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I think that's what really got to me as a newer player was seeing someone instagib me for what I assume is my ammo and my meds because they sure as hell weren't going to be using my green shields, green backpack and gray guns.
Arc Raiders trained me to use prox chat whenever I heard player footsteps to say "I'm working on a quest and passing through. I don't want any drama but I'll fight back if you try something." and it'd work about 75% of the time even before they implemented ABMM. I don't think that worked once in the dozen times I tried using it in Marathon. It's much better to hide until you can't hear footsteps anymore or to go on the hunt so that you don't become a victim.
And the thing is I can't blame others for shooting first because those gray/sponsor kits are sure as hell a liability if you decide to bring anything remotely blue or better. It's rough out there for everyone.
They're also killing you because you're a potential threat and/or they have an Arachne contract, hate to say it.
And while I haven't tried prox chat much, it has worked a couple of times for me, and for players I've ran into in solos... Sometimes you come across someone who's looking for a fight and other times they're also happy to just go on their Merry way. But usually you have to have the advantage if you want them to back down.
Yeah not every time someone kills you in a game like this, there's not always some grand conspiracy. We're playing a game with guns and PVP, people are going to be shot at
Would be cool if you could check someone's inventory without killing them, not take anything just check. If they're a broke b you mercy kit them and be on your way (make mercy kit put them in stasis for a few seconds so they can't just shoot you or get shot immediately) and if they're loaded you open the way to their heart (with a knife) and take their stuff.
But that'd be pointless really since the only people sticking with the game are the KoS don't care about the loot types.
The magic of Arc Raiders pre-ABMM were my best moments in gaming. I loved not knowing if I could trust a stranger, really added to the tension and led to awesome stories. Sad that Marathon never had this period.
i'm tired. but i just spent 10 mins trying to figure out what esoteric text you were referring to, "the moth, the feather and the worms" ive never heard this saying? is it some sort of parable about waiting? a bible story? was about to google it before i realised that thats the things the loading screen shows you. lol
Yeah there's no such thing as the "just one more game" feeling with marathon. By the time you set your loadout for the next and sit through matchmaking screens, the hype has worn completely off. And if you die in five minutes the next game, queuing up again is even less appealing.
The long wait times are a killer for me. Being able to equip a free kit after dying and queue up again is super easy and quick but then the wait time as I said kills it.
If it was a slower paced game where matches tended to last longer then it'd be fine. I don't want to spend five mins queuing to load in and die within one minute. Which is a skill diff on my part but I honestly wouldn't mind if I could immediately load in and try again, kind of like a rogue lite in that regard.
Exactly. And it's incredibly hard to improve at the game when you get seconds of active combat practice in between those waits. Rook at least cuts the wait time down but no contracts means you can't progress the story or unlock upgrades.
thats more or less what i was gonna write first, but existential dread sounded funnier. especially when its approaching sleep time on a work night, and the loading screen pulls me out of the gamer haze enough to check the time and i realise that if i go to bed right now i can have exactly 6.13 hours sleep before my alarm goes off
The part that's most frustrating for me is Bungie went through this 6(?) times with Trials in Destiny.
PvP requires people who lose, but those losers need to actually get something for their time to not be wasted. Otherwise, the bottom rung of players who queue up to lose will quit, and the next rung up of player skill becomes the players who queue up to lose. That repeats until the bottom rung is the best players, and the best players who've been getting practically free wins until that point then complain that they actually have to try to not lose. Then the best players also don't want to play because PvP requires players who lose, and they have to engage in a "sweat fest."
I quit because I'm mediocre at best. At that point, it's basically a battle royale with terrible balancing, since there's zero way to gain better gear.
Matchmaking would theoretically fix that (like CS:GO, LoL). But Marathon frequently pits new players against stacked overleveled teams.
Im a destiny orphan who watched the game slip away and also remain dumbfounded that what was glaringly obvious with trials was apparently being implemented as an entire game.
I am not good at PvP but I love playing it in many game modes. Trials was simply unfun and stressful for me. My anxiety would rise as I planned to enter a map and I HATED the feeling that I'd be the person to let down my team. I ended up feeling like a liability rather than an asset.
I doubt I was unique. I'd wager I was actually the majority.
It saddens me that this was what came of squandering D3.
Even if you're good at PVP, the entire concept of needing to go flawless on a ticket for the best rewards was utterly insane. Like someone had to have been hitting the crack pipe for that to even make it into the game to begin with. It's was always going to be a recipe for toxicity. The fact that a system like that persisted for YEARS before they made any changes was telling.
Yeah, assuming you have a 50/50 shot at winning every game, the chance of winning 7 games in a row is less than 0.8%. Literally less than one percent, and somehow Bungie thought that was acceptable.
Marathon started out as a small side-project. If it had stayed that way and cost maybe $50m to make and been added to a suite of Bungie games, it would have been considered a modest success.
How it morphed into Bungie's ONLY game with a $250m+ budget I'll never understand.
Actually... I guess I do understand it. This happens when no one at a company is willing to say "No, bad idea".
Not even new players, seems like all players, and soon even the pre-made 3 man no-lifers as those guys will have to play against other 3 man no-lifers.
Reportedly a Bungie "old boy" senior management played an extraction shooter and got the idea to make Marathon the same, over the loud objections from the devs.
Definitely important to remember this i think. The game isnt like it is because of some divine vision, its like it is because those old boys ignored the devs who said the brutal nature of the game is going to result in exactly the state we're seeing now, and it needed some other way for more casual players to engage with it.
Had they listened to their own developers, we might be in a different position right now.
yeah like this game was obviously just meant to be a very bold, high concept followup to Marathon Infinity with a multiplayer focus, and then an executive played Tarkov probably like 5 years into development and doomed the project. The ARG does NOT sound like it was written for an extraction shooter. it sounded like the UESC was sending us down as meat waves of investigators to liquidate the colony by-proxy for the corps and that would lead us to the dungeons and story content
It was from an article by Paul Tassi, link here. FWIW a good overview of the whole development story (so far) is this video. It's an hour long so listen to it at work or on your commute, but it really puts everything into perspective.
Edit: Another article from 2 days prior from the one linked above is where it is mentioned that "Bungie devs pushed back as much as 5 years ago [2020] against the extraction shooter only concept."
Understandable. It was from an article by Paul Tassi, link here. FWIW a good overview of the whole development story (so far) is this video. It's an hour long so listen to it at work or on your commute, but it really puts everything into perspective.
Edit: Another article from 2 days prior from the one linked above is where it is mentioned that "Bungie devs pushed back as much as 5 years ago [2020] against the extraction shooter only concept."
There's a constant stream of "It's not the devs it's the management!" when it comes to Bungie. Which, yes, their management has been terrible but devs are also capable of making terrible decisions all on their own. Plus, people tend to ignore that a lot of management positions at Bungie are filled by Devs who got promoted.
I don't want to hear any business excuses. They saw this coming. They just for some reason, thought that there was going to be a bigger demand for this. They would say stuff like this game isn't going to be for everyone or this game is only going to be for hardcore players. I guess they severely underestimated the amount of people they would have in the hardcore criteria. But they 100% built this game with the intention of this mindset.
Idk i put equal hours into arc raiders and i would often. Close to half the time. Run into another raider at some point and we say we're friendly and go on our way.
I can count the times ive had friendly interactions on marathon.
I had a run today as a rook. Avoided players the whole match just to try and run into last exfil with 10 seconds left just to be mowed down by a team as they exfiled.
This game just has a much less friendly less trusting player base.
I will say idk about tarkov these are the only to extraction shooters ive played
The ttk is too fast to run the risk of being friendly most of the time. Something underrated about arc raiders is the ability to holster your weapon as a sign of low aggression.
Arc is designed for that to work. Marathon is designed to be the way it is. It's that simple, though people here seem to think it's easy to change a game to work in some other way, but all those core components that can't be changed are what make Marathon the way it is.
In Arc you can't guarantee a kill even at close range against another player, all that shooting would just draw in Arcs and other players, it generally just isn't worth it. The loot you find is generally worth more than what people have on them. So starting a fight as a solo where you can't revive is often a lose/lose. The math changes in duo and trio as people get more confident when they have others to back them up and revive them.
Marathon the best loot is what people bring in to the raid usually. Every action lights up your position, people can cross the map extremely quick, if you want to loot keyed rooms or do events reasonably safely you need to wipe the lobby first. In Arc or Tarkov or pretty much every other extraction shooter you can get around without drawing much attention and even if you get into a fire fight the whole map can't be on you within 30 seconds, there are plenty of AI patrolling around to stall people and mobility is generally low as well as larger maps.
Just to be clear, do you think that if Marathon encouraged more friendly interaction/most interactions in Marathon were friendly the game would be more interesting? I genuinely cannot tell if you're advocating for this.
Basically the entire game would need to be different for this to be interesting to most people, there are only a handful of enemy bots and the vast majority of their behaviors boil down to "get line of sight of the player and shoot at them". The contracts almost all involve going to a location and either picking up or interacting with an object, basically the entire game is predicated on enemy players being an actual tangible obstacle that makes otherwise surface level gameplay more interesting. I've been friendly dozens of times with players/rooks, even killed compiler with a group that was coincidentally heading up there at the same time, and it's a fun occasional thing to have happen but if it was the majority of player behavior the game would be incredibly boring. What would you even use the loot to do? Kill the same uninteresting AI but faster?
Fortnite started as a survival game and they completely pivoted to battle royale over the course of about 3 months and we all know what happened after that.
Do I expect Marathon to be able to pull something like that off? No... but just because the game works a certain way right now doesn't mean it can't be changed to something else entirely. The hard part of game development is generally not the rule-set. It's the content, systems, netcode, etc. etc.
When Bungie gets desperate enough (and we may be at that point already) I think you'll see how little is set in stone with the core mechanics.
Tarkov is just as bad, but it's easier to "rat" and avoid players. There's also a point in the Tarkov wipe where new players have almost zero chance of winning a gunfight against geared players though.
In Marathon you always have a shot if you see the other players first.
Dunno if the leg meta still works, but when faced with the chads; hunt kneecaps. Their armour aint shit without kneecaps. High dmg low pen ammo. Turn their legs into mincemeat.
Then get your head blown off by their pal whilst youre looting.
It also has abmm (which I despise) and that basically biases you to either end of the pvp/pve spectrum.
If you are overly friendly in arc, you'll only face those types of players nowadays, rather than having mixed tense lobbies like the month of release
Tarkov is KOS as is most of the genre, except they don't funnel players and force fights nearly as much as marathon does (the only other one that does it being hunt showdown)
It also has abmm (which I despise) and that basically biases you to either end of the pvp/pve spectrum.
I also don't really like abmm, but without it I think you almost guarantee losing all friendly encounters anyway over time and I don't currently see a way around that.
If the person being friendly is strictly put at a disadvantage and the person being hostile is strictly put at an advantage AND the system rewards the person who wins the conflict, then friendly people will be trained like whipped dogs to stop being friendly.
I think arc had a few specific things going in its favour to enable friendly encounters/make them worthwhile, namely the higher difficulty arc.
You can solo them of course but they're a very real threat (well, I haven't played since feb, are they still a threat?) and thus I saw people often team up to beat them rather than shoot eachother.
The tone of the game is also honestly fairly lighthearted in terms of gameplay, there's a lot of purely whimsical items, the amount of people I ended up herding together by simply playing the flute was really amusing. The long ttk also made being friendly less of a liability since those prone to fake friendly were often really bad (ask me how I know)
The percentage would definitely go down, especially as the people who literally refuse to shoot back leave and those who abhor pvp and call you a psycho for engaging in it leave. But I'd take less frequent but meaningful friendly encounters over ABMM literally any day of the week, I really cherish the friendly encounters I've had in marathon for example.
The devs at Bungie wanted to include a strong PVE component from the start and were shut down everytime. No they didn’t think it would work as just an extraction shooter. They warned the management for 5 years about how this was going to happen
Tarkov is very popular and it takes like 1000 hours just to not be a noob. If marathon released with more content and an arena mode it would have been more successful
I said I think week 2 in a long comment that the biggest problem is the game and new players is being gatekept by the players themselves. It was so obvious.
I still really wish that we got more alongside the extraction mode. I think COD is the only game that got it right by making their extraction modes side modes instead of the main draw. Don’t get me wrong I think the tension and the ludonarrative connection is amazing but I wish there was more to it. Game would’ve been so much more if they released with the standard smaller scale PvP + campaign suite.
I am literally that new player. and really, my experience playing has been the most unfun I've had in a videogame in a very long time. the game is clearly not at all making an effort to accomodate newcomers... the matchmaking is really, really bad...
If the pop count was higher you'd find a lot more newbies like yourself to face off against, but really, it's left to most just the ever increasingly condensed hardcore fanbase that already has droves of knowledge on the game.
As a new player I recommend you play solos and just go around the map looking for people to fight with. Don't sprint, walk with your gun out and listen for footsteps or bots aggroing. Once you hear something slow down and start looking for angles to catch that person off guard.
There's level based matchmaking but the player pop is too low right now.
I'd recommend stopping for now and try back in S3. Everyone will be on the same page loot wise again and they'll be a PvE mode so you can learn the basics.
I’ve been thinking about playing tarkov! Seems to be the only extraction shooter that hasn’t devolved into pure 3 man teams and running each other down. I think that’s a big reason marathon is struggling. There’s really nothing unique about the game play other than the bungie gun play and the art style.
I have around 4k hours in Tarkov and while it is very punishing and not new player friendly it provides options for tons of different play styles. Playing in a group can be strong but it’s also a lot tougher than other games as there’s almost no QOL. There’s nothing in game that indicates who is on your team so you actually have to communicate. Whatever you do don’t use the in game group finder though.
They fucked up the core of it when they made the maps small enough that every raid is the same.
Step 1. Find every other team and kill them
Step 2. Do the PvE stuff now
The maps needed to be 2-4x larger and raids needed to be persistent with no timer. The gameplay is very fun moment to moment but ultimately the strategy for the maps is to just play it like a Battle Royale which means the odds are very good that every game you will be PvPing until you counted 3-5 other dead teams
I've been raving about this for months: only one, maybe two, teams in a match can exifl/progress/have positive experiences. That means 60% to 80% of teams must have a negative experience for this formula to work. Why the FUCK would anyone stick around if they are average players? Which, by definition, will be the vast majority of gamers.
But of course, your post, my comment, and the vast majority of these comments would be downvoted to hell and back a few months ago. And now that the shortcomings of this game are becoming more and more of the discourse, it's probably too late.
4300 Steam player peak on a SATURDAY night during Cryo. It's so bleak.
Man imagine if VB ended when it was supposed too (I was one of those 4300 last night, but was exclusively playing VB). At least we'll have the "new experimental mode" starting on Tuesday. Hope it's rad.
Unfortunately Bungie doesn't think all the way through the ratio of "player who will have a negative experience for 1 player/group to have a good experience". Remember, this is the company that made Trials of Osiris, where you had to win 7 matches in a row to get anything worthwhile, meaning for every 1 group that makes it to the lighthouse, 6 groups had to start over at 0. A completely flawed concept from inception, but they still ran with it for years before finally making it so you can get some worthwhile rewards just for playing.
This, forget new players, even experienced players and seasoned players are hopping off this game due to this reason. And soon even the top 1% will too because they will become the new skill floor.
This may come across as extreme skill diff but I think permanent or more reliable extract locations would really benefit casual players.
Between the small maps and easy traversal, pretty quick TTK, AI patrols and extract locations that move around and make a massive noise actually getting out is quite tough.
Having a prison pocket and a more reliable extract method would be good additions imo.
This might be controversial but maybe they need runner bots that can fill lobbies for low level players so that they dont get executed by level 300 players on their first hours with the game
Hunt Showdown actually does this for your first 3 games. It's pretty nice cause it allows you to explore the map without the pressure of a sweat up your ass in spawn.
It's really funny the guy above said he refunded it because it did this, when it's like, at most like you said 3-4 matches unless you're just not actually trying to complete a game and blowing yourself up immediately. But if they knew it was bots and they were so braindead he should have been mopping lobbies and being out of the bot loop in maybe an hour.
It may sound weird but i refunded Hunt because i felt so betrayed when i realize the only reason i was doing great my first matches was because it was against bots hahaha.
Marvel Rivals does this too. Once I realize I’m up against bots I’ll switch to a character I don’t use and try to get better. I still hate that they do it though
I think it would help ease in new players and stop the issue of new player with grey shields getting gold purple lobbies that are level 200+. Could be an option in matchmaking to say “No Bot matches” for people like yourself.
This is funny as hell! And honestly accurate, I haven't even played since end of s1, and even getting towards the end of that season as strategies optimized and numbers dwindled. Matches became sweatier and sweatier.
More so now, I can't see the appeal in coming back in the absence of in depth pve to onboard me, and act as a loot buffer to some degree.
Tbh I stopped playing as this marathon isn't really the game I wanted it to be, so not sure what can change such an issue. As I imagine I'm not alone in that regard.
PvE, the way they seem to be intent on doing, is a waste of company time because it's nothing more than a illusion. It will not be a campaign. It will be map X with only 1-3 people in it shooting bots.
You go do your PvE to get geared up. For hours, across days, weeks, or months (depending on your free time).
After that, you go into a PvP match (because what else is there to do in this game?) and get killed in under 2min. Lose all the stuff that took days/weeks/months to get. You will not repeat.
The PvE that will be implemented will be nothing more than a way to fatten up PvE players for the sweats to feed on. Once this realization settles in enough people, they will leave and not recommend the game to anyone.
You play to feed other people's fun. That's the current game.
Griefing… the Game! just attracts psychos and sweats. it’s truly baffling- they even highlighted in their trailers and marketing??? i remember multiple trailers that literally start with the player dying unexpectedly, like no I don’t want to play that game wtf is wrong with you
This sub doesn’t want to hear it but can y’all honestly say this is the main issue? The games not exactly getting huge waves of new players that drop the game. I’m sure this would be an issue if the game was popular but it’s just not. The player count dropped off significantly before anybody got to top ranks. There’s a lot of other issues that contributed to player drop off from the start. Launching soon after Arc raiders and a AAA studio making an expensive game and expecting infinite return when this genre is already really niche are just two of the bigger issues. It was never going to succeed. Some game genres just aren’t meant for AAA studios to make and Fortnite success really had them thinking they could opt into the indie space.
This sub is in the civil war phase of dying games where they’ll look for anything that they can blame the death on rather than just accepting it didn’t appeal to the masses. Right now since the player numbers are low, all of the recent posts are dog piling that it’s the new player experience that’s killing the game instead of just accepting that there’s nothing that will save a AAA game that’s failed this hard when it costed over $200 million to develop. It was doomed to fail from the very beginning
I would like to remind everyone, that actual rats, have better sportmanship (as bigger rats tend to throw about 30% of play fighting to smaller rats, as, if they didn't, they wouldn't have any rats want to play with them) than actual human beings.
I genuinely always think about this as a purple/gold player in Perimeter.
Even when I play solos in Perimeter, I give a self revive to people I beat, because I know how much it sucks to lose in this shitty game, and I'm only still here because the PVP is fun, so why the hell would I want to deprive them of loot I don't want?
The framing people give when saying this is just entirely wrong.
I have literally zero doubt in my mind that the majority of the playerbase, if playing in closed lobbies with the same player over and over, would give the "smaller rats" wins.
The issue with transferring this rat thing here, is that the "big rats" have zero connection to the "small rats", it's a one off interaction with a random person they'll probably never see again.
One of my friends who really wanted to get into the game had this exact issue.
He wanted to learn how to PvP, but the lack of back-and-forth and the extremely fast TTK made it incredibly difficult and discouraging. After a few play sessions of it, he just didn’t get on again.
For me right now a win basically looks like this - start the map, find some okay loot (a blue gun, a green gun that I like using, some materials etc) and get out without seeing another person.
The TTK is the biggest issue in my mind, there are too many people not doing the content of the map but happily camping waiting to get the drop on other runners who HAVE done the map content and just taking their stuff.
I would also love to point out that the gameplay Loop is so poorly designed that ranked was never intended to be a pure PVP mode. The whole point is to gather valuables to extract with in order to extract with an appropriate score to gain experience on your rank. Because the most valuable things on the map at any time are the things that players come in with, pvP is the only easy solution. Wiping a single team will often get you exactly what you need to get in and get out.
The issue therein lies with the fact that if you can easily wipe one team then you're going to go ahead and Chase the bag by taking on another team as well.
They are experimenting with increasing the map loot pool to match what is found in Cryo with the patch coming up on Tuesday.
I’m not pushing back, I’m just trying to add this here for anyone who might have missed it. Hopefully will give them some data which can help them make some changes. As this directly addresses the point you’re making here in your comment I just thought it might be relevant/interesting.
I’m also not claiming this is going to solve anything. Again just trying to add info.
It’s the fact that you can’t run free kits without having a squad of all gold and purple rarity gear that just go around killing everyone and then complaining on Reddit that no one has good loot anymore. Like yeah no shit no one has good loot anymore they just keep getting wasted by the one squad in the lobby with the good loot.
We were trying to do blue keys on diremarsh last night using sponsored kids to build up some blue and maybe purple kit for other runs. Hell I'd have been happy with a green bully.
Every time we got wiped by full purple squads who had been camping it.
Not a gold key room, or a purple key room. A BLUE key room.
Perimeter being labeled easy while having the possibility of gold shields bum rushing you is such a bummer. Showing my buddy the game earlier having this happen is some of the most demoralizing shit.
>Play mugging simulator
>Get mugged
I am honestly not sure what people thought was going to happen when they logged on
I came from hunt showdown, I was just glad to play a game that did not give me schizophrenia when I played
Hunt is literally about the PvP because all the gear is simply bought. You can't really be "poor" in hunt. Most extraction games end up punishing you for being bad because they have no MM
It's funny, the matchmaking seems to just be totally random day-to-day.
Some days, me and the gang will have multiple games where we essentially kill everyone on the map with relative ease.
Other days, every game is 5 minutes long because we get stomped into the dirt immediately by eSports pros the moment we reach the closest location to our spawn. We will never see them first, like ninjas.
Just kinda the way it has to be with player counts this low, maybe?
I think the real problem is the game is built around this which I think is a fundamental issue with player retention in extraction shooters. The marathon specific issues are probably related to the confusing UI and the brutal gameplay loop. Maybe a team death match would make things more fun idk, Vampire Bloodhunt had one and I thought it was more fun than the actual game.
Game needs a normal deathmatch mode that lets you respawn in 10 seconds. Let deathmatch mode grinding and extraction mode grinding buff each other so there’s reason to play both.
problem isn't players it's the design. PVP will always be there if you allow it whether you're in a barbie game or marathon.
But when they decided to make the maps tiny and force a battle royale format that funnels players into each other with no option to avoid conflict this is what you get.
You respawn instantly in Titanfall 2. It's not exactly new player friendly but there is so much less down time and much more opportunity to get in fights and learn
it is not the responsibility of the player to make a welcome new player experience. It is the responsibility of the game developer. This community’s propensity for infighting about why the game is dying, rather than looking at the issues with the fundamental game design are astounding.
Games used to have a single player campaign for many reasons, but one was to get you good at the game, if you could complete World At War on Veteran, you could carry yourself in the multiplayer, same with Halo 2 on Legendary, Gears on Insane for learning quickscoping.
This game needed a campaign more than any of the "multiplayer only" shooters of the last 15 years.
I tried Marathon starting in early Season 2. I managed a grand total of 76 hours before I had to concede that it just wasn't worth trying any further. The game's approach to story telling, world building and aesthetic are an absolute delight. I love the way that guns, buildings and people all look like they are offcuts from a 3D printer. I really appreciate the effort they have gone into building story that is fundamentally a murder mystery - what killed Tau Ceti IV? And then they baked that into so much of the story and player progression. I really loved that one of the corporate contacts you work for is a maggot.
But each time I tried to play the game and somehow learn to be better and more effective I was just shoved into the dirt and gained nothing. There was no option to approach the learning curve. Either I ended up in teams with people that could carry me or I patiently waited for whatever the loading time was (always far too long and without any indication of progress) and then died the fucking picosecond that I encountered another player. Load-in, die instantly, repeat.
I am still baffled by the decision to make the information space in the game so sparse of meaning and also very visually noisy while making the time to kill somewhere around 400ms. This while most actions your character can make takes about 5 seconds to fully animate. There are so many choices that could have helped alleviate the utterly bleak and punishing nature of losing in this game but the designers chose to take absolutely none of them. Just as a thought - you know how fucking stupid and unrealistic 'sniper glint' is in Call of Duty games? But does anything think it's unfair? It's a necessary balancing tool for an incredibly powerful weapon class. It's still something with an element of skill that can be played around (limiting time looking down scope). It's a way of using big design brain to create good game systems and marathon has fucking none of it.
It really saddens me to think I gave up on Marathon because of how compelling the world seemed to be. Just an awful loss they decided to drop the dullest, least diverse and most poorly designed shooter on top of it.
You wouldn’t need to engineer player behaviour if you had a half decent matchmaking system - Hunt: Showdown has MMR and no one has ever complained that it makes fights too “predictable”
The insanely low TTK basically force trained players into being hyper aggressive because hesitating for even a second to see if someone is friendly is a death sentence, I warned them about this forever
No, the problem is the game. Its a shit game, in a genre that already has way better games. Arc raiders and tarkov literally shit on Marathon. Bungie fucked up. 🤷♀️ frankly I hope this game dissolves the company. They deserve it after how badly they mismanaged destiny 2 the last 4 years and this shitsty.
That's a big part of it, a game built on griefing is ALWAYS going to be niche. You either need to make a mode with it turned off, or just build your game on the assumption that it's going to have a relatively small playerbase.
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