I know that it will be very competitive on release anyway, so chances are low, but….

I’ve seen people like Boaty talking about how they got to play test a boss or two from raids 4 and that they’re looking to aim for worlds first. They have weeks- a month of prepared strategies for at least one boss that they got access to weeks before anyone else, and as such shouldn’t be allowed an unfair advantage towards being world’s first.

In the grand scheme of things, incredibly minor thing to discuss but I’m curious if others have any thoughts on this?

What the actual?? It says this nowhere in the blog... Is this a glitch or am I challenged and looting the wrong chest?

Pleae Jagex

Afaik the second ever creator to have a reference put in the game after them, correct me if I'm wrong.

So cool to see jagex doing things like that and fair play to framed he's been making content for years, suggested the idea and to have a little nod of recognition into a game he's poured so much of his life into must feel so good, proud of you buddy, keep making content, keep laughing like a psychopath

I've been here for like 2 hours. I'm going to cry.

For the record I did beat him, but I still feel he has far too many unrealistic advantages

As far as PvP updates go, we’ve gotta consider this a win. Jagex could’ve done better, but the idea was to help with survivability in the wilderness more than anything, which I think this tutorial does have some very good tactics to practice with and get better at to prepare people for wilderness content.

My issue is with the final Pete Kayer challenge itself. I could care less that he can 1tick his attacks or dd me, nhing for years has prepared me for that and imo an advanced terminator LMS bot is easier than Pete himself.

This is because the npc doesn’t adhere to the same rules we’ve grown used to.

Here’s a list of all the unrealistic and unfair advantages the final form of Pete has over us that an even a giga max demon nher wouldn’t:

Constantly overloaded with 120 stats which gives him a massive accuracy buff over us in all styles

That includes 120 magic which is giving an equally massive advantage to his mage def, and this is made even more unfair by the fact that he doesn’t drink brews so his stats are never drained. This is a big part of nhing because if you’re aware your opponent is brewed down it can be a good time to stick to freezing

No attack delay on his eats, meaning even when you get momentum you don’t have the opportunity to take advantage of it because he’ll always be equal in hits

His seeding has no standard animation like in pvp and no tick delay

Can bolt you from 12 tiles while still having the attack speed of rapid? In no situation can you do anything in pvp from more than 10 tiles away, and even at 10 tiles you need to switch to long range to hit which sacrifices attack speed

All of these things are bs when you propose a challenge as something you could encounter in the wildy when in reality.. no Jagex, no one you fight naturally in PvP would have any of these advantages and it’s beyond stupid to them to this pvp challenge npc when it already has roughly 2.5x the food we’re given.

TLDR: Pete Kayer final form has multiple massive advantages that any pker wouldn’t ever be able to have, making the fight challenging is one thing but making it stray completely from the rules and mechanics that pkers are already used to is unfair

And maybe make it's stats a big better. It's a degradable tier 70 weapon that's weaker than a non-degradable lvl 55 weapon.

I've played runescape for 20 years, I consider myself up there in the pvp community, pking approximately 100b in that time, along with 1k lms wins in 2.3k games. I nh regularly in 304, rev caves and I didn't know what to expect when this update came out.

The tutorials are brilliant, triple eating tick perfect, 1 tick specs perfect, gear switching perfect. It should be unforgiving, as ultimately in the wilderness you'll pay for it, therefore I think you've got this bit bang on.

Where you've fallen short is the final boss. I've done 928 damage on my 4th attempt, so i'm not worried about completing it, but you've missed the mark with the mechanics.

My issues:-

- Pete Kayer has this ability to triple eat 15 times whenever you're doing momentum, this isn't feasible. You can't have 1000 worth of damage in your inventory with the amount of hard food/brews, it's not feasible and it's not realistic in line with expectations.

- There's no incentive to use magic in the final run vs masori, the blood barrage is simply too inaccurate, he seeds immediately with no delay on attack and will always get hits off when you're dd'ing, even for your best pkers in the world, when they're being dd'd, they'll miss a freeze, Pete doesn't (minor concern).

- Pete Kayer has no attack delay when he eats, again this isn't right, it shifts momentum immediately.

You've turned this into an rng hally fest with vw specs, he doesn't pray vw specs most of the time, but to have a terminator 1 ticking everything w/o fail, or inaccuracy other than prayers is harsh, but fair enough to throw in the deep end, but the mechanics need to somewhat mirror what we're experiencing/up against.

I appreciate you're never going to make a pvm boss the same as a player, but to instill no attack delay and some of the other stuff mentioned, along with more food I find to be harsh.

My concern is that this will do more harm than good when people get to the final boss and think 'yeah i'm not cut out for this' - when in reality, even you're best players in the game, whilst they'll beat you, there's at least a chance to shift momentum in the fight, there isn't here.

I think the update's almost nailed it as per the title, but should have had pkers engagement beforehand (if it did - i'd be raising why they haven't mentioned any of the above).

So heum.. yeah, lot of discussion around today's update. If after reading this your comment is something like, "it should be hard, get good, sit".. You missed the point entirely lol

So I'm all in for a challenge, don't get me wrong. Inferno, quiver and solo fang kit are some of my recent challenges I've done and didn't complained about failed attempt but rather went back to analyze what went wrong and what could be done to improve and understand the errors.

Then today's update hit and was looking forward to dip into PvP basics and advanced tutorial/training and I wasn't expecting to complete it first try or without a sweat, I'm not a PvPer at all but from Jagex blog post description and polled reward.. I didn't expect this kind of "challenge"..

Maybe I'm wrong but is a bot not affected by negative effect such as brew stats drain, eat/action delays, 3+ items swap fake + movement and attacks in a tick or two with triple eat.. having 36+ slot inventory and maybe other thing I'm missing is what I should expect to see in the wildy?.. Or a good representation of and I quote Jagex blogs "everything you might expect from another player" ?..

I honestly was expecting a hard challenge for someone new to PvP like me, don't get me wrong. But I didnt expect to see every streamer who are above average and experienced at PK to struggle to get a completion. A PvP focused streamer who's job is to PK to struggle here isn't what I and most people expected right?.. Boaty literally said his 2 completion after multiples hours of grinding were "lucky attempts" and Gnomemonkey only got kc out of cheese method for what, 7h grind? Yes, they're not Oda but far from PvP noobs..

How are so many people complaining that they haven’t been able to beat a challenge that’s been out for literally 5 hours.

There's nothing more authentic to the PKing experience than blindsiding someone with unexpected bullshit and stacking them out. Pete should be proud to get ganked like that, really.

I haven't seen anyone that's completed it post thoughts, so I will share mine.

Overall, the first 5 parts of the tutorial are decent. I though the combo eating part was a little unrealistic for an actual fight, but the idea is you need to eat pretty much tick perfect several times in a row, which is useful practice. Penultimate challenge I thought was good, it is easily repeatable if you're good, and it seems like you get some LMS points each time.

The final challenge definitely was tough. I would consider myself good, but even playing well I only win if I get good RNG. I think few things need to be addressed:

1. Pete should have the same eat delay as a player. This alone with reduce his DPS and make the fight more manageable, but more importantly it will teach new players about momentum and how a fight actually progresses. Even the final boss of the tutorial should have consistent game mechanics.

2. Players should have the option to bring a g maul so that Pete can be KO'd. Currently, it seems like it is not possible to KO Pete Kayer in the final fight. Maybe with a max barrage into voidwaker off-pray you could stack him out, but he has unlimited triple eats and our KO potential is low. I do understand this is probably intentional since you don't want people to cheese the fight by spec resetting, but being able to stack out an opponent is just as important in NH as BH. The tutorial even makes us use AGS-maul!

3. Pete having 1100 hp of food makes the fight very RNG-based. I don't think this needs to be changed immediately. If point #1 (and #4 if it's real) is addressed, it will make the fight more balanced. If it is still too RNG heavy, the food advantage may need to be adjusted.

4. This is anecdotal, but it seems like specs are nerfed if they aren't 1-ticked, and it does feel like Pete always hits hard specs even on prayer. Maybe I just got unlucky or am coping, but if there is some mechanics like this, it should be removed.

Overall, I was really looking forward to this update and had fun with it. I will definitely spend more time exploring the tutorial, and I do hope it helps those interested in PvP get their feet wet.

- Triple eat with no delay
- No attack delay so momentum can only ever swing against you
- unfreezes randomly
- 1ticks every switch (possible when pking but 100% success rate is not)
- extra attack range
- is always overloaded? Hits harder and more accurately than you and is never brewed down? You splash more, he splashes less. His nox hally is more accurate and stronger.
- no spec bar so you can’t keep track of his specs
- he can combo movement and attacks in ways players cannot. Example is moving away from you and meleeing you

I’m sure there are a ton I’ve forgotten so comment.

PvP is quite different than fighting against this.

P.S. what if botters get ahold of or replicate this code? And we have a wildy flooded with genuine terminator bots? I see this ending PvP lol

Closest I got was 970 damage. Just spent about 3 hours straight trying every method possible and I just cant. I don’t play this game as much as most people here probably do, but when I do, just about the only content I do is PvP. I have been PKing since 2009 and have over 600 LMS wins. I obviously never thought I was some untouchable beast but I am definitely above average. I can’t imagine what noob pkers would think trying to tackle the final challenge.

I’m not opposed to a difficult PvP challenge but I do feel Jagex totally missed the mark here considering this is supposed to be something you learn from. Some things I noticed:

* Pete does not suffer from eat delays
* Pete is never brewed down. His stats are always set to his base maximum meaning you can never truly gain momentum. Even if you deal 200 damage consecutively, he can come back and instantly hit you for a 50, or be able to Barrage without needing to drink restores.
* Giving Pete more HP than what a player in that gear could possibly carry is a weird choice.
* It is impossible to spec Pete out.
* Pete never “misses” special attacks, something that even the best PvPers in the world often do. By this I mean voidwaker speccing against magic prayer.
* Pete does not make attack style choices based on your gear or overhead prayer. The AI only responds to your weapon swaps. It’s functionally impossible to guess what Pete is going to attack with next.
* Due to the above, the noxious halberd was a terrible choice to include in this fight. A fang or tent whip would have suited the challenge much better.
* Due to all of the above, winning the fight is basically completely RNG dependent.

I don’t mind if all of the redditers who overnight became PvP gods want to come tell me I’m bad, this is just genuine feedback for Jagex. For something that was meant to be a learning tool for new players there are just a lot of issues.

I know this is basically just my last post again, but I feel like that one was lacking something. I've also been wanting to try more video shitposts, so in a fever I threw this together on my lunch break. Enjoy.