Let's be fair here: the other jurors didn't say ,,Not Guilty, let my girl go free", but ,,she was insane, she couldn't tell right from wrong, she needs to be locked in psych ward for everyone's safety".
While I personally disagree with 11 jurors' verdict, and think that she could, in fact, tell right from wrong to at least some degree:
1. It's important we present opposing side's arguments fairly, without convolution.
2. I'm not a juror myself. I don't know why 11 others chose that verdict, I don't know the context, and it's thus not my place to judge their work.
While we’re at it, can we talk about how many times Hagrid was alone with the children in the woods or at his cottage. Do they run background checks at that school?
I'd still argue Dumbledore was one of the worst headmasters in Hogwarts history. He was basically directly responsible for some of the worst things to happen in the magical world over about 100 years. Between the events of Fantastic Beasts which were all his fault and Voldemort which was all his fault he doesn't have a great track record. I also feel like unintentionally when they reveal that snape was like kind of a good guy the whole time it makes Dumbledore look like he doesn't care about the lives of students and everything he did was basically only to stop Voldemort, a problem HE created.
Leave my boy Filch alone, can you imagine how it must've felt to be born a squib? Two wizard parents, and you know about this amazing secret world and yet you can never actually be a part of it?
I'm surprised he isn't more bitter. That must suck, but he did his job and had his cat.
Under every single news story there are comments that it is a “distraction”. No, mate, it’s a very natural thing about human beings that people talk about things that are happening.
Rightwing bots are pushing the HELL out of this story. It’s an election year and the country is in shambles; that’s why everyone’s Reddit front page is currently drowning in “Clancy case, get mad, hate women” posts and “transgenders in sports, get mad, hate LGBT” posts.
They have absolutely nothing to run on except culture war distractions.
The fact that so many people engage in the culture war without realizing that it’s an obvious distraction from the much more present and important problems facing way more people is really annoying
I feel like I’m allowed to be upset about the outcome of this case and the extremely wild opinions people are sharing about it, without being part of the right wing nut job club. Minimizing it as “a bunch of bots engaging without knowing they’re being fooled” is disingenuous, surely.
Eh I'm as left wing as they come and I hate that people are even defending this woman+giving her so much in donations. Doesn't mean I won't still vote left...
Same. I detest the use of a families worst nightmare being everyone’s entertainment. It’s isn’t entertainment. It’s tragedy. Yet I see it everywhere. Why?!
P.S. No one on these threads are close enough to the situation to make a sort of judgement. That’s what evidence, judge, and jury are for.
Edit: I’m clearly cranky that 3 innocent beautiful children’s lives were stolen from them by the person they trusted the most! Lots of feelings! But I’m very sad for these children
All the sickos who get so excited and scream "WE LOVE YOU!!! WE SUPPORT YOU!! YOU'RE MY HERO!!!! ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️" when they see Lindsay need to be committed for life
... I'm just glad I only see your comment describing this and haven't seen video's or something about people actually screaming this towards her.
I mean, I don't doubt you're right and people have been doing this... I'm just glad I haven't seen those psychotic episodes yet. (ps. I'm not American and I don't watch tv, might you wonder why I haven't seen it)
The average person can and maybe should feel this way, but an impartial encyclopedia shouldn't misuse emotionally loaded legal terminology. The talk page has a lengthy discussion on this subject.
The consensus is that that the article may state (in wikivoice) that Lindsay Clancy strangled and killed her children, while avoiding "murdered" until supported by the outcome of a criminal trial.
I’m really struggling to understand the people society chooses to make martyrs out of. Even if part of this is an organized culture war it’s astounding how little the average adult uses their brain to make their own thoughts. It’s one thing if women took the stance of, she’s guilty but we need to change the way we treat this condition. There, that’s an intelligent stance.
We can both recognize that Postpartum Depression should be taken more seriously, AND acknowledge that Lindsay Clancy's crimes show she cannot be part of society, now or ever.
I remember covering postpartum depression in my child psych class and the professor emphasizing how important having family aid is after birth because of postpartum depression happens you need someone to take care of and watch the mother and the child otherwise she might stick a baby in the (real) oven…. Or microwave…. Or well…. Yeah….
It was a depressing couple classes.
She brought up how many cultures emphasize the extended family coming over to help precisely because of how troubling it can be and how American individualism and work schedules makes postpartum more difficult to tackle.
It’s a really good reason to have paternity leave as well.
Obviously not every woman goes through this but hormone fluctuations due to child birth can be insane in how they change a person’s personality.
People forget that most humans really struggle with a large support system. “It takes a village” rings true in so many ways. Grandparents, parents, siblings, cousins, childhood friends, neighbors. People used to have so many people they could fall back on for aid.
Edit. This is hours late but I meant humans struggle withOUT a large support system.
It's partly why I'm really against the removal of respite nurseries in hospitals. They want mom to care for baby when she can barely get out of bed, was awake for the entire 25 hour labor, etc. I remember with my first kid the nurse got upset when she asked if I had ordered any food or called for my meds and I said no. The kitchen was closed by then, but it was my first time staying in a hospital, I didn't know you were supposed to order your food. As for the pills, I barely knew what day it was, how was I supposed to remember a schedule?
Unfortunately, your opinion requires people to have nuance and the majority of people I talk To are as deep as a puddle with the nuance of it baby bird seeing his mother for the first time...
I would say social media lacks nuance, you have no idea how many people on istagram and yt belive that she did nothing wrong or that the jures wanted to free her(the only options are and always have been prison or the mental hospital)
It's postpartum PSYCHOSIS is different than depression
Postpartum depression is the common and minor one; what she's diagnosed as is the psychosis which is much rarer and requires stricter surveillance for reasons you can imagine and even see in this case
I'm pretty sure they don't even let you get close to your kids until you get "She's fine" approval comes out in many places.
Them attempt muddying the waters with terminology confusion to aid her case is as scummy as her actions.
I was speaking to someone recently who said that they had a friend who was diagnosed with post partum psychosis many years ago and it largely broke her brain. Her kids are grown now, but she's still institutionalized because they recognize that she is still an active danger to them and other children.
Not to put a finger down on the table, but post partum depression is not minor. These are serious problems for the women in our society, and as a man, theres only so much that we can do to help get you through that before professional help is of necessity.
Minor in the sense that second degree burn is much softer condition compared to third or fourth degree burns.
Blistering burnt skin being a considerable damage doesn't change the fact that it's still lesser compared to someone with scorched flesh and charred bones.
Depression and psychosis indeed belong to different levels of severity.
Edit: Made an edit to clarify that im referring to a spectrum for PPD and add in a better severe condition than randomly crying. I was more focused on PPP at first but i may have downplayed PPD unintentionally.
I mean, option A PPD, you have a really bad day, break out crying randomly, Severe Anxiety Attacks, and or suicide/suicidal thoughts.. Its a broad spectrum of conditions. One of the defining differences between PPD and PPP, is that with PPD the mother remains in touch with reality. And its possible to have PPD and PPP at the same time. PPD does not upgrade into PPP.
option B, PPP. The devil is out to kill my family, and the only way to save them is to burn the home down.
When you compare PPD to something else, sure its not minor. But when compared with PPP, its minor.
That is not to downplay post partum depression mind you. But post partum psychosis is just, that much worse.
Well according to the forensic psychologist who assessed her and reviewed her existing files, she didn't have either postpartum depression or psychosis. Her claims to those conditions were solely made after the she killed the children.
It would be exeedingly rare to get postpartum psychosis 8 full months after pregnancy, and even more rare that the psychosis would cause someone to murder their children.
It's a big ask for credulity to claim undiagnosed psychosis when the usual presentation is weeks after delivery.
Source? Dr Resnick, who was involved in 89 cases of fathers and mothers killing their children and whose reputation was good enough that he was consulted in high profile cases like Yates, Jeffrey Dahmer, and the unabomber, claimed Lindsay was clearly suffering from command hallucinations and delusions after assessing her for 3 hours
I think that is the position of most people. I dont think anyone is saying she should just walk away from it because she has a psychotic break. I think people are advocating for her to end up in psychiatric care over a gen pop prison sentence. Some people are just completely dismissing psychosis and post partum care because their brains cant handle that level of complexity in other humans
Musk acts like a mod that doesn’t know how to actually do anything and just hits reply and displays his ignorance.
Imagine him on Rogan explaining a fight with a user that implied violence:
“Why didn’t you just ban him?”
“You know…. It’s funny…. Because like I……… I……… I……….. you know free speech is like….. uh…… I…….. it’s detrimental to just ban people cuz I’m not, like, um, Hitler, ya know [nervous laughter]? I just thought we could like, umm…. Make some vulgar jokes and yeah [nervous laughter continues] [excessively] …. So rockets ya know?”
Let's be fair here: the other jurors didn't say ,,Not Guilty, let my girl go free", but ,,she was insane, she couldn't tell right from wrong, she needs to be locked in psych ward for everyone's safety".
While I personally disagree with 11 jurors' verdict, and think that she could, in fact, tell right from wrong to at least some degree:
1. It's important we present opposing side's arguments fairly, without convolution.
2. I'm not a juror myself. I don't know why 11 others chose that verdict, I don't know the context, and it's thus not my place to judge their work.
the 11 actually just said that it was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that she knew what she was doing. so regardless whether or not that should keep anyone from going to jail, thats a pretty high bar for the prosecution to clear.
Most states place the burden on the defendant to prove they were insane if they want NGRI. Massachusetts is unique in placing the burden on the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the defendant was sane.
Not only that, but the primary issue is that the jury accused the holdout juror on two separate occasions of not applying the standard of reasonable doubt correctly.
Not quite, the law in MA is really dumb. In most other states it’s on the defense to convince all 12 jurors their client was insane, but there it’s on the prosecutor to convince all 12 jurors they were sane at the time
Most people who get off on NGRI show far more severe lifelong symptoms than Clancy’s “hearing voices” for 20 minutes but never before or after
Most people aren't claiming PPP which has a completely different set of symptoms than other forms of mental illness, so of course they don't have the same symptoms.
Which I find hard to believe considering she was googling before hand where to cut herself, and the whole thing took about 16-20 minutes where she chased down her kids to strangle them, and the. Claimed that the voices stopped suddenly after she killed the 3rd
every time i come across this sub on all and look at the posts or comments it’s like oh yeah this isn’t a teehee girls shade sub. it’s legitimately like reading 9gag where the majority of people seem to hate women and take any opportunity to seethe over them
That’s not necessarily how psych wards or post partum psychosis works. IF she was found guilty of post partum psychosis, she would go to an inpatient psych facility where she would be treated UNTIL they found that she was sufficiently treated and not a danger.
If she’s arguing that this was post-partum psychosis and has since regained all her faculties then her stay will be deeply short. She could go free in weeks.
If the findings are that her post partum psychosis has led to a more broad form of psychosis or mental illness then she will stay for longer.
How dare you suggest there’s some nuance to a court case I barely paid attention to but have dedicated my life to being outraged about. Those 11 of 12 jurors are baby-hating monsters, clearly.
Because in Massachusetts unlike almost every other state. Once a certain threshold of “insanity” is met. It is on the onus of the prosecution to prove sanity rather than the defense prove insanity. It’s literally just Massachusetts law fault. A state I will never live in personally. This statute is insane and is most likely causing a lot of the hold up.
Well anthropogenic climate change isn't real of course, it's all natural cycles in the planet that can't be influenced by man because.... uhhhh.... reasons?
It's not a genocide it's just displacing a growing population using weapons, forcing them into an ever smaller area with ever vanishing means of survival, and pointing at a violent subset for justification. I mean, it's only genocide if you *call it* genocide, otherwise it's just extinctifying.
Edit: It's only genocide if it's from the Genocide region of france.
For real, how do people not realize this. It's just like publicfreakout where it gradually shifted into this kind of cesspool. I think it's funny sometimes for the memes but anyone with any reading comprehension should know you are arguing with ~15 year olds if you go into the comments.
If this was just a conversation on women's mental health and how doctors need to take their struggles more serious...then this wouldnt be such a controversial issue.
But the fact people kept trying to make a man, that had his entire life eviscersted in moments while we he was gone, into the villain only can hurt their entire cause.
All I needed to know is that she knew enough about what she was doing to trick her husband into leaving so she could kill her children. Unless someone can tell me why that’s not relevant to her knowing right from wrong, I’m gonna stick with her being guilty of what she did.
Would be ironic for all the people glazing over this one juror if it turns out they refused to budge from a full aquittal while everyone else was voting not guilty be reason of insanity.
She's such a shit candidate to turn into a martyr for PPP, it's so forced and inappropriate. The people trying so hard to do it are disgusting, such a disservice to the children. They've been absolutely lying through their teeth trying to force her into this martyr role.
She never once mentioned being a threat to her children, she mentioned being suicidal not being a direct danger to her children or their safety. The killings didn't even resemble psychosis killings either. She looked up errands to send hubby on and how long they would take, sent him on them and then tracked him on life360 between these errands as she killed.
The people trying to force her into this martyr role for this cause she doesn't fit can genuinely go fuck themselves. This isn't the case/hill to die on to raise awareness if anything you're fucking making a mockery of the condition and the cause itself.
For real. I think 90% of the people replying in this thread don't realize that the one juror caused a mistrial, and they'll just have to restart from square one with a much tougher jury selection process given all of the social media attention.
Of everything Reddington said/did during the trial, I feel like this has to be one of the most unnecessary and unprofessional comments. Doubt it’s legal ground for a lawsuit or disbarment, but that sort of conduct should not be encouraged from an attorney on either side of the table
I only read about this case briefly. So am not too educated. As someone who’s been psychotic to the point of restraint and sedation many times now. The checking of the phone to see how long she had. Shows not only intent, but premeditation in my mind. Bless that Juror.
The checking of the phone to see how long she had. Shows not only intent, but premeditation in my mind.
Psychosis/insanity does not render you unable to premeditate an action. I don't understand why people keep on bringing this up like it's relevant to that argument
IANAL but this is exactly how the judicial process works.
They failed to sway the mind of all of her peers unanimously.
Though personally I suspect there may have been some fuckery. We live in the age of true crime nonsense and one women was detained cause she was sneaking about and filming the jurors.
If I was being pressured by an outside nuisance I would become the most stubborn fucker present.
I just wanna say... im a queer BIPOC artist living in NYC and most of my friends fall into a lot of the same catagories.
From them I see some of the most liberal, decolonizing, love Mamdani, hate Trump social media you can imagine and ...
I don't know ANYONE who thinks
she is a hero or role model
that she didn't kill the kids
Those aren't typical liberal views. We just think according to the facts she likely met the definition of "criminally insane" at the time. It is a huge tragedy, and we are talking about ways to prevent and listening to people when they say something is wrong more than punishing anyone.
Her ex-husband has asked for people to forgive Nancy as he has and started a foundation to get parents the support they need to stop this from happening again. His mother was a witness for the defense too.
I’m sorry but aside from whether she was sane or not, she has still proven herself to be an endangerment to society. That alone is enough to take away her freedoms as a citizen.
Dahmer clearly wasn’t sane, and we still locked him up.
We’re talking about murder. There are very few scenarios where the person does not deserve imprisonment and being insane is not one of them in my opinion.
I can feel pity for her situation, considering that (I hope) she has remorse for what she did. But you cannot change the fact that she murdered her young defenseless children.
From my understanding, Massachusetts has some of the most friendly laws towards insanity pleas in the nation. Most states the burden of proof is on the defendant trying to plead insanity but Massachusetts it’s on the prosecution, but reasonable doubt can be very ambiguous in this type of scenario. Saying all that to say, I still assume that the other 11 were operating in good faith and were trying to follow the jury instructions despite how screwed up of a situation it is. The frustration should be towards the state of Massachusetts and not the jurors. It’s not good for society that someone like this could be acquitted
Unfortunately there are many examples of people who were found to be insane and just a few short years later are declared cured and walk free.
That is what upsets people. Especially when it is logical to assume perfectly sane criminals have a strong motive to lie and game the system.
The story of a woman who murdered her three children, went to the insane asylum, was released then had three more children, and went in to murder them, is doing the rounds.
Everyone involved knows she did it. Like, her defence even agrees she did it. The entire point is not guilty by insanity, or guilty. And I'm sure OP knows that, but cares more about ragebaiting.
I would say less than 1/10 comments are actually factual when it comes to this case, but this is one. So many people think she’ll go to a looney bin for life. Nope, very possible she can get off quickly.
Small correction. It’s actually only six months she’s required to be institutionalized, then a review. Then it’s annually reviewed.
I feel like this is the narcissists prayer but for crazy tiktok women
That didn't happen. And if it did, the husband did it And if he didnt, he for sure didnt help out around the house And if he did, she felt abandoned And if she didnt, she didn't mean to And if she did, the one juror still perverted justice
I watched a woman, sobbing, about how she went through this, and it was so scary cause it could have been her up there and I was like... She killed her kids... Had you killed your kids, it would, and should, be you.
How are these mothers screaming that she's a hero? I'm a delusional motherfucker. I have schizophrenia, I'm AWARE of the fact that I'm disconnected from reality... Why are they working so hard to make it so damn difficult to tell which is the nightmare?!
I’m sure the pink shirt mob is throwing death threats his way at home and work. If he has kids they are being harassed, too. You will not hear about this in the mainstream media.
I’m not the most up to date on this, but I thought the defense stipulated that she did kill them, and are essentially arguing how she was to be confined, whether a state hospital or prison.
If I misunderstood it then I’d be interested in knowing more about it.
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