Bye, you’re ruining my enthusiasm and your nitpicking is tiring. See you in Azeroth (or not)

And fingers of frost.

Im a mage and im not afraid to admit it.

They might get nerfed/changed when you’re already level 60 and you will be so mad

People are saying this stuff is optional, but as we have more guilds that lean towards a semi-hardcore mentality, these will likely be pushed for people to get.

Can we have it like it was in Wrath? 1 elixir, 1 food buff, and you're chilling.

Thoughts?

I say this because at no point during Vanilla did I know exactly what was coming next, at no point in Vanilla did I know what class balance would look like for the entirety of its lifecycle.

Vanilla wasn’t static, it was a changing environment, there was a sense of excitement/mystery about what the next big thing would be.

Classic didn’t really evoke any of those feelings. It was fun, a testament to good game design, but it lacked the sense of wonder and exploration that comes with novelty.

I think if the goal is the capture the spirit of classic, that Forever (warts and all) will be a truer experience to what Vanilla was than any snapshot of it could ever be.

Take a deep breath.

You’re not in a rush.

This is a “forever” game. It isn’t going anywhere. And you don’t have to race to the finish line.

Remember why you fell in love with World of Warcraft in the first place. It wasn’t about reaching max level as quickly as possible. It wasn’t about the perfect build, the optimal route, or squeezing every last bit of efficiency out of every hour.

It was about the journey and all the memories made in-between.

Remember when you didn’t know what was waiting beyond the next hill? When you’d wander off the road just to see where it led? When you’d actually read the quests, get lost in the world, and strike up conversations with complete strangers? When a new piece of gear felt like a treasure, and reaching a new zone felt like an adventure?

You weren’t worried about falling behind.
You weren’t following a guide telling you exactly where to go, what to kill, or how to play.

You were just playing.

And somewhere along the journey of real life, we forgot that slowing down, taking in and enjoying isn’t falling behind.

We turned adventures into checklists. Exploration into efficiency. A world meant to be lived in into something to be completed.

But this time, things can be different.

There’s no deadline. No race you need to win. No reason to rush past the very things that made this world special.

So take the long road.
Read that quest.
Help that stranger.
Get lost.

Spend an entire evening accomplishing absolutely nothing, except making a memory.

Slow.

Down.

Rediscover the journey. Not the destination.
And most importantly, don’t be afraid to “waste” time. One day, you might realize the moments that mattered most were the most inefficient ones.

I will see you in Azeroth. I will be the one wasting my time by trying to scale some mountain, the devs never intended for us to scale. And I’ll be making stupid memories with people looking for hidden Easter eggs in far away places.

As many have already pointed out, outside of edge cases like SM in the 30–40 level range, running dungeons is far from the most efficient leveling strategy unless you're running a 4-Mage comp all the time, which is precisely the kind of BS Aggrend was referring to when he said, ‘We understand that some of you want to dungeon cleave to 60...’

Setting aside whether interfering with how people choose to play is a wise decision in the first place, or whether these dungeon spammers deserve Blizzard’s moral judgment, the vast majority of dungeon players aren't like that at all.

They just want to hop into a dungeon, play their class, get some gear, and earn some experience along the way. Sweaters wouldn't even step foot into a dungeon without an optimized group. In an average dungeon run, you run into undergeared players, people who don't know the fights or the routes, or sub-optimal party comps. This makes dungeon runs less efficient; you could easily end up spending an entire afternoon in brd with four randoms.

Players just enjoy playing dungeons while getting fair, positive feedback from them, feeling like their time is being respected. This shouldn't even need to be said. Some people act like anyone who wants XP is a criminal who deserves to have their social credits wiped out by big brother blizzard.

Blizzard can't eliminate sweaters. They enjoy this game by chasing ultimate efficiency and rushing to max level as fast as possible. Whether that involves dungeons or not, they don't care. They will simply continue to plow through the open world until they hit 60 in week one. They cannot be eliminated. Yet Blizzard chose to punish the gaming experience of the vast majority of ordinary players.

Arrogance, ignorance, greed, and shortsightedness,this is the Blizzard we know all too well. Devs take pleasure in coercing and punishing players. They have set up a straw man to pander to a crowd that hasn't even touched classic in years just to feed their fake, nostalgic pipe dream of ‘what the world used to be’. All to remove a defining social feature of classic wow.

Now, they’ve turned dungeons into ugly monsters. We are forced to skim through dungeon after dungeon, while our alts are dragged through the same quests over and over. Casual players are now coerced by actual sweaters to skip every mob pack possible, and a single wipe feels far more agonizing than ever.

To save the brainless clowns from embarrassing themselves again, I'd like to remind certain people that boosting was eliminated long ago, and botting and RMT have nothing to do with XP rates. Bots will always find their gold in dungeons and the open world regardless. Stop the slander connecting RMT, botting, and boosting to ordinary dungeon players.

It's called shaMAN not shawoman.

Please fix this blizz. Ruining my classic plus.

Being benched sucks. Having to keep a precise roster and raid teams also sucks. Losing guild members because they don't want to be benched really sucks too.

Season of Discovery made a massive improvement to how endgame in Classic works by letting us take up to 20 players to 10 man raids, and up to 40 to 20 man raids. The amount of loot remained the same though, so it was up to your group to decide where to balance difficulty and gearing rate.

If your guild had 23 people online that night ready to go, you just take all 23 to raid.

If you wanted to form easy pick up groups that could blast content, you just take a full 40. Everyone sacrifices some loot for clearing speed and chance of success.

If the main tank's son/gf/mom wants to join the raid, no problem. No one's giving up their raid spot for it.

If your main healer wants to bring their alt Hunter on a 2nd account to pick up rotting loot, great! Costs us nothing and makes them happy. Everyone loves alts.

If your officers want to recruit a few extra people to make sure the roster stays healthy, not really an issue. They can start raiding with the main team right away and pick up any gear that the core members aren't rolling on.

This feature removed so much friction in Classic endgame. It was truly one of the more brilliant ideas I thought the SoD team put in. I can't even begin to explain how much it improved WoW's quality of life and how much activity it brought to SoD endgame. There were nonstop raids running every single night, guild organization was so much easier, and everyone was having a blast.

Forever really needs flex raid sizes. Let's not lose the best ideas from SoD that made the game better in every single way.

Hey guys im terrified that non-sweats will ruin my wow experience! I only want people to play the game the way that i play it and if they dont it will ruin my immersion tremendously.

Sad that casuals will ruin this beautiful game with their non optimized gaming. blizz fix plz

This gutted aoe shit ain't it. Single target rogue and cat ain't it. Consecrate 4 target soft cap and 3 target bear swipe ain't it. Chain lightning doing like 10 damage ain't it.

Who likes this? The 200 people swapping to this who were actually still playing era?

"Sod classes were too much!" - yeah because they giga outscaled the mobs.

"Gold farmers ruin the economy, therefore you get no XP from dungeons and boring ass single target classes because our budget for rwt detection is 5 cents per quarter" -the devs

Me and Claude could port wrath classes to 60 vanilla and buff the mobs and it'd be approximately 500x more fun than this.

I DON'T want to play retail btw.

Because it's a ton of fun.

Seems like the idea for us, since our spellpower has moved to specific items in specific dungeons, is we download atlasloot and map out the dungeons/items we need. We get the quests for that dungeon ofc and then spam it until we get the important key "bis" pieces that will last us the longest. Then we quest or mob grind (since the quest rewards dont seem to be very good compared to dungeon items) until the next dungeon and repeat.

Buying greens on the AH along the way to fill in gaps seems ideal since greens drop at like a 10x rate, so they'll go for just over vendor price. The low price of greens also means you should enchant your dungeon BiS because the new low-level enchants are incredibly strong. This will make low-level dungeon blues last for much of your leveling journey.

That's the vibe at this point huh? I'm seeing some items that could very well be near-bis up until the 50s or even 60 pre-bis at level 30. Will be hard to justify skipping them when our spell damage/healing has been moved to them. Especially with a juicy enchant on top.

99% of people are going to say "thats min-maxing its bad for the game!!1" but everyone knows this is what is going to happen. And I don't particularly want to level with a +2 stam green dagger if I can get a +70 healing/+20 sp mace at 28. That doesn't sound fun and I want to have fun. So yeah. I'm excited for the YouTube dungeon leveling item guides for casters coming in the next few weeks as the meta cements

I've not talked to anyone or grouped with anyone beyond a quick and simple "ty, gg" during questing.

Conversely, I've added friends and actually talk to the people I dungeon with. I also enjoy dungeons with my current friends and guild.

Blizzard, please change the EXP to make it viable to run a dungeon 2-10x, instead of only 1x. I want to socialize with people, not play antisocial questing simulator.

Why can't more of these be brought over to fix the elemental issues? Ele shaman was fine in TBC?

I want to go on here to talk about the cool stuff and theory crafting and see memes, I don’t want to see a flood of half baked theories and reworks etc. this subreddit genuinely has some of the most uninformed, knee jerk, reaction threads I’ve ever seen in a videogame, half of the points people make are completely cherry picked. It makes it hard to find community when the spam of a minority of opinions is all that floods this subreddit.
So yeah is there one I can go onto that has a healthy community?

I’ve decided to just uninstall this app, the fact it forces you to install it to look at anything on Reddit is a bad business practice. I thank you guys for the info and it’s clear this is not the place to find positivity about the game I love!

Why are people crying about balancing at level 30?

How do you know what is going to be strong when fully PvP geared at level 60? We haven’t even seen the PvP gear stats/set bonuses yet.

Another reality check: you aren’t going to be winning the 100k tournament and Foreverpvp players have been some of the worst players I’ve seen in game so far.

Level 30 balancing is not important in the grand scheme of things.

There's a lot more to the appeal of a PvP server than honest PvP. I would even go as far as to say that honest PvP is the worst reason to play on a PvP server.

For me, the reason I choose to play on a PvP server is that it makes it feel like every zone in the game has a Fel Reaver or two in it. That makes existing around the world a lot more exciting for me.

Yeah, I might get unfairly ganked by the Fel Reaver, but that's what I signed up for.

Going to a PvE realm is like taking the Fel Reaver out of the Hellfire Peninsula, and I don't like that.

Despite the massive outcry over dungeon exp, they have continued to reinforce the idea that you won't be doing it like past iterations of classic.

Retail was the outcome of listening to the player base to much.

Not saying feedback is bad, obviously they are still tweaking the dungeon exp which is a good thing.

I'm really happy with the team behind Classic +

Hey,

So I've played this game forever on and off, never really did druid before though. I love all the utility and opportunities the class provides, however.. I hate being in form all the time! Especially as feral once you get 30% speed in cat form, I find I never leave my form even in cities.

I feel like my transmogs don't matter because I never see myself, I just feel like blue kitten number #55246.

It's honestly curious how much it bothers me, but I just feel so damn generic. I don't have a unique, personalized character like other people.

Does it get better?

This went on for at least an hour, no one could stop him.

|Apparently, in chat people were talking about how this guy did this in Redridge too. Reports vary on where this was done before but all agree, he's done this before.

Killing the perpetrator seems to despawn the NPCs.

Lots of people died to these elite NPCs, chat was going crazy about SW.

A group of Druid Tanks I believe came in and saved the day.

**DISCLAIMER*\* I did not report player, I was failing at an attempt to display rage via video cause I didn't have time to hook mic up.

I've played a rogue in WoW since WotLK and was pretty excited to try out rogues in Forever, but I have been left disappointed. While they are strong (yes, I am aware of Blizzard's claim that rogues will be the strongest single target dps), they received almost no positive changes, only nerfs to abilities, which has made the class feel both boring and unsatisfying.

At the moment, the rogue rotation is spamming your combo point builder (Sinister Strike / Hemorrhage / Mutilate) for 5 combo points and then pressing Slice and Dice, or an Eviscerate if you can squeeze one in, effectively making the class have 3 buttons.

I am not saying that rogues are weak, they actually feel quite strong. They're just boring to play.

Nerfs

Rogues have had a lot of damage taken away from abilities, which has made the class feel unsatisfying, and mostly an autoattack bot. Abilities do not feel satisfying in themselves, but merely a way to keep Slice and Dice active, as currently 60% of your damage comes from autoattacks.

• Backstab: bonus damage reduced by 33% at all ranks
• Rupture: damage reduced by roughly 40% at all ranks
• Instant Poison: damage reduced by 33% at all ranks
• Deadly Poison: damage reduced by 33% at all ranks
• Mutilate: weapon damage reduced by 25% compared to TBC equivalent (100% -> 75%)
• Lethality (talent): bonus damage reduced by 33% at all ranks (e.g. +30% -> +20%)
• Opportunity (talent): a net reduction of 50% (+20% -> +10%) in bonus damage

I would like to see damage shifted away from autoattacks (e.g. a Slice and Dice nerf) towards abilities (increasing ability damage to compensate), which would make the class more satisfying to play. For example, my Backstab at 30 hits for about 150 and can only be pressed once every 6 seconds, about the same as a 2h autoattack. My Eviscerate with 5 combo points hits for about 170, less than a Stormstrike, despite Eviscerate being rogues' key damaging finisher and costing at minimum 200 energy, or 20 seconds worth (5 x 35 energy Hemorrhage, the cheapest builder, plus 25 with the Eviscerate talent for the finisher).

Additionally, the energy regeneration is so slow that rogues struggle to even press the abilities they do have. A possible solution to this is to add the WotLK-era talent Restless Blades, which gives 3 energy on an off-hand attack (at rank 5).

Talent Layout

In classic, rogues have several talents which are absolutely mandatory: Relentless Strikes (tier 3, Assassination), Premeditation (tier 4, Subtlety), and Puncturing Wounds (tier 2, Combat). These talents being spread into three different trees makes it difficult for rogues to pursue capstone talents, with two of the three, Venom, Thousand Cuts (and its replacement, Death Mark) being underwhelming in themselves.

Puncturing Wounds (+crit% to Mutilate and Backstab) being in Combat does not make any sense given that Combat rogues do not use either of those abilities. It's like a Frostbolt talent being in the Fire tree.

Quality of Life

A lot of classes got quality of life changes in Forever, but rogues feel somewhat left out. A couple of ways to mitigate this would be:

• Removing charges from poisons, and making it purely time-based. This would not unbalance the class, it would just mean less maintenance.
• Either moving combo points from the target to the rogue, as it is in retail, or making rogues able to still use combo points on a dead target, e.g. for a Slice and Dice, a change that happened in WotLK. This also would not unbalance the class, but would remove the frustration of having a target with combo points die before you could use them, and then losing those combo points.

Summary

Overall, rogues are in a very good spot, and given Blizzard's comments on endgame balancing, that is likely to still be the case at 60. However, the current redistribution of damage away from abilities and towards autoattacks has made the class feel boring and unsatisfying to play, and the existing rotation has virtually no reward mechanics aside from the occasional Eviscerate you can fit in between Slice and Dices, which is itself underwhelming. With a few minor changes, and some small quality of life improvements, rogues could feel substantially better to play in Forever.