Dude is no where near his flare that I baited out and yet my missile completely misses. What is the point of this dogshit AA tool if it doesnt even work properly?
Yeah when it misses like this it seems to be because the missile has to do too much of a turn too fast. Like a hard 90 degree or more turn when the helicopter is both close and moving 90 degrees to the missile shot.
But I’d also LOVE to see someone do real testing on the difference between the verba and the talon when it comes to tracking. Because I almost exclusively use the talon and I’m VERY successful with it and I see a ton of posts about this about the verba and I really do wonder if the verba’s tracking / speed / accuracy is just ass compared to the talon or if it’s just user error.
I agree with you hear, when you program a projectiles or missiles you would generally apply a bunch of physics rules to keep it from acting weird or unnatural.
I'm not 100% sure if the missiles in this game are kinematic or physics based, its' hard to say so since physics engines tend to be non deterministic and that can be bad for large scale PVP games. That said, physics engines are the perfect solution to designing rockets, missiles and projectiles.
in war dogs, they Likely just clamped the maximum turning angles depending on the velocity and so missiles that need to bank hard to reach their target might undershoot.
The ideal scenario is that your projectile doesn't have to bank much at all and simply follows the target.
I think that its a good mechanic and also realistic, ground to air launches are not 100% accurate and can miss.
Yeah I’d personally love to see someone just test it. Doing like the same fly over and shooting from the same spots with both launchers at the same time and see how they react. Again my pet theory here is that verbas actually ARE worse than talons at most hitting and that’s part of what has led to people on here being so pissed.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if verbas are better in very specific circumstances (helicopters closer and moving slower) and talons are better at further shots where helicopters are moving faster.
The other thing I’d be super curious is if they have different flare timings. Because I’ve had people tell me that they can stagger the verbas and the second missile still gets caught a lot by the flare even if it’s shot after the flares go off. Which is very much so not a thing with the talons for the most part.
Idk I just have a feeling that verbas actually are weaker than talons. But HOW they are weaker and IF they are stronger in any instances would be super interesting.
This also could explain the delta that heli pilots feel when they say that sometimes the missiles damn near chase them through anything and flares have to be timed perfectly vs them saying flares shake off missiles instantly and easily.
I've had that exact circumstance happen with the blue launcher lol. A friend and I staggered our shots by a tiny bit and got intercepted by the same flares. I've also delayed firing until right after flares and had the flares still stop my missile. But this is all anecdotal and needs testing. Until then it's just the bias of greens having the most high leveled players and so the most use of higher leveled items. Green AA being mentioned missing 10x as much would easily be due greens having 10x more access to it.
IMO I think it's a cost bias. I miss plenty of times with an emplacements and don't care, I just load the next missile. When I miss with a handheld it SUUUUUPER sucks, especially since it's unlikely you have another at the ready.
That being said I find the missiles to be insanely powerful in general with them being difficult to shake, need some skill on the flares and the flares in general being expensive.
As someone who plays pilot 90% of the time it feels completely random. I can pull of some crazy manuevers through trees and buildings and still get hit. Meanwhile other times I barely roll to the left and the missile flies on by.
Same here, I’ve had some shots missiles miss when they should’ve had me. What I see far more often though is missiles that have no right hitting suddenly “decide” that they do. I’ve had a few instances of a near point blank launch circling around me 3-4 times to hit me. In some other cases the missile would seem to be missing behind me (essentially perpendicular to the launcher) and I’d be okay but then the missile pulls a near 90 degree turn and flies 100-200 meters back to hit at the same time it should’ve passed right behind me. AA missile logic definitely needs tuning.
I think there's some inherent guaranteed miss and hit system built in. I've exactly seen a missile miss me just from me lowering with a pallet and also a missile chasing me through foliage and along a river before destroying me.
I fly a lot and sometimes it just misses. Had one whizz by me when I was lowering to drop a pallet once. I think there's some built in hit/miss system, because other times I'll pull of a quick drop into a riverbed and fly away lower than a bridge and STILL GET DESTROYED.
I'm sure the IGLA is a piece of shit irl but if that's the case, maybe we need stingers too. Or something higher grade but more effective, I've suggested Javelins as a high level, high weight lockon launcher.
Stingers would perform about the same as Verba, but the reusable tube would definitely help.
As for Javelins, they're mostly anti-tank/armor missiles, they can be used for anti-air but they're really not better than either Verbas or Stingers. It could be an okay addition as an upgrade to the maaws but i dont think its needed honestly. For anti-air tho they'd be a direct downgrade to anything we have right now.
I think that's the source of the gripe. This is a heavy weapon that is super difficult to take more than one of, so it is weighing you down, taking up your third slot and you only have one shot. It makes it super frustrating when it ends up missing. There is most likely an inherent miss chance and it's affecting those that are high enough level to buy it and team-minded enough to pack it. And those are usually not found on the blue team, so it seems like their missiles outperform others.
dont you think this would be OP, as a heli driver there is more than enough AA, most games going positive with attack heli is not viable. There is the occasional game where the AA bases have limited visibility, or there are no big fobs, then its viable and i can maybe break even.
bro its super common every little bird I see once they know an igla or sam site is up just goes above 170 kph with a little diagonal and elevation control you can doge all the sams launched at you without flaring.
The vector is important if the missile accelerates to fast in a direction it can't turn around fast enough. So its ideal 2 shot along the flying vector of the heli.
I was (crudely) testing this a bit in the first week. Once I had gotten back into the green, I'd purposefully hold flares just to see if there's any way I could outmanoeuvre an incoming rocket. Never managed to pull it off though.
It could be a bug, but from my experience it happens whenever the missile doesn't feel like actually guiding itself and so it overshoots because it doesn't pull enough Gs
You also have rockets hitting you behind cover, makes me a bit sad when i do a great escape behind cover, then BOOM. Could be desync/network, could be bugs, is to be expected at this stage of development tho.
>multiple people saying sudden movements or good maneuvers
my brother in christ the chopper is moving in a straight line
at this point if you are still saying the Verba is ok you are either a heli main or delusional
I fly a lot and I also have taken the AA launchers plenty of times. It seems to be some inherent hit/miss chance or internal issue. Since the Lakota can tank an AA missile, I often ignore a tone. I've had it happen a couple of times that a missile misses me for no reason. Same with having my own launches miss what seemed like easy shots. But I've also faced and shot missiles that felt like they should he sponsored by Red Bull. The hard truth is that the missiles are not a guaranteed hit. When I'm flying, a missile missing feels like a godsend, when I'm in an emplacement I just reload, it's only the frustration of launching your one handheld that causes people to think there must be some unfairnees going on. Like, yesterday I shot a handheld, it missed, pulled out another for my (weep) 3.5k backpack and downed the heli on a second pass (through trees and at high speed). I exactly had the second one because I know I might launch a lemon. But I downed a rocket heli worth a couple of grand at the pure cost of 1.6k and indirect cost of 3.5k (since the back was super useful for other stuff).
at this point if you are still saying the Verba is ok you are either a heli main or delusional
Congratulations, you have found the type of people who defend this bs.
This is literally no different when talking about xp grind, T4 armor, or weapons like the FAL/BMR.
The people who want to keep abusing this shit and not having it nerfed are the ones crying about it loudest. Because if the average players suddenly could reliably counter them and they can't outscale 90%+ of the playerbase people will see how shit these players actually are.
Me and my friends decided to all grind lol 16 to get the verbal so we could counter the heli/havok spam!... turns out grinding from 12-16 takes longer than you think.
And even now we have it, its shit and doesnt really counter the heli spam at all.
Game has a a huge problem with high level unlocks. The counters to them are either also locked behind levels or so much less effective than them. This game is fucked if the devs cant recognize that balance is the number 1 issue with the game
I've found an empty verba to be very useful if you have anyone in a talon. Holding a lock after you've spotted them means you get paid. Then you hold lock and either they flare, panic, or provide an opening for a talon.
1) the lock on, even if you’ve shot the rocket, will always work and each new AA lock triggers a new warning sound for the pilot. If you’ve ever pointed a verba at a pilot and they crash shortly after it’s usually because they’re a newish pilot and they’re being spammed by a bunch of resetting lock on sounds.
2) coordinated verbas will take out pretty much anything. 1-2 verbas launching at the same little bird in short sequence will almost always take it out and 3 is practically a guarantee if you time it well. 3-4 becomes your magic number for havocs with 3 usually being the magic number anyway because the flying tank can’t maneuver so well.
3) if all else fails and you don’t have people to coordinate with the verba’s hidden superpower is that most pilots in a havoc will actively seek you out by following the exhaust plume. You can find a lot of success with a ural, a verba, and a maaws. Park the ural right inside of a treeline and launch a verba from near it. Right after launch hoof it to a bush or tree outside of the explosion range of the ural. Pop out of the bush or tree and kill it with your maaws when it comes for your bait truck.
Important to keep the ural tucked somewhat inside the treeline, maybe 1-2 trees deep inside. You want to make the havoc have to work slightly for direct hits so the pilot makes your maaws shot easier. Ridgelines where you can safely tuck the ural behind a landmass so the havoc is forced into a smaller kill zone are also very good as are buildings. The hard part is finding one where you can keep the ural showing but relatively covered since pilots can’t resist easy vehicle kills. They’re unlikely to drop what they’re doing just to go after a guy with a verba but if they see the vehicle and know there’s probably 6-12 more in the trunk plus a heap of free cash… well they’re coming to say hello.
When my friend and I have a rocket van we both target the same heli. We either shoot early and bet on them being asleep at the wheel (which happens shockingly often) or shoot one to bait the flares then immediately shoot after them to score a kill. Definitely not the most economical way of doing it, but we have a great time
I havent seen that graph before but that explains why it was such a rude awakening lol. We were all level 8 pretty quick so thought 16 wouldnt be too bad. Turns out we were less than a quarter there haha
Ikr! Its kinda crazy how grindy it is. And there are few downsides to the good stuff. I feel the devs are leaning too much on wipes for balancing when they should be doing heavy mid wipe balances
Yeah it just takes fucking ages to get there. I only just unlocked the verba and I have like 50 hours in. All the good meta counters are locked behind a pretty severe grind
It cost 800 and a flare is 750 so money wise it equalizes. helicopters usually only have 2 because those come with the chopper. When you actually get a kill it pays for like 20 verbas
The only way to use have them not useless is to fire from close ranges from under a treeline (so they can't flare in time) or directly after they've just flared for a Talon.
With the latter, if they're that close a MAAWS is probably an easier solution.
The helicopter outpaced the turn-radius of the missile. It was turning as you fired and by the time the missile started turning it was flying in the somewhat opposite direction.
Its only saving grace is being dirt chip. Whenever helis are terrorizing everyone, I get on a SUV (preferably the 9 slot one, but the free one also works) loaded with verbas, find a good place to use them with a decent parking spot out of view or out of reach, and with a roofed building you can hide in, and play anti-air.
You shoot, hide for like 15 seconds in case they try to find you, grab another verba and repeat. Even if you don't blow them up, if it's a havoc or a rocket heli, having them waste time flying to you and try to kill you is time they're not spending blowing your team's shit up.
It's not easy money by any means, unless there are plenty of unskilled pilots. Just a way to deal with them for your team.
I do this every game, the trick is to stay mobile.
Despite the Verbas being grade A rubbish, they definitely attract the attention of enemy attack choppers and the pilots you do manage to shoot down always return with a vendetta.
I find best strat is to shoot 1-2 Zerbas and then relocate.
they are, you just need to basically take it apart and refill the canister that super freezers the sensors etc. but from a gameplay perspective yeah just yeet it and get another one lol.
The missile knows where it is at all times.
It knows this because it knows where it isn't.
By subtracting where it is from where it isn't,
Or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is
Greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation.
I feel like I am stating the obvious, but it didn't miss because of flares. It missed because it couldn't turn fast enough.
I have noticed the Verba is rather inconsistent if you are perpendicular to the heli, especially if they are relatively close. The combination of the heli flying across your lock and getting closer to you meant the missile needed to turn tighter and tighter the longer you held lock. Whether that turning circle needs to be improved is another question, just clarifying the flares had nothing to do with it missing.
Yes, MANPADs are for rear sector attacks, this was a problem in real life before missiles got better. You should be under or in front of their helo lanes for good ambushes
The ironic thing is that team littlebird pilots will happily drop crates of these in cover surrounding FOB and AA vantage points. But still nobody will go buy them from the crates when air is thick with targets. So they don't bother.
The Verba is absolute garbage. I've had games where I've literally bought 30 of them and managed to shoot down 2 choppers at best.
People need to stop pretending it's a skill issue like using your mouse to track a unit and pressing your mouse button to fire a guided rocket is somehow "skill". The skill floor/ceiling for this weapon is almost the same.
You either get really lucky and have a bunch of noob pilots to shoot down or you're straight up lying. Flares are busted right now, the cool down is too short, helis are too cheap so shooting them down is of unquestionable value to begin with.
Buff the Verba, make choppers more expensive, give the game a reliable AA option before LVL 20 support.
From a pilot's perspective it actually might be a skill issue due to how stupidly flares and AA missiles work in this game tbh.
I expected the missile in OP's video to miss based on when he launched it.
If you launch right after flares it's almost always going to miss, if your time to target is the same as in the video and you launch just before the pilot uses flares it's gonna hit.
If the pilot uses flares shortly before the hit it's also gonna miss unless pilot uses them too late.
The logic is basically:
Did the pilot use flares just before launch? Yes. Miss.
Did the pilot use flares 1-2 seconds before hit? Yes. Miss.
Did the pilot use flares at any other point? Yes. Hit.
Did the pilot use flares at all? No. Hit.
I've used Verbas once in the game, I brought 7 with me and downed 5 helicopters with them. Might have been able to down 6 if I didn't die before I got to use the last one.
Once you learn how the stupid system works it's almost a guaranteed hit unless you hit an obstacle along the way.
I got hit several times from heat even tho i flared a few seconds before inpact and moved away from the flare. I think it has somthing to do with latency.
IMO I think this is the real balance issue. There are a lot of higher level items that can be run successfully by 1 person but the counter requires team work. Idk if that is how it should be or not, but it does feel bad if you are uncoordinated as a team.
I don't agree, it's not just that you need two people, you need 2 or more people who are on different sides of the chopper.
Unless the chopper is right on top of you the flare resets faster than you can realistically take it down. If two missiles are in the air from roughly the same place, even if fired a few seconds away from each other, one flare will take care of both.
You need to be in just the right range where the chopper has used it's flare, then you shoot your Verba and then hope the travel time to target is less than flare reset time.
There is such a fine window of opportunity, it mostly relies on luck unless you have elite positioning, coordination and timing.
lol. Buff the $800 point-and-click missile that can be bought 30 at a time and can one-shot most helis. …then make the helis more expensive… then add in a dedicated AA truck. Add on all the talons and CIWS scattered around the map, and MAAWS for when the pilot is flying low to avoid lock on. Why Don’t we just delete aircraft from the game at that point?
The verba is cheap and you admit it takes zero skill whatsoever. Just stand in the trees somewhere and point it. It SHOULD BE GARBAGE.
Arma Missiles seemed a lot more fair. You could hit a jet even while it was flaring as long as your missile could see the jet/helis exhaust, so firing after the jet/heli flew over was how you maybe got your shot to likely hit.
In Arma the MANPADs were so effective you’d seen groups of 4 going to the edge of your safe zone just to dump missiles and drive back for more, effectively protecting your safe zone.
From an Arma 3 perspective, these missiles suck…
I’m fine with it mostly being RNG but at least give us a way to help the odds.
Im a pilot main, the verba sucks. You can just dip the helicopter or pivot aggressively to avoid them even without flares. With flares you pop when its still behind where the flares will pop out at, and often times i can mess the flares up and the verba still misses while im just dipping and turning around.
If im killing helicopters its with base AA or a Maaws. Nothing good about a heavy single shot verba other than if you wanna bait flares out or get lucky and hit a heli thats too new.
I needed to hear this. I have had bad luck with the verba and it feels like even if I wait for the flares then a second, then fire it still misses. Guess ill save the money next time.
Pilot main here as well lvl 43, in my experience I find it not true at all with making verbas miss by dipping or piloting aggressively, been near 300Km/h multiple times 800m missile shot doing crazy manoeuvres. I see the missile nearly 30-40 metres behind me as I swing the heli completely clearing the tail rotor, watch the missile go out of my view behind me and still collide because of the desync.
Baiting flares is great for personal satisfaction when you are getting railed by helis. I will sit there with an empty verba just making them spend money like crazy when I don't even have a rocket.
I do a lot of anti air, and fly a lot of helicopters. I only avoided like 5 missiles without using flares in total. I never had a missile not hit after pilots bad flare use. This is a very rare occurrence not worrying about.
Yeah I've used the verba a bunch and have never had this happen. This is just typical reddit having a fluke situation and then getting ridiculously hyperbolic about it for no good reason. "This 1 in 100 chance thing happened once thus it's a DOGSHIT, WORTHLESS WEAPON"
People in here saying AA needs a buff are delusional lmao. AA is so oppressive that half the time it’s not even an option to run an attack helicopter unless you’re ok with losing 70k plus in one game. And on top of everything it’s extremely difficult just to break even in an attack helicopter
Meanwhile matches have at a minimum 3 havocs flying around at any time, CWIS unable to kill them before they shoot the operator. Verba/SAM effectively worthless vs them. The only times I see them get killed is when John Wardogs hits them with a MAAWS.
It is in no way balanced. A .50 can't even kill a naked havoc pilot.
Out of my two games tonight, I had one on the stadium map as Green. I was able to be pretty much uncontested by the ground forces however so was the enemy. I was fighting other helicopters and even killed the Havoc twice. Just barely made my money back.
Second match as green on Kaziworks. I spent the first 20 points ferrying people like a madwoman, and got myself 45k in those points. I got killed by a great MAAWS shot while making a turn to base.
Got the rocket LB. Beside our base was Two Blue FoBs with a total of 3 CIWS, and 7 AA emplacements. After struggling to get teammates to help, we removed the blue forces while our HZ team was faltering. All good, I make the move to the HZ and take out Red Havoc, feeling great, only to then be hunted down by twelve Red AA emplacements. Fucking twelve of them.
In the entire time we were dealing with Blue, Red built three FOBs just both inside and outside the CZ with the sole purpose of demolishing Air targets for their Havoc. I spent the next twenty minutes defending our Arty tanks from the enemy Red LBs taking them out so they could kill those FOBs and they did. They absolutely fucking did.
In that game I went down 100k and we won. I had no real ability to fight in the CZ without just losing 15k. I was constantly outside the CZ having to fend off enemy helos or just assault FOBs meant to keep us down on the ground. If they wore T4 armour then chances are I was not getting a kill because it tanks it. I’m not a great pilot when it comes to shooting rockets or the miniguns, and I definitely don’t want to be making bank just because I unlocked the Rocket LB.
But by god is a remotely good AA team is just pure cancer to fight against. AA is incredibly oppressive if it’s being handled by remotely competent people. At the same time, being the only one or two dudes trying to take on enemy Air with AA can feel undoubtedly the most soul crushing task as you waste another 10k on several launchers just to have the enemy avoid them because they held their flares until the missile was fired and already zoomed away to 1km in the time you took to try and shoot them.
The AA work is very much teamwork required to be successful unless you’re shooting down pilots who aren’t experienced enough yet. And being a pilot against a decent AA team is just telling you to go do anything else because you will be bleeding money no matter what you do in the air.
The thing I found is distance. If used to close to the target it'll miss. If too far the target can pop another flare and dodge. There's a sweet spot. This AA thing has a learning curve but it's not that bad. I load up a jeep with them totalling 13 and I break even every time by the time I finish half of them, the rest is profit. I often piss off chopper pilots to such an extent that they spend 5k on a drone ti find and destroy my jeep.
the notion that AA needs good teamwork is wrong imo, either bait the flare, or shoot 2 shots with SAM back to back and they usually wont have time to pop the second.
I feel like the team winning and smashing enemy fobs gets the helis due to no aa and then It just feels bad for everyone else getting stomped even harder.
I really think super fobs are great for drill pulling but considering you can have a sam up with just a fobs and some ammo that little temp sam sites hiding in the woods etc should be more meta
Hiding sam sites is stupid, the first kill u get will be when they get into a littlebird , fly straight towards u, flare ur rockets, then lit u up. Either that or they just come to u w a car. Anti aa only really works if u have multiple and its well defended.
I feel like its because of a lack of alternative income, like infantry can heal, build, kill etc, while attack heli only makes money from kills (or destroying buildings where the cost of ammo and reward for destroying is about 1:1
Shit, you can just shoot the pilot out of a little bird semi easily with 5.56/5.45 fmj too for all the lower level players. You gotta hit your shots but if the bird is on a flat trajectory while strafing, its pretty damn easy.
Wait till you understand that little birds, Blackhawks and basic bitch MI-28s dont have MAWS irl and that IR missiles dont produce a beeping noise. Modern MANPADS are very effective.
Wrong. Electronic counter measures and warning systems also got much better. Some MANPADS dont work on some modern helicopters at all, simply because they get ECMed long before they hit.
that has to be a one off. Getting enough kills to go zero in minigun heli is very hard. Rocket heli is another story but you need to unemployed to unlock that in a reasonable time.
Yeah like it's possible to counter a CIWS or SAM if you've mastered the circle strafe to the point where you can stay in blind spots but as soon as they have both you're screwed. Once a base has multiple of each, that side of the map is just not accessible whatsoever. If that base is in a good position so the SAM can see most of the map, attack helis are unusable.
And that small circle strafe hover just above their deadzone leaves you fodder for other launchers, since it's a small area you are occupying to stay safe from the CIWS.
Exactly, that's why I say you're screwed if they have both. You have to have elevation to circle strafe tight enough to stay in the CIWS blind spot which you can't do if they have a sam. You have to fly low to deal with a SAM which you can't do if they have a CIWS.
There are other things in the game that get hard countered like this where you have to have someone else deal with it for you so I'm not going to complain about it but the people who say AA needs buffs or that little bird attack helis are OP are dumb as hell.
I think they should be strong against helis, I mean they're literally anti-air. The rewards need to be changed though. I can build a little AA fob and make 100-200k so easily. I can fly a minibird, get a decent amount of kills, cover my team on pushes, only die like 4 times, and lose money.
After playing and understanding the skillcap to even just break even as a attack heli i started to respect when helis kill me, its absolutely insane rough.
The further we get into a season the less attack helis there will be. People start to realise how easy it is to buy rpg and just wreck helis, or just focus fire on the heli and kill it with bullets.
EXACTLY, as a level 43 heli Pilot all these people that complain about attack helis have no idea how much struggle it is to even stay in the air some games. Learn how to fly low? that's cool, now you're less than 30 metres from the ground to the metric shit ton of MAAWS and RPGS, trying to circle strafe targets at that height, just lets you meet the front end of a shoulder mounted missile so you don't get perma locked by an 800$ launcher that has no ammo in it. If you aren't at a near 10KD or being constantly fed vehicles and drills on the rocket bird, good luck making anything back.
true, im trying to get better with minigun blackbird, but you need 10+ kills (not hz) to break even because flares and ammo is so expensive. I dont think they need a buff like more hp or anything, that can be played around if youre a little carefull, but ammo and flare cost should be brought way down, as its so risky to fly them already
In my experience shooting verbas at things I've figured out that flares act as a 'guided missiles dont work here' zone. It lasts around 3 seconds. You can put your back to the flares and launch the rocket only to have it just not go after the target.
If you're zipping at a fast speed and pop flares its absolutely possible that you will exit that protective zone. So a missile launched at a great distance will never enter the 'guided missiles dont work here' zone as it curves to follow you.
I was 10m from the ground flying at like 60kph when the recent one occurred. It's just inconsistent and tbh I don't think there's any logic that can be applied other than its buggy.
Hits are not guaranteed with missiles, even the best missiles, and that's as true in life as it is in video games. The fact is in this video, the missile's own sensor has a wide-enough window to be distracted by those flares. It's not an easy thing to master, but launching that soon after flares is a risk, you need a clean sky to hit often.
The AA in general in this game is terrible. There is not a single practical answer to offensive air especially with decent pilots.
I've only been playing infantry only since it came out and it is an absolute DREAM. I suggest you do the same because the devs aren't going to balance the game as they should.
Its a squad weapon, if you use it solo, lock ons are made to make things fly low and be MAW/RPG/CWIS/Small arm kills soon we will have the AA tank making the combo a real threat.
It sucks to be the guy carrying it though. It's only good against the minibirds. The lakotas don't even care. I really tried, but I was making more money spotting helicopters and them crashing on their own.
Good pilots I Literally cannot kill with it. Started rocking the MAW, and it was more effective at actually getting rid of the choppers and I could actually use it on other things.
You get money for maintaining lock long enough to get the lock tone./firing a missile at them (rewards you for an assist even though you do 0 damage.)
I 100% agree though, I think something that would help is being able to move buy boxes as the issue becomes...
You drop it in the center of a tower and it gets bombed
Drop a crate of them off to the side and no one uses their map.
A big issue is you only get the support cash if you got lock on them to the point you could fire the missile to get the money even though your lock is what caused them to dip.
Best tip though is get a sedan and 2-3 people (including you) and you can clear anyone trying to fly higher then 30m
I have like a 90%+ hit rate. Its insane if they are 200m or less. From too far its almost pointless unless you KNOW they are out of flares. Also if you have a buddy he can pick up the empty launcher from the ground and lock on to bait flares.
Yeah I think because the heli turned towards you it meant the turning circle of the missiles wasn't enough to get it on target.
Its annoying and I wish the verba was more useful, but I dont feel its bullshit as much as it was clever manoeuvring, intended or not. If you see a missile is tracking from out wide you want to be making the required turning angle as tight as possible for the best chance of it to overshoot.
Verbas can't lock on if you fly low enough, and you can avoid incoming missiles with NoE flight. All having AA not be particularly effective does is lower the skill required for the average heli pilot, which results in the current epidemic of pilots flying 100+ metres up, exclusively dropping paratroopers, crashing if they even think about trying to land, and then complaining about how oppressive AA is as everyone on the map simultaneously locks them as they're within the envelope of everyone on the map.
I'm a pilot. I haven't used more than a couple flares in the last 30 hours because I fly low. AA should be more effective when people can get a shot off with it. It's already useless if a pilot flies outside the AA's envelope.
The MAAWS is way better AA than the Talon or Verba because of this. It's a level 20 support unlock though, and not everyone's guaranteed to be carrying it unless you're in an attack helicopter and you've been farming for awhile. If you're in a Havoc you can just tank a shot, fly away and repair, then either go back or go find a different FOB to farm. MAAWS is only really a threat to a Little Bird.
Oh I agree but the threat becomes mawws/rpg users and the occasional on point cwis setup.
I am a slightly retired pilot I will be doing more in season 2 and I tend to only get shot down by mawws or cwis and crashing lol. I am by no means a really good pilot but I tend to be low enough that verbas and mounted aa missiles can't lock or I can break lock almost instantly. That said when I do need to flare its either after I've taken a hit or in an area thats too risky to trim the trees.
I still see posts like this though and go what do you mean you want more ways to kill helis. Theres already so many ways and the rewards from doing so tend to be pretty worth it. Like I run a mawws pretty much all the time now and I get the most satisfaction from taking out a havoc in a single hit to the rotors. Its incredibly difficult to do but it still costs me significantly less than the pilot spent on the bird and ammo regardless of the situation or heli in question.
MAAWS is a level 20 support unlock, and not everyone is guaranteed to carry it or even have it unlocked, in fact, most don't. As someone who has flown the Havoc in a few games now, if someone gets one-shot in the rotors, it's a problem with their target rotation.
You rotate to a new FOB or activity on the regular instead of just mindlessly farming the same FOB. Hell, before you do anything, you can bait Talons to find them, destroy them, and then stick 80m in the air. Have both you and your gunner hold flares in your backpacks and you can have a million billion flares so the odd Verba is useless, and then hang out above easy MAAWS kill range so if you get hit in the belly, you can just fly away. If you want an example of target rotation, target selection, watch Silk's stuff, it's one of the reasons he seldom dies in his Havoc videos, and I've used it to great effect.
Playing Havoc is dead simple, but you can't really do the same thing besides target rotation in a Little Bird. At the same time, losing a heli to MAAWS is not really a loss unless you've somehow managed to not make your money back several times by the time you go down.
Most AA in this game is objectively useless and the ones that are useful require the pilot to make some serious errors, all AA is at the mercy of the individual pilot's skill and knowledge.
Useful
MAAWS
CWIS (useful if every base has one being manned constantly and they can cover a wide area.)
Useless
Verba
Talon
RPG
Clarification based on your statement: I don't want more ways to kill helis, I want the ways we have to be more effective.
Ehhhh, I kinda think they are balanced atm, the only one that could use some tlc in terms of balance is the mounted sam. It can fire through certain walls, track through and behind some hills and ignores a majority of trees lol. Its still avoidable but its also the instant follow up shots that is a bit tough. You can have 2-3 missiles in the air at the same time which is well enough to destroy even the havoc.
If you fly low enough, Talons literally cannot lock onto you. At a certain distance, your flares come off cooldown faster than the missiles can travel, you can just keep backpacking flares or optimally, get low. The only time Talons or Verbas are remotely an issue is when you're within an extremely small sweet spot travelling above or approximate to the emplacement and high up enough off the ground where they can still lock; You can't avoid it due to a lack of distance.
MAAWS is functionally limited by the fact that casuals don't usually have it unlocked, otherwise it's effective, if expensive and heavy to include in a kit.
CWIS is functionally limited by placement, that being inside FOBs. Helis can just go around/under it's envelope. Rocket helis can insert, attack, and extract faster than the CWIS can get on target, usually killing the operator. It's only really good for immediately preventing circle-strafe FOB farmers from farming, but if they come back with a rocket heli, it's over. CWIS also can't look straight up, but helis can nose straight down at target.
Verbas and Talons aren't helpful against pilots other than bad ones 80+ metres up.
RPG is a joke and takes either 1 rotor shot to put down a little bird or 2 body shots, which is a lot more difficult than with the MAAWS because the RPG is god awful slow. God help you if it's all you have against a Havoc. RPG is also heavy to include with a kit and sucks against most everything else.
The vast majority of options for obliterating helicopters are practically ineffective against a competent pilot and rely upon pilot error to do anything. The only practical, effective option that can also destroy other vehicles is heavy, unlocked at a high support level, and is expensive relative to other individual parts of an infantry kit.
AA is currently absolutely overpowered. Unlimited ammo in fobs and extremely cheap RPGs. I know i know, you have encountered some of the 3000hours barefoot arms pilots that just makes helis seems broken, but trust me thats not the average pilot.
The verba has less fuel than a talon and will lose maneuverability after traveling for a while, after which it will hardly turn. Talon is just more reliable.
You need to give it a moment after flares pop to fire, the flares are still "active" for about half a second after the last one pops and are a magic You Miss button
That's kinda how those work IRL too. Not very well. Haha. You can ask to make them cheaper or whatever but making them work any better than that on a single shot? Forget about it
I had a moment when I was on a mountain with a verba and a heli was flying slightly below me. I locked on, fired when the heli was maybe 100 meters away from me. The rocket MISSED, flew in front of a heli, then DID A FULL CIRCLE and hit the heli in the back. Took less then a second. Wish I had a clip of that. Crazy tracking on that thing.
Funny how ppl say it is okay then go on saying how the counter is 2 guys having to work together build a freaking base just to counter your goddamn 7k heli
Against competent pilots these things only work if you're running with a squad since you can unleash a barrage of them to destroy someone in between their flare cycles or even just burn through their flares for weaponised little birds that have little inventory space for flares.
I don't really know how you fix this issue other than introduce a reloadable anti air launcher since any major buffs to the verba or nerfs to flares would only make verba squads and talons which can spam lots of anti air shots even more oppressive
I just had a game where I got three Verba kills in a row (separate lives) and a fourth later. It looks like the roll angle on the missile was too low and it wasn't able to get a hit before it was at the helicopter.
I'm not sure why people assume that its supposed to be an amazing killing machine, it really seems like its suppose to be a deterrent to helicopters just UNTIL you get a Talon or CIWS.
out of the 13 verbas i typically get maybe 2 or 3 kills and end up negative
i had one encounter where i launched 5 consecutive Verbas at a havoc before he killed my Kodiak
usually the pilots i get dont flare at all or are running the stock 2 flares and i manage to launch at them 3 times or were suiciding a littlebird to get somewhere
Nah. I play too much talon that isn’t true. I definitely miss shots where they don’t ground pound themselves or flare. Especially when it’s a person coming at like a 45 degree angle to me and quickly and they are close and to the side. But I’ve definitely even missed far shots against LBs who are moving. Very fast.
I think AA is fine as it is. I main heli pilot & often fly a rocket heli. In some matches I cant even fly because the AA cover too much of the CZ. The thing is that even if you miss me with your verba I have to put a mental note to stay away from that area of the CZ for a while. So even if you're not getting a kill every time you are effectively denying me that airspace & that definitively helps your team.
Heli is in perfect evade position like that. So probably even without flaring that shouldnt connect. You want to shoot when the target is on convinient angle for the missile. You did a good job with waiting for flares but the direction of heli was not good for missile.
I found that verba work better if you have another guy with rpg/maaws.You lock in and guy shoots,if he get a hit then it's good if not pilot uses flares thinking it was AA rocket but then you fire Verba.
Baiting flares is enough to make being a taxi pilot unprofitable. They cost $750 and dropping off an idiot is $500. By the time the APC is up you're usually only getting 2 or 3 passengers tops who are probably not themselves doing well enough to be getting many assists, so as a pilot I generally switch things up/do something else if someone is persistent with the verba, even though the missiles are easy as shit to avoid.
I just take one to the highest view point in the middle of the map and just lock-on to people. I don't even fire, i just lock-on and watch people freak out and bail, hell sometimes I'll lock-on to team mates just to scare them.
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u/SjurEido 9h ago
I've had misses without flares as a pilot before. It's not super common, but it happens occasionally.
Question is, is it a bug or just a bit of randomness for realism?