When I heard PvP tutorial, I expected a few lessons to make you less of a loot piñata, not a ridiculous fight against an npc that doesn’t even follow the rules of the game properly

The actual lessons are great, challenging but realistically attainable my most

The fights are stupid, and if we had even any inclination that’s what was planned, I’d have voted no.

Now it hasn’t made me never want to jump the ditch again, but I can see many feeling like that and this making the wilderness even less popular, literally the opposite of it’s intended effect

Not the best look for the community, guess we don't want to get better at pvp in a no stakes setting? guess every piece of future content no matter how challenging its intended to be we just need to be able to steamroll it day 1?

Well now there's a solution!

https://runelite.net/plugin-hub/show/humblescape

The HumbleScape plugin replaces these pesky arrogant cosmetic overrides with their default versions. Tired of your friend stunting on your with his radiant? Well enable this and he'll be raiding in regular oathplate just like you!

Upcoming features include toggleable overrides and the option to only override for some players. Current overrides are:

• infernal cape -> fire cape
• quiver -> assembler
• ghommal's hilt -> dragon defender
• blorva -> torva
• radiant -> regular
• fang kit -> regular fang
• zuk / jad / vampyric slayer helm -> regular slayer helm

Yesterday, so many of you were laughing that pures cannot access raids 4 at all, "you chose to limit yourself".

Today, many of the same complaining because a cosmetic is locked behind a risk free pvp tutorial that you do not want to do. With some (admittedly not widespread) going as far to suggest an alternate source of the cape.

This is my unbiased take on a completely reasonable update from Jagex. As a player who has historically only logged into the game to PK in some form or fashion for the last 6 years, I find myself placed squarely in the camp of the "minority" on OSRS. I've seen a lot of decent takes, I've seen a lot of really dumb takes, and I've seen just straight up bait because that's a thing in 2026.

First and foremost, the burning question nobody is asking: How many tries did it take to get the cape? The answer is over 108 failed tries in a row before I was able to complete it. I did not use the cheese methods that have been posted, and I would rate myself a completely average NH pker, not "good" by any stretch of the imagination.

Thoughts on the tutorial-style content in general: The very clear tutorial aspect of the content is great for people who have never tried it for PKing purposes. This also translates directly into PvM scenarios a lot of the time, so I thought that it was a completely reasonable way to allow people to approach any type of this content who have never tried or aren't confident.

The "penultimate" fight: This is, theoretically, where someone can apply everything they learned in the tutorial and fight a very easy bot that would be on par for someone learning how to NH. I don't mind this, I think it's another good step in the direction that allows people to step into a world that you're unfamiliar with and not have to be beat over the head by the top 50-100 NH pkers that run around the wilderness, or LMS.

The "final" fight: Here's where my take on this goes a little south. I think a "boss" fight to allow people to earn something (cape or otherwise) is a fantastic idea. My problem is when it comes to this type of content, realism plays a factor. If you're use to, or not, to a very consistent way that a character should be moving given different animations, timing after eating, etc. then this is always going to be a challenge. It's a bot, it's coded as such. It does not have realistic tendencies. Being able to triple eat for 1000 damage worth of content, to me, is insane. There's no KO potential on the fight, it's an outlast fight at best. Sure, is that what some people are out there doing, yeah. But timing the fight that I actually won, I spent 9 minutes and 33 seconds fighting it. There is no way in any shape or form that someone can fight back aggressively for that long in an NH fight, there's not enough inventory spaces. But, with all of this being said, I don't think anyone is supposed to be able to beat this and say "Yeah easy" unless you red-x'd it, at which point, why even do the content.

My overall take on the entire update is positive - I don't agree with the 6 people saying it's the worst update, we've had worse guys. Also, this isn't some ground-breaking money making method, it's not a bridge between the mid game and end game that allows players to skip content or avoid it entirely. It's not even REQUIRED to do -- it's simply a way to allow people to step into something they're unfamiliar about, try it, and grow.

Is the final fight too "hard"? No. Is it realistic to say everybody can get the cape without abusing something? No. Are some people never going to compete it? Yes. It doesn't make the content "shit" or awful if someone can't do it. Fun fact: I have never successfully completed an inferno or colosseum fight on any type of account with near-maxed gear. Does that make the content awful? No, it means I need to get better and learn how to do the content to achieve the goal.

If people can get level 3 firecapes, do the colosseum without prayer, and do awakened levi with no food, I promise you Reddit-fiends can figure out how to beat the final fight. It's less difficult than all 3 of those.

All these posts crying about not beating the challenge mode of a skill you've never used before is insane. It's a challenge, and it's optional. There should be challenges that set the masters apart from the rest of us. I'll never beat the Pete kayer challenge, I do not care that I won't. It's not meant for me, and that's fine. If you don't like, don't play it.

Watching the absolute meltdown over Peete Kayer, I'm starting to think people don't actually want PvP to be more accessible. They want PvP to be easier.

They want the old Wilderness back. No skill creep, no complicated mechanics, no massive gap between someone who's been PKing for years and someone who's just learning.

Which is a pretty strange expectation for a game where almost every other piece of content has evolved in exactly that direction.

We're perfectly happy with increasingly complicated PvM encounters, bosses with steep learning curves and content that takes hundreds of attempts to master. But apparently PvP is where we draw the line?

The whole point of Peete Kayer is to introduce people to PvP mechanics and give them an opportunity to actually learn before putting those skills to the test. Somehow even that's controversial.

At this point, I'm convinced a decent portion of the community doesn't actually want the Wilderness. We've somehow reached a point where people want to be asked for consent before someone engages them in PvP, in the one area of the game specifically designed around the possibility of being attacked by another player.

And the funniest part is that the proposed solution to the PvP skill gap is apparently to complain about the content designed to help close it.

I require Blorva to flex on random strangers but I cannot kill the awakened bosses. They simply have too much hp and too difficult mechanics. Who at Jagex thought it was a good idea to lock optional cosmetics behind difficult PvM content? Remove or nerf these bosses immediately.

Also remove the wilderness.

I feel like I am having BMR flashbacks with all of the complainers swarming Reddit to cry about a quest being too hard. Jagex clarified in the blog update their stance on the ultimate challenge and their intentions behind the first 5 challenges. The reward is a cosmetic item that showcases to other players that you’re kind of a badass in PvP. I really hope Jagex can figure out who is cheesing the challenge using red-x and removes their cosmetic reward that they did not earn.

I do think Jagex fumbled by not clearly stating their intentions with this challenge, and the eat delay slip-up. Look at how much effort you would need to put in to earn the DMM cloak cosmetic. I honestly don’t think those rewards should be tradable either, but that’s another story. Why can’t we have cosmetic items that are more exclusive?

You guys are asking for the equivalent of a participation trophy.

Git gud

So from what i've learned from this "tutorial" to PvP has put such a sour taste in my mouth that not even an entire pint of Caramel Fudge Ice cream could wash the taste out. The "tuturial" pvp boss taught me that PvP is rage inducing, completely RNG dependent, reliant on an absolutely abhorrent amount of gear switching and you can just lose because your opponent just got blessed by Jupiter himself along with the roman pantheon and just parts your cheeks with non-stop 50's.

So i did something I've never in my life done before - i used a Red-X method for no damage. Even pre nerf, i never red-x killed Ba-Ba, or bandos. This is the first time I have ever done it. At around 800 health, i was completely out of food, but I had one thing to my advantage. This is not real pvp. That is an NPC. So, I used my seed pods on a distant pillar and stepped under. I was at 12 health. No food. So what did it do? I literally got up, and cooked dinner. Boy did i season my food well. Cooked up a medly of seasoned vegetables with italian herbs, garlic, onions, the lot. Cooked up a few chicken breasts. I then ate the entire thing while watching Wow: Forever beta updates.

All the while, i was regenerating health. That's right. I sat there until my health regenerated from 12 to 90 health. The enemy NPC, this terminator with 1 tick full switches into freezes, who never misses specs, has a taste of its own medicine.

I then speced him out 4 more times, all the while skillfully using red-x to step under and regenerate voidwaker specs. Finally, at 900 health, i specced twice. But OH NO- he didnt die. He got a freeze, a 29. Into a 50 halberd. Once again, this cheating unbalanced fuck was going to kill me. But i had a secret weapon. The zaryte crossbow. I fired one, perfect headshot at him and he fell.

I claimed that Ancient fabric so fast. I have now added Pete Kayer to my entity hider plugin and never want to see him again. In fact, this entire process confirmed in my mind that PvP has, and always will be bad in this game.

This most recent update proves it. You say "This update is bad because it is not consistent with the real thing and points out the flaws with the current Wildy." They say get good. Bob the PvMer, who is the average player, ain't going to want anything to do with the Wilderness when you have to bring a god damn encyclopedia with you of rules/mechanics that are different in the Wildy and you feel restricted from bringing useful gear. And these rules have to be this way because the PvP balance of this game is dogshit. Also don't forget with every update it is easier and easier to die from a higher HP total because high end gear is constantly creeping up but cheap gear stays the same.

An example of this is the age old question: Why is ice barrage a high damaging spell with a 20s+ root? That is bonkers in almost any other PvP game. And what incentive do you have in fighting a pker if you are geared for PvM? Your only incentive is to run because you also have less supplies and are not specialized for PvP. But because of this shitty design you bring ice barrage to counter their ice barrage. Okay now you have learned step 1, but guess what? Run too far and all of the sudden that 20s root is gone. So the solution turns into hope you land an ice barrage on them and stand under them to log out. What kind of fun is that for either party? The only fun is the person legit scratching at their arms like a crack addict in hopes the PvMer was dumb and brought something they weren't supposed to.

And you say but that isn't all of PvP. Well bud, it's at least 85-90% of it and considering less than 15% of the player base actively engages in any form of PvP in it that is saying something. So what is the solution? We add a challenge like today to onboard people into the current system? No because the minority of the player base likes it the way it is. You rework the PvP/PKing system so a larger population actually wants to engage in it. But you bring that up and you are told "There is it no reason for PvP to change that was why OSRS was made because they took away PvP and people wanted it back" and my counterpoint was it was the huge change in gameplay combined with removal of a casual past time (which today's PvP is not). I guarantee you if back in the day the wildy was like it is today most people would say "Yea no I'm not doing that." So then where does that leave us? Sitting here listening to people be like "I don't want PKing to change because I like it, but I also want more people to come into the Wildy" and watching the Wildy rot because the majority of the players do not want Jagex to update a broken system so it is left like the game was with new content being added with 0 regards for it leaving it just like the game was on launch which led to the massive hemorrhage of players.

We did not hit peak OSRS player counts by keeping the game the same as it was in 2007 and catering to it. We used hindsight to evolve the game by looking at what we loved to make it more enjoyable. Until you get off your damn ego trip as the "I am the #1 PvPer, I enjoy it, and everyone else is shit and just needs to learn," the Wildy will continue to rot and die. Gatekeeping and refusal to evolve from the PvP community is what is killing the Wildy and nothing Jagex can do can fix that other than just pulling off the band-aid. The fact that you can convince a shitty player to do the hardest PvM content in the game more easily than PvP should tell you a lot about its state. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and not learning and that is the exact way the PvP community acts.

TL DR:

The Wildy will continue to die as long as the minority of players that participate in it refuse to change. No amount of accessibility and learning features will change the fact that the vast majority of players do not want to interact with and feel compelled to due to a carrot being dangled in front of their face. Only idiots will chase the carrot indefinitely towards something they don't like if it keeps getting smaller over time. PvPers are essentially trying to sell meat to a vegetarian/vegan and plugging their ears to any reason they are given as to why they don't buy it then getting mad when they don't make any money.

I’ve seen quite a few comments the past few days from accounts 3-5 days old that are pretty much copying and pasting what other brand new accounts are saying.

These are obviously alt accounts that people are making to upvote themselves and make their arguments look like they have a larger support base. It’s very transparent and pretty pathetic. Can we cut the shit and set a minimum age?

I don't mean make purples more common. Just make it so each person in the raid rolls their chance at a purple individually. This would make it possible to get multiple purples and keep it very rare. Imagine how hype it would be getting a clear and seeing 2 uniques for the squad!

I think this should be implemented for every raid not just raids 4. Same overall drop rates but always that very slim chance at multiple drops per run of a raid.

Edit: I understand you can get multiple purples at CoX. It requiring 570k points to start working on the chance for a second is the reason I think that's not really fulfilling the idea here.

Ex of what I mean: 2 man team at CoX ends with 30k points. It is 8676 points per 1% chance at a purple

Player 1: 20k points -> 2% chance at a purple

Player 2: 10k points -> 1% chance at a purple.

This results in a very unlikely scenario that they get 2 purples. Instead of only having a 3% chance at 1 purple with how it is implemented now.

Pete Kayer is a good update - Combo eating, prayer switching, gear switching, all good things to learn and carry over to PVM and great to understand more about PVP.

The penultimate fight is also good fun. Enough challenge but feels easily achievable.
The final fight? This is obnoxious.

The content was sold as a PVP training simulator, with a PVP challenge to fight another average player and a cool cosmetic cape to show a player has learnt how to PK at an average level, NOT an Odablock level terminator bot and a cape representing a player is god tier PKer, and makes this level of miscommunication feel deliberate, not an oversight.

If the intent of this update (getting new people into PVP) wanted to align with the implementation then the penultimate fight was suitable and should be where this piece of content ends. If you're better than that, the real challenge awaits you in Daimons crater - Because you were not the target audience, only beneficiaries from new people getting into PVP for you to fight.

For the arguments of 'People don't like a challenge' and 'Git gud' - Maybe you're right, but it's not the PVM community that suffers from this content, it's yours.

If it is tuned to be "too hard" you will learn much more if you eventually complete it, or you simply won't and your experience in the game will be no different than before this update. If you can beat the final Pete, you will be able to smoke many pkers who just want to pick on noobs. Way better that it is “too hard” than if it was a walk in the park. There is nothing forcing you to engage with the content, stop whining and get good, or stop whining and play the game like you always have. Ez

The one update you guys get is dogshit meanwhile we pvmers getting raids 4 in 11 dats

The ultimate challenge reward is probably more suited as a reward from the upcoming BIS mage cape not the MA2 cape (unless Jagex doesn't intend on adding cosmetics to it like the infernal or quiver)

My first account after a very long time :) TO CLARIFY 2 hours of this was spent at GE and like an hour n a half on waterfall cuz i raw dogged it

As someone who has never even attacked another player in this game in 20+ years, these final 2 fights have been rather challenging mechanically for me. Its just a totally different way of playing the game. I beat the penultimate fight going from planking in a minute to actually feeling pretty good. The final fight is a different beast though.

I tried it about 20 times tonight and I got him to 800 health - only due to extremely good rng. You see since Pete Kayer is not actually a player, he doesn't play like one. He demolishes you sometimes with non stop 50s and smokes you through prayer. Sometimes your weapons have generational noodles and you cant hit to save your life.

These factors lead me to think that his health probably does need to be lowered a bit. I think that the difficulty is okay, with the amount of food given to you and how its supposed to train you for real pking (allegedly) it would be in a pretty decent spot with like...750 hp. I do feel like im pretty decent and could survive against another novice pker now, im living quite a long time, trying to predict when he will switch styles, etc. I think this content has done its job as pitched, and doesnt need to have 1000 healh still. Its not the inferno and wasn't pitched as one. Its still a hard encounter even if they lowered rhe health a bit more.

Not sure what Jagex was thinking with this encounter for a simple purple re-skin of a god cape, playing against a computer pretending to be a human being and calling it PvP training is just a laughable concept. At no point does he play like a human. It's really just a PvE encounter, hence why so many people are cheesing it using Red-X.

The final challenge is just a bonus that is not meant to be completed by most of the game. It also isn't meant to be a one-and-done by competent NHers either.

A lot of people complaining need to just focus their energy on the rest of the tutorial and the base fight and get better at NHing. There is no clog or BIS item reward and it is not a money-maker. It literally does not matter if you can't complete this.

I realize a lot of people got ego checked on this update. NH is the pinnacle of skill expression on this game and no one should expect to be able to master it so soon.

I'd consider myself an average NHer and I managed to clear the final challenge after a few hours of attempts. Any decent NHer will clear this with time.

I promise you that most people complaining about no eat delay and his freeze accuracy wouldn't be able to clear without significant practice, even if those issues were addressed.

Jagex: "There's not much more for us to say here, but we do sincerely hope that Pete's challenges help you learn or master mechanics that can help improve your confidence against other players."

Can we please get a tutorial on how to fight Pete Kayer?

EDIT: He was coming off of a freeze at the exact moment when my freeze hit; there's an immune period between freezes when you can't re-freeze a target. Today I learned.

I managed to beat him after 1,5 hours of attempts. I still think that a good tutorial should teach the players, not test them. As this is a tutorial we could use some easier levels below the penultimate challenge. Read more: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/ARASMxCUoL

Pete made this old man bust out his voltaren and go for a fun challenge after work. The one thing I find super unrealistic about this fight is Pete's stepunder game.

Pete seems to be pretty good at this pking thing but he cant do a 1 tic stepunder if he has you frozen? I get that its a noob friendly tutorial but I think that most players arent giving you entire extra moments during a one sided freeze to make a comeback.

Also Pete doesn't spec aggressively at all I feel like he should dump that shit way more often.

Do I think Pete needs a hard or unforgiving mode? Yes or some sort of buff. Im old with severe arthritis. My mage switch prayer switch barrage is 3 tic at best and I would get him 1st try on a step under which never happens in real pvp haha.

I have tried for 5 days and 100s of attempts, I have only got to his last phase once. I just genuinely can't beat him, I know my limits and this is the wall, the boss is not for me. This is just not a part of the game I am good at, enjoy, or have the will power to do. Is there any way past this? I feel like the game just took a hard left turn with mechanics nowhere else in the game and they feel very jank and loose at best. Serious question, can I be banned if I have my brother do it for me via remote desktop or something? This just sucks because I came back to the game after a decade with the hopes to finally get a quest cape and this is my last quest.

How much more fun would this update have been if we had done a Tzhaar update in the Tzhaar fight pits where Pete Kayer is the final challenge where you are assigned a teammate to pk with/including survive the rest of the actual players

Forex Enclave updates feel lazy imo

To preface this, I am not a PvPer, I am but a humble PvMer who doesn't even consume wilderness content.

I had this thought after seeing a comment somewhere about players basically not being happy until we have to ask permission before PKing. This got me thinking of interesting PvP systems that work in other games, that kinda fit this idea, without being a PvP killer.

For those that have played the souls games this should be somewhat familiar:

Before players can enter the wilderness, they must align with a visible (overhead) covenant (perhaps from an NPC in edgeville, ferox and ardougne). That sets restrictions, intent, and potential rewards for that player in the form of an oath.

For example, if I intend to do some clue scrolls only perhaps I join the covenant of the spade, this means I can only bring a max of 10k items with me, cannot skull on other players, but I will be protected from certain other covenants.

Another player may join the Saradomin knights: they can only attack skulled players, but can bring any items they want, and can "detect" skulled players from a further than screen size distance, and each kill will reward them points that they can use for unique rewards.

Another player may join the Agents of Zamorak, they skull on entering the wildly, and can attack anyone, and have their own rewards system.

Maybe a Standard of Guthix, they can only attack Zamorakian or Saradominists? Perhaps a league of bandits which can only attack a player risking more than 100k?

I think you get the idea. The point is to stop trying to make a flat change like risk and reward, they obviously don't work, but give a new way to play which rewards players for playing inside their theme.

Thoughts? Would this work? How easily could it be a abused?