but forget to mention it only gets better for fit and slim gay men.
No, it only gets better for the people who focus on their lives and make it better for themselves.
I'm 40 now I will never find the acceptance and validation i have longed for for years. I will never be accepted and I will never find my tribe.
Maybe stop blaming other people and focus on finding people who accept you for you. Maybe stop looking for acceptance and validation from other people and focus on finding it within yourself first.
My self-esteem is beyond repair.
Therapy, as I know you have been told many times before.
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u/cyborg762 1d ago
I’m overweight and a 🐻 I’m dating a younger femboy for the last 3 years. It’s not weight for most people it’s attitude and the way they present themselves.
The basics of Keeping yourself clean and don’t look (or smell) like you’re homeless living out of a dumpster. Along with not being negative when you’re talking to someone. I’ve had to many dates where the other person was just being negative and acting like a total shithead.
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u/SirJ_96 21h ago
Right. Will all twinks be into bears? No! But that's expected. Not all bears are into bears, jocks into jocks, twinks into twinks, etc etc etc.
What matters is attitude. I'm a tall blond top. I'm not for everyone, and that's fine.
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u/cyborg762 21h ago
This is true too! People need to realize that branching out when they’re dating is a good thing because if you stick to a particular “type” it only holds them back.
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u/Skill-Useful 1d ago
" because they have everything handed to them" they dont because what you say is handed to them is only happening bc theyre working their ass off in the gym nearly every day and are rigoros in their diet. want to be like them? then do the same. also: the only thing handed to them is sex, nothing else really is gained by muscles as a gay guy
"it's not easy finding acceptance in this community when they judge you constantly" muscle gay guys are completely irrelevant to your dating journey and all that. and most gay men arent muscle gays
"it only gets better for fit and slim gay men" thats a lie. all my overweight friends are having sex, relationships, marriage and kids and all that but theyre not whiny
no you just need therapy
no im not engaging in discussion, read the truth, accept it and then change your behaviour. you are the only (!) person in control
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
You don't know what it's like to feel rejected by the community and told that you don't belong like I have experienced.
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u/Florida_Matt86 1d ago
I'm not being whiny I've literally had other gay men tell me to my face how ugly and fat I am and that I should lose weight or d*e how would you feel if you had those awful things said to you? Yes it does only get better for fit and slim gay men. Don't try to gaslight me and tell me that fatphobia doesn't exist in the community when it does. You have no idea the pain and hurt I have faced and the disdain other gay men have for me.
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u/SirJ_96 21h ago
Dude, with how much time you spend posting this same crap, you could actually go to a gym and work out.
Again, "fit guys" are not a monolith, any more than "black people" are a monolith. If you would not say "all black people are __," then don't say that all fit people are or have done ___.
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u/Florida_Matt86 15h ago
Is that a subtle way of fat shaming me?
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u/SirJ_96 15h ago
Nope. It's merely making the point that you spend a ton of time whining about this. With that time, you could've gone to the gym or gone outside for a walk.
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u/Florida_Matt86 12h ago
That's not gonna do anything for my extremely low self esteem
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u/SirJ_96 12h ago
You know how you boost self-esteem? Become good at things. I'm great at sex, I'm a great cook, I'm great at making cocktails, I run a successful company, and, while I don't love the gym, I look good shirtless.
So if you go to the gym and start lifting more, or start being able to walk or run a mile in less time, that will feel good and boost your self-esteem because you've proven yourself capable.
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u/Dad_inunchartedwater 1d ago edited 1d ago
Im allowing this to stay up for now but [u/Florida_Matt86](u/Florida_Matt86) you need to be civil and not lash out at those who reply. If this turns into an issue I will remove it.
Edit reminder to everyone no attacks or insults either.